Who wrote the 4 gospels of the New Testament and when?

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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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I understand exactly what he ment,what I'm saying is in the scripture it contradicts itself and I've repeatedly been told to refer to scripture when I've raised a question befor on this site,just like I've been told all scripture is inspired so can't be wrong or contradict itself,when I then point this out I get told rubbish like jesus wasn't speaking with critical people like me in mind!!!!!!! You can't have it always it's either correct or not no grey areas
Jesus was speaking to honest men open to the truth. He did not dream that awkward, godless people would try to twist His words. The Scripture is correct but it has to be read sensibly. If you WANT to find supposed contradictions you will find them. Its called playing with words.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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i said the apostles didn't date the miracles that jesus performed,these were major events. I know they somtimes mention "in the time of " but this doesn't even specify the year! A king could reign for 30 or 40yrs,it's very vague,show me in scripture where an actual date is put on an appearance or miracle carried out by Jesus!?
Jesus did not perform miracles in order to impress people, or in order that they might believe. HE HAD NO CONFIDENCE IN PEOPLE WHO BELIEVED BECAUSE OF MIRACLES (John 2.23-25). So why should anyone think it necessary to date them?

You just have a bee in your bonnet!!!!
 
Aug 29, 2015
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As all the evidence point to them having been written by men who DID SO on the basis of eyewitness testimony your opinion does not really count for much at all.

If dates had been seen as so important any forger would have ensured that he put in dates. So your argument is nullified.
That's actually a very good point,because there are no dates we assume them to be original because a forger would probably put in specific dates to make the forgery seem better and more accurate!!!!! It's a strange logic but I get it,anyway,no more arguing,I'll keep up my search,god bless you
 
Aug 29, 2015
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Jesus did not perform miracles in order to impress people, or in order that they might believe. HE HAD NO CONFIDENCE IN PEOPLE WHO BELIEVED BECAUSE OF MIRACLES (John 2.23-25). So why should anyone think it necessary to date them?

You just have a bee in your bonnet!!!!
no bees I can assure you,just curious,I'll keep researching,god bless you
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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I have been doing some research and it appears that the four gospels were not written by anyone who actually knew Jesus,the earliest,Mark was apparently written somewhere between 60 and 80 years after Jesus's death,Mathew between 70 and 100,Luke and John after 93yrs of His death and all in Greek,not Hebrew and not by jews. What I can't understand is why the Appostles themselves didn't actually write anything down or did they?
The good news (gospel) have been given orally first. God incarnated in the man Jesus Christ to bring salvation to the world, to re-establish the communion God had with men before the fall and to help men grow into His likeness, to bring men to holiness and to perfection: a process that never ends. And this is being done through church (community of people united by the Holy Spirit).

Jesus Christ never asked His Apostles and disciples to go an write down about Him. He asked them to go and spread the good news to the entire world, to baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. To make people members of His Body (the Church).

The gospels are writings which reflect the beliefs of the Christian churches that already exist. They are not historical manuals. Historical events are being told from the prism of faith. That's why the writers didn't care about the historical accuracy of the detail, but they cared about the accuracy of the message. The message is not being hindered in any way by the imperfection of historical details. The gospels are written by the church for the church, not for future modern historians and academics.
 
Aug 29, 2015
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Jesus was speaking to honest men open to the truth. He did not dream that awkward, godless people would try to twist His words. The Scripture is correct but it has to be read sensibly. If you WANT to find supposed contradictions you will find them. Its called playing with words.
Realy,honest men open to the truth,like judas ? Now your making it up as you go along
 
Aug 29, 2015
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The good news (gospel) have been given orally first. God incarnated in the man Jesus Christ to bring salvation to the world, to re-establish the communion God had with men before the fall and to help men grow into His likeness, to bring men to holiness and to perfection: a process that never ends. And this is being done through church (community of people united by the Holy Spirit).

Jesus Christ never asked His Apostles and disciples to go an write down about Him. He asked them to go and spread the good news to the entire world, to baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. To make people members of His Body (the Church).

