Who's Lying? God? Or Man?

[kardiaoangelous]

Holiness comes after God picks up an undeserving sinner out of the gutter of life and begins cleaning him up. Again an undeserving sinner...that is what grace is all about.
Most examples you gave were addressed to those already in the Commonwealth of Israel.
Please act like the intelligent person you try to be and stop with the ad hominems.

But of course! And that is why the promises could not be given to the flesh.

Holiness begins by a willing spirit of acceptance through faith and the shed blood of Christ then covers us while we are being made holy and complete in our spirit. Only after that can that regenerated spirit transfer outward to bring our bodies into full subjection to Christ.

What you have said proves why what you believe about the promises being to the flesh is not even possible.

 

[crossnote]

But of course! And that is why the promises could not be given to the flesh.

Holiness begins by a willing spirit of acceptance through faith and the shed blood of Christ then covers us while we are being made holy and complete in our spirit. Only after that can that regenerated spirit transfer outward to bring our bodies into full subjection to Christ.

What you have said proves why what you believe about the promises being to the flesh is not even possible.

Thanks for misquoting me but anyways per another thread our conversation is done.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

To understand verse Romans 11:25 properly you have to take all Paul said into account:

(1) It had been established in chapter 10 that Paul was upset that the Gentiles lacked zeal to preach to his fleshly relatives, asking them "How will they here without someone to preach?"

(2) Verse 1 shows the Gentiles being affected by the Jews persecution of them had caused them to act as though all the remaining Jews yet outside of Christ must have been completely cast off.

(3) Verses 2-5 argues that it is no different than in Elias day, that there is yet a remnant of them still out there. Only a remnant yet out there.

(4) Verses 6-11 shows that God did not take the full remnant all at once but was bringing that remnant in gradually so that the Gentiles could be benefited by being used to help bring the remainder of that remnant in.

(5) Verse 14 shows Paul was not speaking of all Jews yet out there being save, but only some, as in the remaining part of the remnant of them, just as in the days of Elias. (Compare Romans 10:1 showing Paul only hoped they might be saved.)

(6) Verse 15 Paul argues that the fulness of that remaining remnant yet out there is valuable to God, even as all human life from the dead even of the gentiles is.

(7) Verse 16 Paul argues that if the firstfruits of that remnant be holy to God then the entire lump of that remnant yet out there must also be holy to God. (That gets missed to apply to all as in the entire Israel but that idea jumps from Paul's theme arguing for the remnant yet out there. We must stick with Paul's theme and his theme is that just as in Elias day there is yet part of a remnant still out there, even as Elias was the first part of that remnant back in his day and more of a remnant remained out there.)

(8) Verses 17-24 merely warns the Gentiles to not be so high minded because God could cut them back off that tree, as in permanently and revert back to only saving a remnant of those Jews rather than a remnant of both Jews and Gentiles.

(9) Verse 25, which actually says when properly translated and understood, Stop making this out as something mysterious in your ignorance. It is no mystery. That remaining part of that remnant which is yet out there, will be out there as it is being brought in along with the fulness of the Gentiles being brought in.

(10) Verse 26-31 (as compared to what Paul said at Romans 9: 6-15) is only telling us that remnant of all who are really Israel by the election of God (not of flesh) will be saved just as it was prophesied that remnant would be. It has never been prophesied that all would be saved which is why Paul clearly said he hoped to save some of them in verse 14. It is false doctrine that claims God ever said all Israel as in all Israel by flesh would be saved. And it the spirit of the Synagogue of Satan per Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 which has infiltrated that idea into the church.

(11) Verse 32 says, Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them [as in the remaining part of that remnant] all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all [of the remnant of both Jews and gentiles yet out there.].

Them is a word added by the translator in verse 32 and actually says, Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." Which is the same exact thing Paul spoke of at Galatians 3:22. Read the entire Galatians chapter 3 and you will see all he meant at Romans 11:32.

I have been staying strictly to the scriptures with them all the way through our discussion. crossnote has injected opinion all over the place and has not stayed by scripture. He blasphemes Abraham and Paul in his opinions which go way outside of scripture, touting that Abraham had no faith before God approached him the way that the wicked generation of Jews back then demanded a sign before they could have faith. He is saying that is what Abraham did and blaspheming Abraham.

And he claims that Paul had not faith in God before his conversion on the road to Damascus. That is a blasphemy by missed understanding. You guys have mistaken faith in Christ with faith in the Father. It was on the basis of true faith in the Father that Abel was remembered and that Noah and his family was saved. Abraham's faith was in the Father. The Promises were given upon faith in the Father not upon faith in the seed that is Jesus and everyone has missed that, transferring that faith all over to Jesus who was back when the promises were made only the seed, the thing promised of God the Father and faith was in the word of the Father that God cannot lie.

