Why dealing with an atheist is futile.

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JackTheHatter

Banned
#21
Jul 22, 2015
154
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#21
blondieindahouse said:
"and I can assure you intelligence is not related to your position on god"

Actually, it is! It is directly related to my position > born again IN Christ. God. < Big G required here for the King of Kings and Lord of Lords:)

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom ...Wisdom comes ONLY from the LORD. Ask and it shall be given to you.Seek and you shall find. Knock and it will be opened to you.

Proverbs 2:6
For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.


Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.


James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault,
and it will be given to you.


Matthew 7:7
Ask and it shall be given to you.Seek and you shall find. Knock and it will be opened to you.
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Well it's good to hear it's a positive influence in your life. I was referring more so to the fact that a person can be a good doctor or be well versed in poetry regardless of faith practices.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#22
#22
interesting note about atheist. in the science branch of the academic world, mainly back in the 60s and 70s there was an atheist revolution yet through their pursuit of science they have dug so deep they discover atheism does not hold water (materialism is dead) and re discovered spirituality. i thought it was interesting.
 
GuessWho

GuessWho

Senior Member
#23
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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#23
JackTheHatter said:
Well it's good to hear it's a positive influence in your life. I was referring more so to the fact that a person can be a good doctor or be well versed in poetry regardless of faith practices.
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True. But the Holy Spirit gives you a knowledge and wisdom that go beyond any man-made science and philosophies.
 
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JackTheHatter

Banned
#24
Jul 22, 2015
154
0
0
#24
jaybird88 said:
interesting note about atheist. in the science branch of the academic world, mainly back in the 60s and 70s there was an atheist revolution yet through their pursuit of science they have dug so deep they discover atheism does not hold water (materialism is dead) and re discovered spirituality. i thought it was interesting.
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Interesting note about atheism. It's not directly linked to science. There are plenty of people who aren't theists who still believe in a supernatural realm, spiritual activity, or other ideals that don't rely on scientific backing. These people are still atheists based on their rejection of theism, but they don't automatically use science to explain everything. My atheism came about when looking into religious ideology. Science didn't come into play until looking at the cosmos and life on the planet. I still questioned religious notions and religious history to come to atheism. What do you think people lack as atheists?
 
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sparkman

Guest
#25
#25
I agree mostly, but you can't eliminate the possibility that God may open their eyes to their folly during a conversation. I just wouldn't spend too much time on it.

I know at least one Christian who was an atheist and said that a conversation with a Christian where some arguments for God's existence influenced him. So, it's not impossible.

However in general I would agree. It's more of a heart issue. Romans 1 says that all know of God's existence, but that they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. The depth of that suppression may be so great that they've fooled themselves into believing God doesn't exist, but many of them know he does and they won't admit it.

Dude653 said:
Dealing with an atheist is always an exercise in futility. First off bear in mind that you were talking to someone who believes he is intellectually superior to you and that he is just dealing with a stupid Christian. As Christians we base our beliefs on our Bible but when talking to someone who doesn't believe the Bible then you may as well be reading from a book about Bugs Bunny so this immediately becomes a moot point. Then they will ask you questions like why does God not do this or why does God do that. There are no correct answers to these questions as they will always have another irrelevant question loaded and ready to go. Finally they will always fall back on the indoctrination argument, claiming that we are only speaking from indoctrination. This is why our time is too precious to waste it on those who don't want to hear it.
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psalm6819

Guest
#26
#26
Hi Jack, did you ever try to dialogue/pray/communicate with God? I phrase this way because I don't think one has to fold the hands, get on thier knees, ect to communicate.
 
