Why did the Most High God create sin?

[2ndTimothyGroup]

"Why did the Most High God create sin?"

Power. The Mysterious Plan of God has always had a quiet focus on Power. It is the Power of God to change a person . . . it is the Power of God that overcomes. God allowed, or created sin so that His Power would be known by defeating it (and making all things right for those who Trust in Him alone.)

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Wrong, God created beings who CREATED SIN. You are not up to speed on the ways things work.

When the Lord created Evil, was He not taking responsibility for it? Is that not the Holy Purpose of Christ, to be the remedy for the Evil that the Lord created and allowed? Did not the Lord reward Job for enduring the Evil that the Lord allowed to take place within the life of Job? Was not the Lord in total control? Is this not a reflection of the Workings of Christ?

Isaiah 45:7 KJV - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]."

We know these things are True, for the Lord Himself placed Israel into a "deep sleep," and doesn't this "sleep" mean, or at least result in sin? And when the Word tells us that God did these things, how is this not the Lord taking full responsibility for it?

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

And because God placed Israel into a deep sleep, did this not result in Israel, cooking, eating, and then hiding the bodies of their own children so that they could eat them later? Wives hid their cooked children from the remaining family members. Imagine that! Is this not sin? And does not God take full responsibility for it?

Ezekiel 5:9-10 NLT - "Because of your detestable idols, I will punish you like I have never punished anyone before or ever will again. 10 Parents will eat their own children, and children will eat their parents. I will punish you and scatter to the winds the few who survive."

Parents ate their own children to their own horror. God caused them to commit such incredible, sinful acts. And if it were not for the Lord, they would not have made these horrific decisions, but instead, the parents would have remained loving and good to their children . . . which is to die to keep their children alive! That is what a normal, healthy, Jewish set of parents would do for their children . . . they would die for them. But instead, the Lord caused these same Jewish men and women to actually cook, eat, and then hide the bodies for later consumption.

Isn't that amazing to think about? God caused them to ponder . . . "Hmmmm . . . shall I eat Mary's lips, next? Or, her eyeballs? What part of my daughter shall I eat next?"

God creates evil. The highly beloved KJV tells us this plainly.

I dunno . . . food for thought. The Lord operates in mysterious ways!

 

[Scarlett7297]

If you took the time to study this in-depth (which I have) you would know God is saying he brings Blessings and Cursings. Look again, then think it through, I create the light and the Darkness ( opposites right? ) I create Peace and I create Evil but it really means Strife, or I bring forth bad tidings. In other words, God is Peace, if we abide in Him His Peace falls upon us, if we don't then the strife of life without God comes upon us. What does PEACE have to do with the Creation of Evil? Nothing.

I use a KJV/Hebrew Massoretic Bible, thus I can hover over all of these words and get the origin of the meaning.

7451 רָע ra` {rah}

from H7489; TWOT - 2191a,2191c

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

adj
1) bad, evil
1a) bad, disagreeable, malignant
1b) bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
1c) evil, displeasing
1d) bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)
1e) bad (of value)
1f) worse than, worst (comparison)
1g) sad, unhappy
1h) evil (hurtful)
1i) bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
1j) bad, evil, wicked (ethically)
1j1) in general, of persons, of thoughts
1j2) deeds, actions
n m
2) evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
2a) evil, distress, adversity
2b) evil, injury, wrong
2c) evil (ethical)
n f
3) evil, misery, distress, injury
3a) evil, misery, distress
3b) evil, injury, wrong
3c) evil (ethical)

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun:—adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra'ah; as adjective or noun.]

Evil is tied in with the word, but the Hebrew had only 4000 words and no vowels, YOWM means Day, but it also meant any disruption of TIME, year, Month, a Period of Time, thus God Created the Universe of 7 Periods of time, not 7 days. Likewise, a does mean Evil. but God is not saying He created Evil, he's saying he brings Distress, Calamity, Misery, or in general BAD THINGS against those who come against Him in any wise. Peace is brought by God to whom? Those that trust in Him. Distress is brought by God against whom? Those who do not trust in Him, it has nothing to do with the Origins of Sin.

2 points of what you wrote that i would like to touch upon :

- BAD THINGS against those who come against Him

- wicked, (-ly, -ness, one)

So you mean to say He creates wicked (wickedly , wickedness , wicked one) ?
And how did you elaborate the verse in this way.... BAD THINGS against those who come against Him

Through a Bible study? Please give me the source of your study. I would like to see for myself.

