Why did John the babtist started baptising?

[Guojing]

Start your own thread and I'll answer there.

I was curious whether you understood the context of John 3:3 in your first reply.

But its okay, you are free not to share.

 

[Aidan1]

I don't recall reading before in the old testament about anyone being babtised. How or why did John started baptising? The scripture did not say he received a command or revelation from God to do so.

Since salvation is apart of being born again under the new covenant, why was it being done before the death of Jesus Christ?

Then you should read Luke chapter 3,1-2.

 

[Moses_Young]

I don't recall reading before in the old testament about anyone being babtised. How or why did John started baptising? The scripture did not say he received a command or revelation from God to do so.

In the Old Testament, circumcision was the covenant sign rather than baptism, and represented a covenant with God - a new man. I think God must have given John the command to baptise, as although the Israelites were circumcised in flesh, mostly their hearts were calloused and uncircumcised. John was preparing the way for the coming king Jesus, preaching repentance and providing baptism to symbolise the required changing of the heart.

Since salvation is apart of being born again under the new covenant, why was it being done before the death of Jesus Christ?

John's was a baptism of repentance, whereas those baptised into Christ are baptised with the Holy Spirit. I believe that by Jesus being baptised, it is an example that Christians can't argue against. If John hadn't been baptising (and Jesus therefore wasn't baptised), perhaps many Christians might argue that baptism is not a Christian symbol?

 

[Wansvic]

Under the gospel of the kingdom preached to Israel only, water baptism is a requirement for salvation.

As stated in the scripture below, God makes no distinction between Jews and Gentiles they received the same gospel message through the mouth of Peter. Peter further stated that both groups would be saved in the same way.

This truth is seen in Acts 2 and 10. Each group received the infilling of the Holy Ghost and were then commanded to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 15:7-8
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 15:10
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

 

[Wansvic]

Gentiles are included in the "all nations." is one of the popular misinterpretations of the Matthew's version of the GC.

Peter's response to Cornelius in Acts 10:28 and his explanation to the Jewish believers in Acts 11 would make no sense, if that was how Matthew 28 was to be understood.

Jesus gave that specific command regardless of whether the hearers understood at that time to whom He was referring. The actions or Acts of the Apostles makes it clear exactly who Jesus was referring to.

Something to keep in mind is that the Jews were to hear the gospel first, and afterward the Gentiles. (Rom. 1:16) This truth is born out in Acts 2, 8 and 10. Peter was sent to each group. And each group received the Holy Ghost and were commanded to be water baptized in Jesus' name.

Lastly, it is important to remember that a command is not a suggestion.

 

[Wansvic]

So in the end, do you agree that good works are for rewards, but our salvation does not depend on works?

That is really the key in this discussion.

Obeying God's command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is a necessary component of the NT spiritual rebirth. It has nothing to do with the good works required to receive rewards when one enters eternity.

 

[Wansvic]

Baptism, in one form or another, was part of the Jewish way for a long time before John the Baptist. You can "search" the history of baptism to get some info/scriptural references I suppose.

The New Testament water baptism differed from all OT washings; mikveh, etc. It was a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (Mark 1:4) John's baptism as it was called later required the use of the name of the Lord Jesus Christ after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. (Luke 24:47) A bible search of each water baptism recorded will attest to this truth.

Mark 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luke 24:46-47
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

 

[Guojing]

Obeying God's command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is a necessary component of the NT spiritual rebirth. It has nothing to do with the good works required to receive rewards when one enters eternity.

But water baptism is still a work in your view, correct?

If so, what you believe is that water baptism is a necessary work to be saved.

 

[Guojing]

As stated in the scripture below, God makes no distinction between Jews and Gentiles they received the same gospel message through the mouth of Peter. Peter further stated that both groups would be saved in the same way.

This truth is seen in Acts 2 and 10. Each group received the infilling of the Holy Ghost and were then commanded to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 15:7-8
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 15:10
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

That only happened after the fall of Israel in Acts 7.