shineyourlight

shineyourlight

Senior Member
#27
May 25, 2015
6,119
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#27
Dude653 said:
Dealing with an atheist is always an exercise in futility. First off bear in mind that you were talking to someone who believes he is intellectually superior to you and that he is just dealing with a stupid Christian. As Christians we base our beliefs on our Bible but when talking to someone who doesn't believe the Bible then you may as well be reading from a book about Bugs Bunny so this immediately becomes a moot point. Then they will ask you questions like why does God not do this or why does God do that. There are no correct answers to these questions as they will always have another irrelevant question loaded and ready to go. Finally they will always fall back on the indoctrination argument, claiming that we are only speaking from indoctrination. This is why our time is too precious to waste it on those who don't want to hear it.
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When I was an atheist, the only thing that helped me was when Christians showed me love. I definitely felt superior and when Christians would try to prove to me the existence of God through the means of the Bible, I laughed.

I needed love, but felt people hated me more and judged me simply and therefore, made me hate Christians. It wasn't until years later when I met someone that showed me love. He was going into the ministry and I was already on the fence about him talking to me because of the treatment of Christians.

When I was shown love, I encountered God because I became more open to the idea of Him.
 
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JackTheHatter

Banned
#28
Jul 22, 2015
154
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#28
psalm6819 said:
Hi Jack, did you ever try to dialogue/pray/communicate with God? I phrase this way because I don't think one has to fold the hands, get on thier knees, ect to communicate.
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Hello! I have tried to communicate in the past. I truly believed in the power of prayer, and it did get me through some tough times (as far as a comfort mechanism). I come from a Catholic family and I was devoted to my Christianity well into my twenties. I never got a response for my prayers, but that wasn't why I stopped believing. I always figured that if it was god, he'd know what to do. I stopped believing for many reasons, but I stopped believing in prayer when I realized that it was me making life better for myself and family. That prayer began to feel like I was wishing for luck and if I wanted results it was entirely dependent on what I did. I'd pray for safe travels for my family but if they were meant to get into an accident then what was the point? I understand why people pray, especially if it gives them hope in dark moments. I just know that if I'm in a tough situation, I'll be more likely to succeed if I just focus on finding solutions.
 
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JackTheHatter

Banned
#29
Jul 22, 2015
154
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0
#29
shineyourlight said:
When I was an atheist, the only thing that helped me was when Christians showed me love. I definitely felt superior and when Christians would try to prove to me the existence of God through the means of the Bible, I laughed.

I needed love, but felt people hated me more and judged me simply and therefore, made me hate Christians. It wasn't until years later when I met someone that showed me love. He was going into the ministry and I was already on the fence about him talking to me because of the treatment of Christians.

When I was shown love, I encountered God because I became more open to the idea of Him.
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In that story it sounds like you were ridiculed for not believing? Feeling intellectually superior to theists is a common flaw of some atheists. You should never laugh at what people believe, it's better to discuss what people believe and why. I've been successful in getting my point across in quite a few arguments, but I don't feel like I've defeated someone. I try to take something from my conversations with theists so that both sides can be a little more educated and open in the future.
 
GuessWho

GuessWho

Senior Member
#30
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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#30
JackTheHatter said:
Feeling intellectually superior to theists is a common flaw of some atheists.
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I wonder why. Do people who become atheists automatically put in their accounts the intelligence of let's say...Stephen Hawking?

Becoming atheist doesn't turn you into Stephen Hawking, just like becoming a christian doesn't turn you in Saint Paul.
 
shineyourlight

shineyourlight

Senior Member
#31
May 25, 2015
6,119
821
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#31
JackTheHatter said:
In that story it sounds like you were ridiculed for not believing? Feeling intellectually superior to theists is a common flaw of some atheists. You should never laugh at what people believe, it's better to discuss what people believe and why. I've been successful in getting my point across in quite a few arguments, but I don't feel like I've defeated someone. I try to take something from my conversations with theists so that both sides can be a little more educated and open in the future.
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Yes, I was ridiculed because I didn't believe in a higher being. But, it's okay :) It is what it is and that happened so many years ago. I became a Christian nine years ago and everything that happened before then is just in the past and doesn't matter much. However, I agree. I know where atheists are coming from and fighting with them isn't going to change their mind. Having an intellectual conversation is fine, but I didn't receive that at all. As Christians, we do have a responsibility to show the LOVE of Christ to others.
 