And Paul had that. He lacked yet fully understanding the thing promised but his faith in God was strong.

Please grasp this and help me break this reign of the synagogue of Satan in the church. We need to educate ourselves so we can bring them to their knees.

 

[homwardbound]

To understand verse Romans 11:25 properly you have to take all Paul said into account:

(1) It had been established in chapter 10 that Paul was upset that the Gentiles lacked zeal to preach to his fleshly relatives, asking them "How will they here without someone to preach?"

(2) Verse 1 shows the Gentiles being affected by the Jews persecution of them had caused them to act as though all the remaining Jews yet outside of Christ must have been completely cast off.

(3) Verses 2-5 argues that it is no different than in Elias day, that there is yet a remnant of them still out there. Only a remnant yet out there.

(4) Verses 6-11 shows that God did not take the full remnant all at once but was bringing that remnant in gradually so that the Gentiles could be benefited by being used to help bring the remainder of that remnant in.

(5) Verse 14 shows Paul was not speaking of all Jews yet out there being save, but only some, as in the remaining part of the remnant of them, just as in the days of Elias. (Compare Romans 10:1 showing Paul only hoped they might be saved.)

(6) Verse 15 Paul argues that the fulness of that remaining remnant yet out there is valuable to God, even as all human life from the dead even of the gentiles is.

(7) Verse 16 Paul argues that if the firstfruits of that remnant be holy to God then the entire lump of that remnant yet out there must also be holy to God. (That gets missed to apply to all as in the entire Israel but that idea jumps from Paul's theme arguing for the remnant yet out there. We must stick with Paul's theme and his theme is that just as in Elias day there is yet part of a remnant still out there, even as Elias was the first part of that remnant back in his day and more of a remnant remained out there.)

(8) Verses 17-24 merely warns the Gentiles to not be so high minded because God could cut them back off that tree, as in permanently and revert back to only saving a remnant of those Jews rather than a remnant of both Jews and Gentiles.

(9) Verse 25, which actually says when properly translated and understood, Stop making this out as something mysterious in your ignorance. It is no mystery. That remaining part of that remnant which is yet out there, will be out there as it is being brought in along with the fulness of the Gentiles being brought in.

(10) Verse 26-31 (as compared to what Paul said at Romans 9: 6-15) is only telling us that remnant of all who are really Israel by the election of God (not of flesh) will be saved just as it was prophesied that remnant would be. It has never been prophesied that all would be saved which is why Paul clearly said he hoped to save some of them in verse 14. It is false doctrine that claims God ever said all Israel as in all Israel by flesh would be saved. And it the spirit of the Synagogue of Satan per Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 which has infiltrated that idea into the church.

(11) Verse 32 says, Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them [as in the remaining part of that remnant] all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all [of the remnant of both Jews and gentiles yet out there.].

Them is a word added by the translator in verse 32 and actually says, Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." Which is the same exact thing Paul spoke of at Galatians 3:22. Read the entire Galatians chapter 3 and you will see all he meant at Romans 11:32.

I have been staying strictly to the scriptures with them all the way through our discussion. crossnote has injected opinion all over the place and has not stayed by scripture. He blasphemes Abraham and Paul in his opinions which go way outside of scripture, touting that Abraham had no faith before God approached him the way that the wicked generation of Jews back then demanded a sign before they could have faith. He is saying that is what Abraham did and blaspheming Abraham.

And he claims that Paul had not faith in God before his conversion on the road to Damascus. That is a blasphemy by missed understanding. You guys have mistaken faith in Christ with faith in the Father. It was on the basis of true faith in the Father that Abel was remembered and that Noah and his family was saved. Abraham's faith was in the Father. The Promises were given upon faith in the Father not upon faith in the seed that is Jesus and everyone has missed that, transferring that faith all over to Jesus who was back when the promises were made only the seed, the thing promised of God the Father and faith was in the word of the Father that God cannot lie.

And Paul had that. He lacked yet fully understanding the thing promised but his faith in God was strong.

Please grasp this and help me break this reign of the synagogue of Satan in the church. We need to educate ourselves so we can bring them to their knees.