Prior to that, Israel was still God's favored nation and gentiles needed to enter the covenant thru Israel.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

John's was a baptism of repentance, whereas those baptised into Christ are baptised with the Holy Spirit. I believe that by Jesus being baptised, it is an example that Christians can't argue against. If John hadn't been baptising (and Jesus therefore wasn't baptised), perhaps many Christians might argue that baptism is not a Christian symbol?

Precious friend, some of us are Not arguing Against anything, simply pointing out
From The Rightly Divided Scriptures, The Following Points:

Under God's Prophecy/Law earthly Program FOR ISRAEL:
----------------------------- = TWO baptisms
(1) John's baptism was a "baptism of repentance FOR the remission of sins!"
Plus, Peter Continued The Same preaching of THIS baptism After The Cross!
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30;
Acts 10:37; Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16;
Ezekiel 36:25).

(2) The Other Baptism For ISRAEL Is "WITH" The Holy Spirit for
POWER demonstrating miracles, signs, And wonders!
(Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke 24:49; Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16).

(3) Deeper "study" Also teaches us that God's Chosen Nation Of Israel
was to be "a nation of priests Unto God," of which "John's baptism is
a Necessary Requirement of God's Three Requirements for the
priesthood! {see #'s 4, 9, & 10 here: 12 baptisms}

4) Although the New Covenant was Enabled By The "Death Of The
Testator On The Cross," The Implementation Of It Is Still Yet FUTURE,
After Great Tribulation And The Second Coming Of CHRIST, Upon Which
All Israel Will Be Saved, And THEN "God Will Implement HIS New
Covenant WITH The house of ISRAEL, And With the house Of JUDAH!"
(Jeremiah 31 : 31-33 KJB!)
God's Prophecy/Law earthly Program {Currently "On HOLD!" Will Continue...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15 KJB!) FROM "Things That Differ!":

After The Great GRACE Departure Of The Body Of CHRIST below...}

...God's Mystery/GRACE Heavenly Program FOR The Body Of CHRIST:
(1) Has NO physical water baptism, But spiritually, Only ONE Baptism,
"BY" The Holy Spirit to "Translate us Into The Body Of CHRIST!"
(Ephesians 4 : 5; 1 Corinthians 12 : 13; Colossians 1 : 13 KJB!)

(2) Paul is "the apostle to the Gentiles," And, The Body Of CHRIST
Has NO Mention of any priesthood In Any of his Letters From God!
(Romans - Philemon KJB!)

(3) Since God Has NO "Covenant with the Gentiles," This Current
Dispensation Is Of HIS PURE GRACE! (Romans - Philemon KJB!)
God's Mystery/GRACE Program, Ending at the rapture...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15 KJB!) FROM "Things That Differ!":

...God's Prophecy/Law earthly Program Will Continue!...
------------------------------------------------
Notes:
2 Different Gospels FOR These Programs are Here !
More Distinctions for Them are Here !

Be Very Richly Blessed!

See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ↑ ♫

 

[Wansvic]

But water baptism is still a work in your view, correct?

If so, what you believe is that water baptism is a necessary work to be saved.

Obedience to God's commands directly associated with the NT spiritual rebirth differ from works associated with the OT law. I believe many confuse the two. The bible records repentance is a necessary component of one's salvation. And all must receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Wansvic]

That only happened after the fall of Israel in Acts 7.

Prior to that, Israel was still God's favored nation and gentiles needed to enter the covenant thru Israel.

I'm not sure your point. I agree the Gentiles were grafted in.

In accordance with the word the same gospel message was to be given to both Jew and Gentile. (Romans 1:16) Notice as well in Romans 1:17, God's way of righteousness is revealed from faith to faith. One step of faith, leads to another, and another, and so on: belief in the message, need for repentance, obedience to water baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost. Albeit the last two; water baptism and Holy Ghost infilling may not always occur in the same timing. See Acts 2 and 10 versus Acts 8 and 19.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Rom. 1:16-17