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JoelG

Guest
#32
#32
It is Creation vs Evolution. If either was completely provable then it would be finite beyond a shadow of a doubt One is bases on Faith and the other on Science. Both sides make very good points. And, its really a stalemate. Every issue has been tossed back and forth since the beginning of time. And, there is smart opponents on both sides of the debate.
 
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JackTheHatter

Banned
#33
Jul 22, 2015
154
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#33
GuessWho said:
I wonder why. Do people who become atheists automatically put in their accounts the intelligence of let's say...Stephen Hawking?

Becoming atheist doesn't turn you into Stephen Hawking, just like becoming a christian doesn't turn you in Saint Paul.
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Intelligence is measurable in so many ways. It's a bold claim for anyone to say they are smarter or as smart as someone else. Stephen Hawking can tell you a lot about the theoretical nature of black holes, but I wouldn't ask him for advice on what new muffler to buy for my car. Intelligence can be very much subjective, for this reason I never go to the "atheists are smarter" argument. I would certainly challenge any atheist who claims to be smarter and ask them, "smarter in what sense?" and determine the relevance of their answer to their argument.
 
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JackTheHatter

Banned
#34
Jul 22, 2015
154
0
0
#34
JoelG said:
It is Creation vs Evolution. If either was completely provable then it would be finite beyond a shadow of a doubt One is bases on Faith and the other on Science. Both sides make very good points. And, its really a stalemate. Every issue has been tossed back and forth since the beginning of time. And, there is smart opponents on both sides of the debate.
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How is it a stalemate? What good points are there for Creation? What do you even mean by Creation? (as it has been vaguely described in many different instances)
 
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convallaria

Banned
#35
Jul 1, 2015
584
9
0
#35
Dude653 said:
Dealing with an atheist is always an exercise in futility. First off bear in mind that you were talking to someone who believes he is intellectually superior to you and that he is just dealing with a stupid Christian. As Christians we base our beliefs on our Bible but when talking to someone who doesn't believe the Bible then you may as well be reading from a book about Bugs Bunny so this immediately becomes a moot point. Then they will ask you questions like why does God not do this or why does God do that. There are no correct answers to these questions as they will always have another irrelevant question loaded and ready to go. Finally they will always fall back on the indoctrination argument, claiming that we are only speaking from indoctrination. This is why our time is too precious to waste it on those who don't want to hear it.
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We were ALL effectively atheists before we were born again: that is why we need evangelism.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#36
Jul 3, 2015
56,758
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#36
I never considered myself an atheist. I always knew there was something, I just didn't know what it was. Calling it God was a convenience, but that does not mean I didn't think there was no God. I just thought most people (Christians especially) were wrong about God.
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#37
#37
Someone got bored with one post about Atheist so resurrected this one.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#38
Dec 9, 2011
13,813
1,740
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#38
IMO Atheist put all their trust in the five senses if they cant rationalize it through their 5 senses then they will not accept it so then I would say that if they are true atheist they will think that a person that believes in something they can not see is foolishness but to those that believe in faith its powerful.
 
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JackTheHatter

Banned
#39
Jul 22, 2015
154
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#39
seed_time_harvest said:
IMO Atheist put all their trust in the five senses if they cant rationalize it through their 5 senses then they will not accept it so then I would say that if they are true atheist they will think that a person that believes in something they can not see is foolishness but to those that believe in faith its powerful.
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I believe sympathy exists, even if it is an abstract concept. Just one example. Do you believe the multiverse is real?
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#40
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
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#40
JackTheHatter said:
I would certainly challenge any atheist who claims to be smarter and ask them, "smarter in what sense?" and determine the relevance of their answer to their argument.
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Key word is "claim". I find such atheists . . . humorous.
 
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