So bottom line either works of the Human flesh or the works of God throguh the Spirit
Ao let us all look at our own Zeal and see if we are misled from truth that is only found in God's Spirit
Saul had a great Zeal and became transformed and learned all a new.
Had to so to speak look at a chalk board with an eraser on it and chalk. The board was full of Saul's life all he did from borth on to this day that he was missing in the Arabian Desert.
And god said to Saul see the chalk board and all that is written on it, Saul replies yes this is my whole past olife back to birth.
God says take that eraser and erase all that past life and I (God) will teach you new life,
Erase and start writiing all anew. I wonder do you think we all might need to take a deeper look, about Paul, because Paul was taught from behind the cloud, Jesus Christ himself, all I can do is ask and stand in Faith for God to show each of us the amazing truth
Paul counted all he did prior as dung
[h=3]Philippians 3:7-11[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.


[h=3]Galatians 2[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[h=3]Paul Accepted by the Apostles[/h]2 Then after fourteen years, I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. [SUP]4 [/SUP]This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. [SUP]5 [/SUP]We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message. [SUP]7 [/SUP]On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. [SUP]9 [/SUP]James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. [SUP]10 [/SUP]All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

So bottom line either works of the Human flesh or the works of God throguh the Spirit
Ao let us all look at our own Zeal and see if we are misled from truth that is only found in God's Spirit
Saul had a great Zeal and became transformed and learned all a new.
Had to so to speak look at a chalk board with an eraser on it and chalk. The board was full of Saul's life all he did from borth on to this day that he was missing in the Arabian Desert.
And god said to Saul see the chalk board and all that is written on it, Saul replies yes this is my whole past olife back to birth.
God says take that eraser and erase all that past life and I (God) will teach you new life,
Erase and start writiing all anew. I wonder do you think we all might need to take a deeper look, about Paul, because Paul was taught from behind the cloud, Jesus Christ himself, all I can do is ask and stand in Faith for God to show each of us the amazing truth
Paul counted all he did prior as dung
Philippians 3:7-11

New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.


Galatians 2

New International Version (NIV)

Paul Accepted by the Apostles

2 Then after fourteen years, I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. [SUP]4 [/SUP]This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. [SUP]5 [/SUP]We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message. [SUP]7 [/SUP]On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. [SUP]9 [/SUP]James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. [SUP]10 [/SUP]All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.

I like what you have said but there is more to it than that. It is confusion over faith and where that faith begins.

Mark this into your minds with unalterable ink: Jesus said plainly, Matthew 11:27 "All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Remember what Jesus told Peter when Jesus asked who they thought Jesus was: Matthew 16:15 "He [Jesus] saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

THAT IS WHERE FAITH BEGINS. THAT IS WHERE FAITH BEGAN FOR ABEL, FOR ENOCH, AND FOR NOAH WHO BY IT FOUND THE DIVINE FAVOR OF GRACE IN GOD'S EYES. Genesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD."

THAT IS WHERE FAITH BEGAN FOR ABRAHAM, FOR ISAAC, AND FOR JACOB.

SARAH HAD TROUBLE WITH THAT BEGINNING FAITH BUT ABRAHAM DID NOT. THEREFORE GOD HAD TO TELL ABRAHAM TO LISTEN TO SARAH AND DO WHAT SARAH REQUESTED OF HIM. SO THEN ABRAHAM'S SIRING OFFSPRING BY SARAH'S MAID SERVANT WAS NOT ABRAHAM LACKING IN FAITH.

GOD TOLD ABRAHAM TO LISTEN TO SARAH SO THAT HE COULD CREATE THE LIVING ALLEGORY PAUL SPEAKS OF AT GALATIANS 4:21-31. GOD USE EVERYTHING CONNECTED TO ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB BACK THEN TO CREATE VARIOUS ALLEGORIES FOR US TODAY TO ASSIST OUR ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT TOOK PLACE WITH FLESHLY ISRAEL VERSES GOD'S TRUE ISRAEL OF THE SPIRIT.

THAT FAITH HAS ALWAYS BEGAN IN GOD THE FATHER THAT HE CANNOT LIE!!! THAT IS THE BEGINNING FAITH THAT GOD BLESSED THAT SPIRIT OF FAITH BY THOSE IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE. AS HIS TRUE ISRAEL OF A RIGHT SPIRIT WHICH BELIEVES WITH IT'S WHOLE HEART THAT GOD CANNOT LIE, GOD ELECTED THEM TO BE IN CHRIST WHERE BY BEING IN CHRIST THEY COULD THEN COME TO KNOW THE FATHER INTIMATELY IN TERMS OF HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS AND KNOW HOW TO RID THEMSELVES OF THEIR OWN FLAWED RIGHTEOUSNESS.