The gospels are writings which reflect the beliefs of the Christian churches that already exist. They are not historical manuals. Historical events are being told from the prism of faith. That's why the writers didn't care about the historical accuracy of the detail, but they cared about the accuracy of the message. The message is not being hindered in any way by the imperfection of historical details. The gospels are written by the church for the church, not for future modern historians and academics.
Well that's the best reply I've read,someone prepared to speak sence,that's a very good way to look at the gospels,in this way it's possible to realise that even though there are some contradictions in them,they were written by imperfect men for the church to use as they see fit,I like this view
 
Aug 29, 2015
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Jesus was speaking to honest men open to the truth. He did not dream that awkward, godless people would try to twist His words. The Scripture is correct but it has to be read sensibly. If you WANT to find supposed contradictions you will find them. Its called playing with words.
Realy,I thought Jesus was God so he knows everything that's happend,every thing that will happen,he didn't for see skeptics?
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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Realy,honest men open to the truth,like judas ? Now your making it up as you go along
It is believed that Judas was a zealot because of his surname "the Iscariot" and saw in Jesus Christ the kind of Messiah that would "bring down the government". When he realized he was mistaken about his teacher, he probably felt anger and that's why he betrayed him.

Why Did Judas Betray Jesus?
 
Aug 29, 2015
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It is believed that Judas was a zealot because of his surname "the Iscariot" and saw in Jesus Christ the kind of Messiah that would "bring down the government". When he realized he was mistaken about his teacher, he probably felt anger and that's why he betrayed him.

Why Did Judas Betray Jesus?
so now your presuming to know the mind of a man 2000 yrs ago! Let's just stop this friend,I'm trying to find out who wrote the gospels,when they wrote them,as close as I can get anyway,mostly from non biblical sources as they may be able to be a bit more open minded about it,not being rude but many born again Christians won't have a open conversation for fear of saying somthing against Jesus,I'm just a non church attending Christian looking for answers,mabey I can find references to Jesus and the apostles from non biblical history sources
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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so now your presuming to know the mind of a man 2000 yrs ago!
Judas was a Zealot, Jesus Christ wasn't one. The Zealots had a different agenda than Jesus Christ'.

Why would a zealot follow Jesus Christ? Because he saw in Jesus Christ a zealot. Judas was mistaken, of course.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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I don't presume to know the mind of a man 2000 years ago. I am using the information we have about Judas.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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I'm trying to find out who wrote the gospels,when they wrote them,as close as I can get anyway
It is not known (with the exception of Luke) with certainty who wrote the gospels and if they were not written under pseudonym (a frequent method used at the time through which the one who wrote wanted to give to his writing the vision of an emblematic personality).

These writings have not been written immediately after Christ' ascension. The earliest ones (1 Thessalonians and Mark) were probably written 35-40 years after the events. Before this, the narrations circulated orally, in various versions until Mark (?) decided to make a synthesis of them; he might have used the famous Q source which no one found, but this is just a hypothesis. Luke and Matthew wrote using the text of Mark as source, but independently and with a lot of developments. John is a late writing (like you said) which was written in another context than the first three synoptic gospels.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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It is not known (with the exception of Luke) with certainty who wrote the gospels and if they were not written under pseudonym (a frequent method used at the time through which the one who wrote wanted to give to his writing the vision of an emblematic personality).
how can an anonymous Gospel be written under a pseudonym? It was not in fact a frequent method in 1st century AD and in later centuries was rather the practice of heretics who wanted to bolster up their own teachings with a name.

Why should you think it more likely that Luke wrote Luke than that Mark wrote Mark? Both were unlikely names to add to a Gospel and supported by early tradition. Thus both are almost certainly correct.

There are a number of evidences within John's Gospel that it was written by John. For example he is never referred to by name in the Gospel (an almost inconceivable thing for any other writer to do), and he refers to John the Baptist simply as John, not feeling it necessary to identify him. The writer also had the favoured place (as Jesus' cousin?) at the Last Supper.

These writings have not been written immediately after Christ' ascension. The earliest ones (1 Thessalonians and Mark) were probably written 35-40 years after the events.
It is generally recognised by most scholars that 1 Thessalonians was written around 41 AD.