 

[Scarlett7297]

"Why did the Most High God create sin?"

Power. The Mysterious Plan of God has always had a quiet focus on Power. It is the Power of God to change a person . . . it is the Power of God that overcomes. God allowed, or created sin so that His Power would be known by defeating it (and making all things right for those who Trust in Him alone.)

If I defeat what I create , whom am i impressing with my power? Another creation of mine? WHY?
My answer to this could be - Maybe God wants to set an example of what happens to evildoers for their evil doings. But whoops, Didn't He create sin in the first place ...? Whaat?

 

[Scarlett7297]

The issue for many, (including me), is the "all knowing" God. An issue I personally have put behind me because it's above my understanding and it gets in the way of my faith. I have faith that my Lord will give me that understanding in a future time if I remain loyal to him, which I promise. Understanding by scripture much invited. Did God know even before he created Satan what his spiritual mental evolution would be?

I would be happy if this were the reality that our limited human brain did not make up a story about God misusing His power and instead there is a far better alternative explanation to all the suffering and evil and sins than "God created sin' because it just doesn't sound right no matter what.

 

[Scarlett7297]

Sin is not a "thing". God created us with the ability to think, but He does not give us our thoughts. We produce them. It is possible for evil spirits to plant thoughts in our minds. God does not work that way. God does not create sin. We have the capacity to sin because God gave us free will. There is a world of difference.

I want to know the birth/origin of the evil spirits.

 

[Scarlett7297]

God pronounced creation as "good" at every step until Eve
was made, at which point He pronounced it "very good."

Indeed.

 

[Scarlett7297]

If we have no free will, their would be no sin, because everything we did would be in Gods will

IF WE HAVE NO FREE WILL/IF WE ARE PREDESTINED , THERE WOULD BE NO SIN!BECAUSE EVERYTHING WE DID WOULD BE IN GOD'S WILL.

 

[Scarlett7297]

Allowing sin (an action or choice) to occur is not synonymous with 'creating' sin.

I could create a car for you and allow you to drive it without telling you or forcing you to drive it off a cliff.

If that was so, then that verse should have said "allow" instead of "create. And since it says 'create' - it means it's something CREATED. Whether it is evil or a "calamity".

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

If I defeat what I create , whom am i impressing with my power? Another creation of mine? WHY?
My answer to this could be - Maybe God wants to set an example of what happens to evildoers for their evil doings. But whoops, Didn't He create sin in the first place ...? Whaat?

Read the Bible in a timeline, chronological order and I'm sure that you'll formulate similar ideas. I get it . . . I didn't read the Old Testament for the first time until I was 49 years old myself.

The Bible: Timeline, Chronological Order

 

[Diakonos]

Because of a book I read called 'Genesis'.

Do you think everything that was created is in the Genesis account?

 

[Blik]

God never created sin because sin is not a material thing that can be created. Sin is a product of the evil that is within the human heart. God wills evil to exist (for a time and a season) in order to bring about His plans and purposes. So great is His love for us that He would allow us to make the choice to have a relationship with Him, even if it meant we could also choose not to have a relationship with Him. He wants us to desire Him. Where there is no free will, there can be no love.

I agree.

When God created the world, God made it so there is up and up needs a down to have an up. There is good, and there must be evil to have good.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I agree.

When God created the world, God made it so there is up and up needs a down to have an up. There is good, and there must be evil to have good.

Exactly. And this is the Point of the Bible . . . for Christ to defeat Satan and his minions . . . as though they were lightning bolts falling from the sky.

Colossians 2:11, 15 NLT - 11 "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. ... 15 "In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

Jesus saw something like this happen after Jesus gave His Disciples the ability to defeat Evil (and possibly give the privilege to "cut away" the Sin Nature from a person's Heart) . . .

Luke 10:17-18 KJV - 17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

 

[Mem]

God said he created evil; distress; misery; injury; calamity... but I'm not sold that 'sin' is included in that definition of evil or wickedness, as I am convinced that what is included as synonymous toward the definition of sin are wickedness and/or perversion ( such as of truth (lie); faithfulness (adultery); purity, etc., and upon further contemplation of what other 'good' might be susceptible to perversion, I'm inclined to think even evil might qualify into that category. So, in conclusion, perverts 'create' sin, though it would be more accurate to say 'attempt to 'recreate' God's creation by distorting all that is good to bend toward their own will... but that only brings calamity; evil, misery, injury, calamity, et al.

And yes, that means all y'all are perverts...