THE MEEK ARE THOSE WHO HAVE THAT FAITH THAT GOD CANNOT LIE. AND THAT HAS TO EXIST FIRST OR NO ONE WOULD EVER ACCEPT CHRIST. THE OT TELLS US THAT SINCE THE FIRST ONE, ABEL, SUCH MEEK ONES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN IN THE EARTH TO BE FOUND. IN FACT GOD MAKES IT CLEAR THAT HAD THEY NOT BEEN GOD WOULD HAVE JUST GONE AHEAD AND DESTROYED THE EARTH, COMPLETELY.


IT IS BLASPHEMY AGAINST GOD AND AGAINST ABRAHAM, PAUL, OR ANYONE, TO CLAIM THEY DID NOT HAVE TO HAVE THAT BEGINNING FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE, BEFORE GOD COULD REVEAL CHRIST TO THEM, OR EVEN BEFORE GOD WOULD HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEM IN TERMS OF BLESSING THEM WITH THE PROMISES.


THIS IS AN EXTREMELY SERIOUS MATTER FOLKS. IT CANNOT GET MORE SERIOUS AS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BLASPHEMING GOD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WHICH REVEALS THIS ERROR CONCERNING FAITH TO THE MANY THAT HAVE PUT IT ALL IN CHRIST AND FORGOTTEN TO TEACH THAT BEGINNING FAITH IN GOD.

HERE WHAT I SAY AND FEAR GOD.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

ASK YOURSELVES IF CROSSNOTE'S CLAIM THAT I AM WRONG IN THIS BECAUSE OF WHAT PAUL SAID AT ROMANS 10:17.

Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

ABSORB THAT A SECOND SO THAT YOU CAN SEE HOW SUBTLE FORCES ARE THAT MISLEAD.

NOW HEAR THIS: Matthew 13:14 "And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive.."

RIGHT THERE YOU CAN BEGIN TO UNRAVEL CROSSNOTE'S LIE. BUT DON'T HATE HIM AS HE MAY PERHAPS REPENT IT AND IF NOT THEN HE DESIRES TO BE RIGHT MORE THAN HE DESIRES TO KNOW TRUTH. IT WILL BE YOUR DUTY TO HIM AND TO GOD TO IGNORE HIM UNTIL HE DOES REPENT IT. OTHERWISE HE WILL ONLY BE CONTENT TO KEEP DECEIVING HIMSELF. AND TO ALLOW THAT WOULD NOT BE LOVING OF US.

AS I SAID, WE CAN BEGIN TO UNRAVEL THAT LIE, HERE, Matthew 13:14 "And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive.."

THEY HEARD BUT NO FAITH IN WHO CAME? NO FAITH IN CHRIST CAME. BUT, THAT DID NOT MEAN THAT THEY HAD NO FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE SO THAT THEY WOULD ALSO HAVE NO FAITH THAT GOD WOULD DELIVER ON HIS PROMISES. ABOUT 2% OF THEM TODAY OUT OF THAT 10% THAT ACTUALLY EXPRESS BELIEF IN GOD, YET HOLD OUT HOPE OF REALIZING THOSE PROMISES. THEY JUST HAVE NOT YET UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY ARE FULFILLED IN JESUS AS THE MESSIAH. AND THAT TWO PERCENT MAY YET WAKE UP. COMPARE WHAT I HERE SAID TO THE LAST POST WHERE I DISCUSSED ROMANS CHAPTER 11 AND SHOWED THAT THE ENTIRE THEME STICKS TO THAT REMNANT, RATHER THAN TO THE WHOLE NATION.

FOR THE TRUE ISRAELITE BY THE SPIRIT OF FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE AND THAT THEREFOR THESE PROMISES SURELY MUST COME, THEIR NOT ACCEPTING JESUS ONLY MEANT THAT THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORD THEY HEARD ABOUT JESUS.

AND FOR THAT SMALL NUMBER WHO ACTUALLY HAD THAT MODICUM OF FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE, THAT WAS BECAUSE IT REQUIRES GOD TO HELP THEM TO HAVE FAITH IN JESUS AS DISCUSSED AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS POST. THUS IT WAS ONLY TRUE FOR THAT SMALL NUMBER WHO ACTUALLY HAD THAT MODICUM OF FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE THAT IT CAN BE SAID THAT GOD LET THEM REMAIN BLINDED.

THE ONES LACKING THAT MODICUM OF FAITH, OF WHICH PAUL WAS NOT ONE, THEY HAD BLINDED THEMSELVES THROUGH UNBELIEF OF THEIR OWN EMPTY MINDS THAT COULD NOT SEE GOD IN ALL THAT GOD HAS DONE AND IN CREATION AROUND THEM TO HAVE MODICUM OF FAITH IN GOD THAT GOD CANNOT LIE. WE SEE THAT TYPE ALL AROUND US.