Before this, the narrations circulated orally,
The stories of Jesus' life, taught in the churches by the Apostles, would take on a fixed form and some of these were probably put into writing very early on to be passed on to other churches. In the early days the churches preferred to hear the accounts of eye-witnesses rather than trust writings which could have come from any source, unless the source was well known. Those accounts would then be passed on in a fixed form which was constantly checked as Apostles visited the churches.

in various versions until Mark (?) decided to make a synthesis of them;
But Papias (who was in a better position to know than us) claimed that Mark went around with Peter and thus wrote down the eyewitness evidence of Peter. 'Oral tradition' is a dangerous idea. Whose oral tradition? The oral tradition of Peter, no doubt coming under the scrutiny of other Apostles, was no doubt of first importance. And that was Mark's source.

he might have used the famous Q source which no one found, but this is just a hypothesis
.

And is now very much questioned.

Luke and Matthew wrote using the text of Mark as source
This is no longer so confidently asserted. There are good grounds for thinking otherwise. Both Matthew and Luke have much independent material and comparison of Matthean speeches with Luke's throws grave doubts on whether they came from the same written source. As a trained recorder it must be seen as extremely likely that Matthew wrote down Jesus' sermons, thus their Aramaic flavour. Luke would have derived his from eyewitnesses during his long periods in Palestine..


John is a late writing (like you said) which was written in another context than the first three synoptic gospels.
There are actually no real grounds for suggesting this. The assumption is usually made because it is seen as 'more spiritual'. But are we really to suggest that anyone was 'more spiritual' than John? Later writers give the impression of being less spiritual. It was clearly written by someone who was in on the disputes with the Pharisees by a man of spiritual bent. There is no justification for making it especially late.

What should be noted is that the Gospels appear to have had their titles from almost the beginning. We must not assume that the early church lived in the dark. THEY KNEW WHO WROTE THE GOSPELS, The titles were probably added by them attached to the papyri and manuscripts so as to show what was written in each document. And the universality of the titles indicates an early date. Thus we have good reason to think they were written by those named. The early church were not gullible.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Judas was a Zealot, Jesus Christ wasn't one. The Zealots had a different agenda than Jesus Christ'.

Why would a zealot follow Jesus Christ? Because he saw in Jesus Christ a zealot. Judas was mistaken, of course.
I think it's the same mistaken view many have of God/Jesus today....... that He came to establish His kingdom through violence.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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I thought the gospel attributed to Luke was the only one scholars believe to be written by Luke.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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There are actually no real grounds for suggesting this. The assumption is usually made because it is seen as 'more spiritual'. But are we really to suggest that anyone was 'more spiritual' than John? Later writers give the impression of being less spiritual. It was clearly written by someone who was in on the disputes with the Pharisees by a man of spiritual bent. There is no justification for making it especially late.
The gospel of John is a proof in itself that it was written in a different context that the other three gospels. It is not seen as "more spiritual", it is seen as theology.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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fair enough MarcR,if you don't want to debate then don't god bless you
I was not suggesting a refusal to debate! I was saying that we are unlikely to change the content of the Gospels by suggesting by suggesting a desire for information which was not included. I also do not think that God considers you qualified to be His editor. (NO DISRESPECT INTENDED!!)
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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This is a fallacious conclusion. Only because it was written late does not mean it wasn't written by John.
Very true! Besides that the arguments for late dating are, for the most part, not based on historical evidence; which, IMO, favors early dating.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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I agree with you Tintin,they would mentioned the fall of the Temple in 70AD,I wonder if they would of included the date of this huge event,actually writing down the Hebrew date that the temple fell? As they didn't write down the dates that Jesus performed miricals I doubt it,even though they knew they were in the company of Jesus the Son of God walking amongst men on earth they didn't write down the date they witnessed His miricals ? Knowhere in ANY of the Gospels do any apostle say somthing like " on the 5th of September in year 30 ( whatever the Hebrew equivalent is ) I witnessed jesus cure a leper " I find this very important,it seems like common sence to me to date things
The Western European practice of keeping journals was virtually unknown before initiated by the Emperor Marcus Aurelius around 158 A.D.

It is totally unreasonable to expect that it would occur to anyone to do that before it was first done.