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This is such a great Calvinism vs Arminianism question. I don’t know the answer; the Bible supports both and somewhere between the two arguments I know there is a balance and the correct answer. There’s a great debate between Dr. Michael Brown and James White that deals with this issue. It is a great debate worth listening to. It’s on YouTube Dr. Michael Brown vs. James White Predestination. For the record I am in line with Dr. Brown in theology.
Oh another thing, the universe just keeps on going, it kind of stumps scientists who try to think how it all got there without God, especailly when all these anomolys are thrown up which go against scientic theory and principle, just think of all the cool space books and films we would also miss out on! No Doctor WHO? No!!!!!
Z
Greetings BCC
Firstly, glad you came to this board.
Secondly, I have to chuckle when I read this posit.
You're asking a human why God did something?
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Hebrews 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Hebrews 2:13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again:"Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."
Regards, Larry
I agree if that's true we are all in deep trouble.
You asked, ????? what is that about?
It appears to me from these reference that God’s original purpose before time began was to give Jesus brothers and sister in the Fathers heavenly Royal Family. :"Here am I and the children whom God has given Me." Since this is the way things turned out, born again, then this was His unique purpose. This was not a second plan because the first one failed. As far as the idea of free will and predestination is in the mind of God and His alone.
Its pretty clear that the physical Universe was created for the sole purpose of the conquest of evil.
Scripture tells us that the first war occurred in Heaven with Satan and his angels rebelling against Michael and his angels....after which, they were expelled from Heaven and sent to earth to continue this same war through us!
War is why we are here.
War is what we do.
The only problem is....is that we think that we are fighting each other, when, in fact, we are warring against the spiritual forces that existed before the Universe was created.
Put on all the armor of God, for you to be able to stand against the deceit of the Devil, because fighting against flesh and blood is not to us, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of the darkness of this age, against the spiritual powers of evil in the heavenly realms. Because of this, take up all of the armor of God that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having worked out all things, to stand. (Eph 6. 11 -13)
Z
Greetings brothers and sisters
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Hebrews 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Hebrews 2:13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again:"Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."
Let's see what pleases God
Did it please Him that he created all things as a human would look at his fish tank and see the beauty in it, or if that person had children and saw the beauty in them? Would it please God, of course it would, the creation he speaks of is a new creation in Christ, the children of God. Isn't this what it is all about, and why Jesus died for same.
I do find it strange that the scripture I presented were completely ignored since no one has a clue I believe concerning God’s extended family as His original purpose. And that one would have to die, the Son of God, to glorify in His creation for that reason. I would suggest reading those references, and put yourself as a born again child of God there within them. God sees the umbrella of Christ bringing this about, and it doesn’t cover the physical creation.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Hebrews 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Hebrews 2:13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again:"Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."
Let's see what pleases God
Did it please Him that he created all things as a human would look at his fish tank and see the beauty in it, or if that person had children and saw the beauty in them? Would it please God, of course it would, the creation he speaks of is a new creation in Christ, the children of God. Isn't this what it is all about, and why Jesus died for same.
I do find it strange that the scripture I presented were completely ignored since no one has a clue I believe concerning God’s extended family as His original purpose. And that one would have to die, the Son of God, to glorify in His creation for that reason. I would suggest reading those references, and put yourself as a born again child of God there within them. God sees the umbrella of Christ bringing this about, and it doesn’t cover the physical creation.
Z
If Adam, his wife and offspring remained sinless, righteous, would there be a heavenly resurrection.
Was the first advent of Christ a backup plan by God, who perhaps was surprised when Adam ate the forbidden fruit, and then put it, that plan. into actions? Genesis 3:15
When did Jesus or the Apostle’s communicate a sinless earth as the Gospel message? The Good News 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
I believe there was no modification of God plan, who is unchangeable.
So the question of suffering comes into the picture, one writer expressed it this way: We see the outworking of God's plan now as a person viewing a beautiful tapestry from the backside. It appears not to make any complete pattern, with a colored thread running this way, and another color another way, etc. But when we get to see it from the heavenly view, the front side, as Christ does now, and as his followers will see later, it is a beautiful, intricate and excellently designed pattern.
Was the first advent of Christ a backup plan by God, who perhaps was surprised when Adam ate the forbidden fruit, and then put it, that plan. into actions? Genesis 3:15
When did Jesus or the Apostle’s communicate a sinless earth as the Gospel message? The Good News 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
I believe there was no modification of God plan, who is unchangeable.
So the question of suffering comes into the picture, one writer expressed it this way: We see the outworking of God's plan now as a person viewing a beautiful tapestry from the backside. It appears not to make any complete pattern, with a colored thread running this way, and another color another way, etc. But when we get to see it from the heavenly view, the front side, as Christ does now, and as his followers will see later, it is a beautiful, intricate and excellently designed pattern.
E
Psalm 147:4"He counts the number of the stars, He calls them all by name."
"Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together" (Isaiah 48:13).
he calls to us surly there's others
"Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together" (Isaiah 48:13).
he calls to us surly there's others
Z
I totally agree it reason why God created the universe. Since this is in the making, children being born again day by day, it gives witness to that very purpose.
This obviously wasn’t a backup plan because the first couple fell, since God never changes and neither does His Son.
Hebrews 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Please read Romans 8:13-30
This obviously wasn’t a backup plan because the first couple fell, since God never changes and neither does His Son.
Hebrews 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Please read Romans 8:13-30