BUT THAT IS WHERE READING WHAT PAUL SPEAKS CONFUSES MANY AS SOMETIMES HE IS SPEAKING OF THAT LARGER PORTION WHICH BLINDED THEMSELVES BY THEIR OWN UNWILLINGNESS TO BELIEVE EVEN IN THE FATHER. (LIKE THEY 8O TO 90 PERCENT OF ISRAEL TODAY), AND SOMETIMES PAUL WAS SPEAKING OF THE REMNANT (THAT SMALL NUMBER) YET BLIND BECAUSE GOD HAD NOT YET OPENED THEIR EYES AS GOD HAD RESERVED IT FOR THEM TO HAVE THEIR EYES OPENED BY BEING PREACHED TO BY THE GENTILES INCITING THEM TO JEALOUSY WHEN THEY PREACHED TO THEM.

WE HAVE TO DISCERN FROM THE CONTEXT AND OUR KNOWLEDGE OF ALL THAT PAUL HAS TOLD US, WHICH ONES OF THAT NATION PAUL IS SPEAKING OF WHEN HE SPEAKS.

MANY OF THEM LACKED THAT FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE BUT THOSE ONES WOULD NOT TRY EVEN TO SERVE GOD BY THEIR OWN ZEAL. NO ONE SERVES GOD IF THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN HIM AND THOSE ONES WOULD NOT BE AT ALL INTERESTED TO HEAR ANYONE PREACH TO THEM SO AS TO BE MADE JEALOUS BY THE ONE PREACHING TO THEM.

HOW DOES THAT JEALOUSY WORK? IT WORKS THAT IN WHEN THE GENTILE PREACHER CAME TO THEM TO PREACH TO THEM, THE ONES THAT HAD THAT FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE WOULD NOT LIKE A GENTILE KNOWING MORE THAN THEY. AND THAT WOULD BE A FORCE TO MOVE THEM TO TRY HARDER TO THINK THE MATTER THROUGH.

THAT EFFORT OF THEIR FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE GOD WOULD THEN BLESS AND REMOVE THE VEIL FROM OFF OF THEIR HEART.

BUT HE HAD LEFT THAT SMALL NUMBER OF THE BLINDED FOR THE SAKE OF THE GENTILES, FOR IF GOD WAS GOING TO HELP THE GENTILES TO BECOME IN DEPTH IN THEIR KNOWLEDGE IT WOULD MOST CERTAINLY BE BY HAVING THEM PREACH TO TRUE JEWS OF FAITH THAT HAD THAT BACKGROUND KNOWLEDGE. THAT WOULD MAKE A GENTILE HAVE TO WORK HIMSELF TO A FULLER UNDERSTANDING IN ORDER TO BE EFFICIENTLY ABLE TO PREACH TO THE JEW OF FAITH IN THE PROMISES OF GOS THAT HE CANNOT LIE.

I HOPE THIS CLEARS UP MUCH OF THE CONFUSION REIGNING HERE AND ENDS THE CURRENT BLASPHEMY OR AT LEAST MINIMIZES THAT BLASPHEMY BY EQUIPPING MORE TO WAGE SPIRITUAL WARFARE AGAINST IT.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Let's try to stay on the topic of this post. This post is how to indentify the true nation of Israel according to the signs that God gave.

God gave Abraham an unconditional promise. He promised Abraham that He would give his seed the land of Canaan no matter what.

But even though they are guaranteed the land God still said they must obey His commandments for the blessings.

They did not keep God's laws, therefore them and their seed have been cursed by God. They will still receive the land that have been promised to them...but in the meantime they will continued to be cursed until the marrage of the Lamb.


.

 

[starfield]

Typing in all caps doesn't make one more right. Just sayin'.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Typing in all caps doesn't make one more right. Just sayin'.

Yes I know, my key board got hung up on caps. I have told others that very same thing. I had to break and clean it to get to stop doing that. took a few tries but I finally got it.

What makes right is God. Don't look at me look to the scriptures I cite. And then choose to see or not to see.

 

[homwardbound]

I like what you have said but there is more to it than that. It is confusion over faith and where that faith begins.

Mark this into your minds with unalterable ink: Jesus said plainly, Matthew 11:27 "All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Remember what Jesus told Peter when Jesus asked who they thought Jesus was: Matthew 16:15 "He [Jesus] saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

THAT IS WHERE FAITH BEGINS. THAT IS WHERE FAITH BEGAN FOR ABEL, FOR ENOCH, AND FOR NOAH WHO BY IT FOUND THE DIVINE FAVOR OF GRACE IN GOD'S EYES. Genesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD."