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

God said he created evil; distress; misery; injury; calamity... but I'm not sold that 'sin' is included in that definition of evil or wickedness, as I am convinced that what is included as synonymous toward the definition of sin are wickedness and/or perversion ( such as of truth (lie); faithfulness (adultery); purity, etc., and upon further contemplation of what other 'good' might be susceptible to perversion, I'm inclined to think even evil might qualify into that category. So, in conclusion, perverts 'create' sin, though it would be more accurate to say 'attempt to 'recreate' God's creation by distorting all that is good to bend toward their own will... but that only brings calamity; evil, misery, injury, calamity, et al.

And yes, that means all y'all are perverts...

Do you believe that God takes full responsibility for the evil work of Judas Iscariot?

And what about king Saul? Did not the Lord send an evil Spirit to cause him to do all sorts of evil things . . . the things of which Samuel perfectly predicted? And is not the Lord in control of all world events? And is not the Lord the one who sets up kings and takes them down?

1 Samuel 16:14 ESV - "Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him."

Luke 22:3 NLT - "Then Satan entered into Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve disciples," - And what if the Lord had not allowed to Judas to sin, exactly as the Lord did not allow king Abimelech to "lay a sexual hand" upon Abraham's wife?

Genesis 20:4-6 NLT - "But Abimelech had not slept with her yet, so he said, "Lord, will you destroy an innocent nation? Didn't Abraham tell me, 'She is my sister'? And she herself said, 'Yes, he is my brother.' I acted in complete innocence! My hands are clean." In the dream God responded, "Yes, I know you are innocent. That's why I kept you from sinning against me, and why I did not let you touch her."

But as said, it is the Lord who sets up all world events.

Daniel 2:21 NLT - "He controls the course of world events; he removes kings and sets up other kings. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the scholars . . ."

It is an interesting topic, for sure.

 

[TheLearner]

Amen.

Sin is disobedience towards God, God did not create sin.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Sin is disobedience towards God, God did not create sin.

Does not evil equate to sin? No doubt, unless there is a massive error in the Purpose of the Bible, the Lord created evil.

 

[soberxp]

IF you create T-800 for home work,then T-800 kill you, will you say that you create Evil ?

 

[Mem]

Do you believe that God takes full responsibility for the evil work of Judas Iscariot?

And what about king Saul? Did not the Lord send an evil Spirit to cause him to do all sorts of evil things . . . the things of which Samuel perfectly predicted? And is not the Lord in control of all world events? And is not the Lord the one who sets up kings and takes them down?

1 Samuel 16:14 ESV - "Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him."

Luke 22:3 NLT - "Then Satan entered into Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve disciples," - And what if the Lord had not allowed to Judas to sin, exactly as the Lord did not allow king Abimelech to "lay a sexual hand" upon Abraham's wife?

Genesis 20:4-6 NLT - "But Abimelech had not slept with her yet, so he said, "Lord, will you destroy an innocent nation? Didn't Abraham tell me, 'She is my sister'? And she herself said, 'Yes, he is my brother.' I acted in complete innocence! My hands are clean." In the dream God responded, "Yes, I know you are innocent. That's why I kept you from sinning against me, and why I did not let you touch her."

But as said, it is the Lord who sets up all world events.

Daniel 2:21 NLT - "He controls the course of world events; he removes kings and sets up other kings. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the scholars . . ."

It is an interesting topic, for sure.

Interesting, yes. Our definitions don't seem to be agreeing though. If one considers evil as being the source of sin, then does it follow correctly that God is the source of sin? This appears to be the premise of the OP. You may agree, though I can not in good conscience without further persuasion.

keeping from sin doesn't equate causing to sin, that might be better attributed to the serpent.
God does determine the effects of sin, which is evil, if it were not for His grace and mercy.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Interesting, yes. Our definitions don't seem to be agreeing though. If one considers evil as being the source of sin, then does it follow correctly that God is the source of sin? This appears to be the premise of the OP. You may agree, though I can not in good conscience without further persuasion.

keeping from sin doesn't equate causing to sin, that might be better attributed to the serpent.
God does determine the effects of sin, which is evil, if it were not for His grace and mercy.

Ok, but you didn't address the fact that God sent an evil Spirit to not only torment Saul, but to also cause him to hunt down king David, the Father of Christ, the Incorruptible Seed. If God takes responsibility for Saul, and He does, then he is responsible for the sin that ensued. God doesn't have a problem with this . . . for He makes all things right. This is what the entire Bible is about . . . redeeming His Chosen ones as the theme of His Eternal Plan.