THAT IS WHERE FAITH BEGAN FOR ABRAHAM, FOR ISAAC, AND FOR JACOB.

SARAH HAD TROUBLE WITH THAT BEGINNING FAITH BUT ABRAHAM DID NOT. THEREFORE GOD HAD TO TELL ABRAHAM TO LISTEN TO SARAH AND DO WHAT SARAH REQUESTED OF HIM. SO THEN ABRAHAM'S SIRING OFFSPRING BY SARAH'S MAID SERVANT WAS NOT ABRAHAM LACKING IN FAITH.

GOD TOLD ABRAHAM TO LISTEN TO SARAH SO THAT HE COULD CREATE THE LIVING ALLEGORY PAUL SPEAKS OF AT GALATIANS 4:21-31. GOD USE EVERYTHING CONNECTED TO ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB BACK THEN TO CREATE VARIOUS ALLEGORIES FOR US TODAY TO ASSIST OUR ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT TOOK PLACE WITH FLESHLY ISRAEL VERSES GOD'S TRUE ISRAEL OF THE SPIRIT.

THAT FAITH HAS ALWAYS BEGAN IN GOD THE FATHER THAT HE CANNOT LIE!!! THAT IS THE BEGINNING FAITH THAT GOD BLESSED THAT SPIRIT OF FAITH BY THOSE IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE. AS HIS TRUE ISRAEL OF A RIGHT SPIRIT WHICH BELIEVES WITH IT'S WHOLE HEART THAT GOD CANNOT LIE, GOD ELECTED THEM TO BE IN CHRIST WHERE BY BEING IN CHRIST THEY COULD THEN COME TO KNOW THE FATHER INTIMATELY IN TERMS OF HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS AND KNOW HOW TO RID THEMSELVES OF THEIR OWN FLAWED RIGHTEOUSNESS.

THE MEEK ARE THOSE WHO HAVE THAT FAITH THAT GOD CANNOT LIE. AND THAT HAS TO EXIST FIRST OR NO ONE WOULD EVER ACCEPT CHRIST. THE OT TELLS US THAT SINCE THE FIRST ONE, ABEL, SUCH MEEK ONES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN IN THE EARTH TO BE FOUND. IN FACT GOD MAKES IT CLEAR THAT HAD THEY NOT BEEN GOD WOULD HAVE JUST GONE AHEAD AND DESTROYED THE EARTH, COMPLETELY.


IT IS BLASPHEMY AGAINST GOD AND AGAINST ABRAHAM, PAUL, OR ANYONE, TO CLAIM THEY DID NOT HAVE TO HAVE THAT BEGINNING FAITH IN GOD THAT HE CANNOT LIE, BEFORE GOD COULD REVEAL CHRIST TO THEM, OR EVEN BEFORE GOD WOULD HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEM IN TERMS OF BLESSING THEM WITH THE PROMISES.


THIS IS AN EXTREMELY SERIOUS MATTER FOLKS. IT CANNOT GET MORE SERIOUS AS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BLASPHEMING GOD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WHICH REVEALS THIS ERROR CONCERNING FAITH TO THE MANY THAT HAVE PUT IT ALL IN CHRIST AND FORGOTTEN TO TEACH THAT BEGINNING FAITH IN GOD.

HERE WHAT I SAY AND FEAR GOD.

Today by God through Christ he drawethall men unto himself which is the most important, the begining of Faith today is waht Christ completed on the Cross. First the death for all men. then the life the resurrection for all men, God is not lieing
Romans 5:18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 Timothy 2:4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Thanks for your food on that post, not actually addinf to it just showinig theat today God via the cross is and done God's last and final way to restore all mankind if only they will come to beleif in ther finished work at the cross. And god knows who does believe or not whether they sat they do or not.But still the facts are the facts he went to the cross for all once and for all. We are only left with to believe or not to believe. Anything without Faith (beleif) in God is of no value at all, and I speak of christ the cross of, the way, the truth, and the life
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• Colossians 1:16For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

 

[homwardbound]

Yes I know, my key board got hung up on caps. I have told others that very same thing. I had to break and clean it to get to stop doing that. took a few tries but I finally got it.

What makes right is God. Don't look at me look to the scriptures I cite. And then choose to see or not to see.

Yes the begining of Wisdom begins with fear of the Lord and then seasrching out all the word, and when one finally sees how deep God loves them the this perfect love casts out all fear in you, you ,you and you too!!!!!!
I see when I was there in total fear and I also see when Iwas freed and took advantage of the grace that god gave trhorugh Christ's death, I did not see the life the resurrection at that time, so I still had no life even though I believed, I kept the belief up and still do today daily, and God one day showed me the power of the resurrection and showed me new life in his Spirt by belief in God that he gave me, because I would not give up to know my heavenly creator, Father through his Son, who by his death, burial and resurrection has restored me and all that will come to see this miraculous power entailed here in the final sacrifice and final shedding of blood of Jesus we are restored, reconciled unto Father to recieve from Father new Spiritual life ini God
Goid does not lie and those that know this by Father who has shown this to them are true Israelites, Children of Abraham by Faith total belief in God's finished work at the cross
Ephesians 1:7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

1. Ephesians 2:7
   that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
   Ephesians 3:8[ Purpose of the Mystery ] To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
   Ephesians 3:16that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man,
   Philippians 4:19And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
   Colossians 1:27To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
   Colossians 2:2that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Holiness comes after God picks up an undeserving sinner out of the gutter of life and begins cleaning him up. Again an undeserving sinner...that is what grace is all about.
Most examples you gave were addressed to those already in the Commonwealth of Israel.
Please act like the intelligent person you try to be and stop with the ad hominems.

That was the first stone thrown back in your post #20.

I have yet more to explain. I approached this matter from the standpoint that God's own Law says you are wrong that the promises (any of them) can ever be given to unholy flesh. If you paid closer attention to the Levitical Laws you would see that loud and clear. That was why God ended up divorcing them, even as Eccl12and13 has proved to you by scripture. God tried to get them to cooperate with him so that he could make them holy but their flesh could only rebel against that and remain unholy.


Your premise that there were special promises to them made to their flesh is wrong. All the promises of God are made yes in Jesus, not some were but others not. 2 Corinthians 1:20 “For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.”


And right here is to whom all of those promises were given: Galatians 3:16 “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”


So the promises had to be given to toward the spirit, not only because God's own law forbids them to the unholy, but also because Christ had no actual fleshly father, through whom to really inherited those promises except through his spiritual connection, the oneness of spirit as shown by their like faith that the giver of such promises cannot not lie.


Even for those that believe in the spiritual true Israel of God as myself by reason of how Jesus was able to receive those promises though having no actual fleshly birth Israelite father, this is not an easy pill to swallow.


Why? Because once we realize it, we also come face to face with having to realize that Peter did not mean holiness thru imputation on Christ's merit, but literally meant it just as the Old Law meant it, when Peter said, 1 Peter 1:15-16 “But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.”


Clearly the imputation of holiness is only so that we can have approach to God through Christ, not directly but through Christ. And just as clearly, this is so we can be helped right now to actually cloth ourselves with God's holiness by the help we are given of the model of it Christ has shown unto us and the extra push of the remembrancer (the Holy Spirit) to aid us in understanding.


I am a trumpet of God. I have come to you in peace from God. And it is my job to help you understand even if you should slay me. I give my life for you even as Christ gave his life for you.


Hear O'Israel and take heed.

 

[prodigal]

i can have faith in what i cant see, but can i have faith in what i dont know until it is made known to me

 

[kardiaoangelous]

i can have faith in what i cant see, but can i have faith in what i dont know until it is made known to me

God made known from the beginning that he would bring forth a singular seed, (just as Paul told us at Galatians 3:16), to whom all his work of salvation, including the promises necessary to salvation, were committed.

Abel knew that and demonstrated faith that God cannot lie concerning His promise of that special seed.

The point Paul makes in this next verse is that it was to Abel that God entered a covenant of salvation for man:

Hebrews 11:4 "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.."

Abel knew what God had said here: Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Abel understood that better than any of us and so did his parents who were yet alive to explain to him what God meant.

And that is where faith began and how faith came to be passed spirit to spirit among those willing to accept it.

It is the same principle behind the Proverb which speaks of "as iron sharpening iron, so one man sharpens the face of another."

Not all men allow themselves to be sharpened with knowledge of what Abel gained through his parents, in order that they can really understand to have true faith in it.

All of those at Hebrews 11 and many more were able to have that beginning knowledge passed by willing spirit to receive it.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

i can have faith in what i cant see, but can i have faith in what i dont know until it is made known to me

To which I replied:

God made known from the beginning that he would bring forth a singular seed, (just as Paul told us at Galatians 3:16), to whom all his work of salvation, including the promises necessary to salvation, were committed.

Abel knew that and demonstrated faith that God cannot lie concerning His promise of that special seed.

The point Paul makes in this next verse is that it was to Abel that God entered a covenant of salvation for man:

Hebrews 11:4 "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.."

Abel knew what God had said here: Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Abel understood that better than any of us and so did his parents who were yet alive to explain to him what God meant.

And that is where faith began and how faith came to be passed spirit to spirit among those willing to accept it.

It is the same principle behind the Proverb which speaks of "as iron sharpening iron, so one man sharpens the face of another."

Not all men allow themselves to be sharpened with knowledge of what Abel gained through his parents, in order that they can really understand to have true faith in it.

All of those at Hebrews 11 and many more were able to have that beginning knowledge passed by willing spirit to receive it.

This highlights to us how subtle the influence by those who have not taken time to really discern God's truth but yet quickly jumped in their pride to become teachers can be.

They have relied on Bible colleges run by men who have also not taken time to really discern God's truth, men who rely on writings by men who have done the very same thing.

Thus this error gets wedged into their spirit as a corruption that blinds them to see what the scriptures really say.

Only the courageous who truly love God and who have the meekness to listen will get free from their entanglement.

Satan's spirit of pride in them thus gets mistaken for standing staunchly on behalf of truth.

Whether prodical himself is a minister or not, he has learned what he said from such a misinformed teacher.

 

[homwardbound]

i can have faith in what i cant see, but can i have faith in what i dont know until it is made known to me

Having the faith(beleif) in God brings the know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The air that we breath we do not see and yet know if we do not breath we do not physically live.
Ans Faith always has to have an object and depending on the object of Faith causes one to live or die, even though death came before life could as in the cross death necessary to redeem the people in order to give them life those that beleive

 

[cross3570]

What the Holy Bible says about God?

Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;


​

 

[Eccl12and13]

What the Holy Bible says about God?

Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;


​

And this is absolutly correct! It is impossible for God to lie.

As a matter of fact we have already been told who it is that is lying about who they say they are. Let's read it again...

Rev.2
[9]
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev.3
[9]
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


But even if we didn't have the above scriptures we would know who the seed of Israel is by the signs given to us by God. And on the flip side would would also know who is NOT the seed of Israel.

So since God cannot lie...and since He put the curses upon all of the seed of the nation of Israel, those that call themselves Jews cannot be the seed of the nation of Israel of the bible because they do not have the curses that God said He would put upon them for not keeping His law.

And YES!! The true seed of Israel will still receive the promise of the land of Canaan as an everlasting posession.....but until the marriage of the Lamb happens, that seed will be cursed!

God cannot lie!

Man can and continues to do so!


.

 

[homwardbound]

And this is absolutly correct! It is impossible for God to lie.

As a matter of fact we have already been told who it is that is lying about who they say they are. Let's read it again...

Rev.2
[9]
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev.3
[9]
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


But even if we didn't have the above scriptures we would know who the seed of Israel is by the signs given to us by God. And on the flip side would would also know who is NOT the seed of Israel.

So since God cannot lie...and since He put the curses upon all of the seed of the nation of Israel, those that call themselves Jews cannot be the seed of the nation of Israel of the bible because they do not have the curses that God said He would put upon them for not keeping His law.

And YES!! The true seed of Israel will still receive the promise of the land of Canaan as an everlasting posession.....but until the marriage of the Lamb happens, that seed will be cursed!

God cannot lie!

Man can and continues to do so!


.

I think we just need be careful about things as Iknow you mentioned as an after thought about the remnant of God's chosen ones, and we always IMO need to rightly discern the word, and remember
[h=3]Romans 11:20-25[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

I think we just need be careful about things as Iknow you mentioned as an after thought about the remnant of God's chosen ones, and we always IMO need to rightly discern the word, and remember
Romans 11:20-25

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

But you also have to stick with Paul's theme instead of enforcing you own theme from out of mid-air. There is absolutely no doubt Paul's theme was that there was yet a remaining part of that small remnant out there to be brought in, just as was true in Elias' day when he thought he was the last of the remnant. It was only that remaining part of that remnant which was blinded. The rest had proven not to be true Israel at all, even as Paul clearly said at Romans 9:6.

You cannot take all that and then turn what Paul was saying into being about the entire nation. That would not be rightly dividing the word. And you have no excuse not to know that from what Paul said in verse 14 of chapter 11 and at Romans 10:1, concerning his hope being only that some might be saved.

What means more to you all? Your false doctrines or rightly dividing God's word? To the extent you thru not rightly dividing the word do mislead others along with you, you will be slated to endure a worse fate of judgment from God than even the worst of the sinful in the world.

It is not going to be worth having defended wrong ideas friends. Wake up while you yet can.