Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?

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CS1

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May 23, 2012
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No. I have never one time said hell is figurative or not literal nor that it is not eternal. I said the devil being tortured in hell forever was symbolic yet you claimed I said hell was symbolic. The devil is not immortal. He cannot survive being in hell fire. He will at some point be burned up and not one atom of his being will exist.
FYI the devil is a spiritual being with no physical body to burn. Hell is a literal supernatural place. Your human reasoning did not account for this fire or location. If the torment of the devil for eternity is "symbolic" why did Jesus not say that? You place God in a box to meet your human reasoning. God made Hell for the devil who is a spiritual being and God who is Eternal the Self-Existent One

Knows how to create and make things to be eternal. Here is a little Biblical context of Eternal, you can look up, and please don't use Greek one-word violations to make up a context of a text.

Here:

God is Eternal
Jesus is Eternal
Salvation is Eternal
Judgment is Eternal
Hell was made to hold the devil for Eternity

NONE of the above is symbolic, or Figurative all are Literal and supernatural beyond human comprehension.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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It is not a parable. Parables are specified in the Bible. The title says Lazarus and the rich man. Not the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. It is a vision not some kind of a story. Abraham and Moses are real and not in a parable. And the Bible is not silent. The dead in hell will be thrown to the lake of fire in the end so it is the final destination of the rich man and he will be tormented forever.
The overall context for why the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is actually a parable depends on who Jesus is speaking to.

Beginning in Luke 14, the audience who were present were:

Luke 14:1 1And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.

Luke 14:25
25And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,

Luke 15:1
1Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

Luke 16:14
14And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

Then in Luke 16:19-31 Jesus teaches the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

So how do we know the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is in fact a parable? Jesus spoke in parables to those who were not His disciples to fulfill prophecy:

Matthew 13:10-14
10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Who was Jesus speaking to then? Pharisees, a great multitude of people, publicans, and sinners. Therefore, the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable.
 

CS1

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The overall context for why the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is actually a parable depends on who Jesus is speaking to.

Beginning in Luke 14, the audience who were present were:

Luke 14:1 1And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.

Luke 14:25
25And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,

Luke 15:1
1Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

Luke 16:14
14And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

Then in Luke 16:19-31 Jesus teaches the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

So how do we know the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is in fact a parable? Jesus spoke in parables to those who were not His disciples to fulfill prophecy:

Matthew 13:10-14
10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Who was Jesus speaking to then? Pharisees, a great multitude of people, publicans, and sinners. Therefore, the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable.

what is a Parable? it is a Spiritual truth told in a story.

Why did Jesus speak in parables? He told us that too.

The answer is in Matthew 13, Mark 4, and Luke 8

Matthew 13:10-16



10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
11 He answered and said to them, Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not
perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears
are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have
closed,
Lest they should see with
their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with
their hearts and turn,
So that I
should[fn] heal them.’[fn]

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
 

Tinkerbell725

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Jul 19, 2014
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Philippines Age 40
The overall context for why the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is actually a parable depends on who Jesus is speaking to.

Beginning in Luke 14, the audience who were present were:

Luke 14:1 1And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.

Luke 14:25
25And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,

Luke 15:1
1Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

Luke 16:14
14And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

Then in Luke 16:19-31 Jesus teaches the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

So how do we know the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is in fact a parable? Jesus spoke in parables to those who were not His disciples to fulfill prophecy:

Matthew 13:10-14
10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Who was Jesus speaking to then? Pharisees, a great multitude of people, publicans, and sinners. Therefore, the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable.


It is history or actual events not just a parable. Hell is real. Abrahams bosom is real. You want it to be a parable to support your doctrine of annihilation. In parables, Jesus did not mention names. They were all hypothetical and illustrative stories. It is not the same with the parables at all. It does not use the principle of comparison in a way that is characteristic of parables. The discussion between the rich man and Abraham is not consistent with the parabolic style found in Scriptures.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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It is history or actual events not just a parable. Hell is real. Abrahams bosom is real. You want it to be a parable to support your doctrine of annihilation. In parables, Jesus did not mention names. They were all hypothetical and illustrative stories. It is not the same with the parables at all. It does not use the principle of comparison in a way that is characteristic of parables. The discussion between the rich man and Abraham is not consistent with the parabolic style found in Scriptures.
It is not necessary to prove that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable to support the Biblical doctrine of annihilation since Luke 16:19-31 never once mentions anything whatsoever about anything eternal. You add to the Word of God if you say the rich man is in eternal torment. Simple as that.

The commonly acceptable definition of what a parable is, is simply a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels. They do not have to be unnamed generalizations to qualify as a parable.

The proof I showed you that Jesus spoke in parables to people who weren't His disciples should be more than enough to prove to you. Jesus spoke in parables, that's the bottom line.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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I am telling you my KJV 1611 has titles. You want a picture?
Your titles were added later. They are not part of the original script/text.

I do appreciate your offer, though. Does Luke 12:13-21 have a title?

What about Luke 7:40-50?
 

TheLearner

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The difference is that we put on Christ's immortality. We are not born with it.

"You must be born again."
I outlined I Cor 15 last night. Here is what I found out.

V1 greetings to christians
v3-11 Our witness to the resurrection
v12-17 Resurrection in General
v 18 If Jesus was not Resurrected, lets go out and party all is lost.
v19-21 continues where vs 12-17 left off
v22-25 Everyone dies due to Adam will be made alive, Resurrected Everyone include unsaved.
discussion at some point does a mixture between saved and unsaved.
v26 Death is eliminated, destroyed. Therefore the Second death can not be going out of existence.
v29 Baptism for the dead Some scholars claim it is outside the church others go all over the place with speculation
v30-32 persecuted for christ
vs33-34 warning about bad company
v 35-49
Someone asks how the dead in general comes back to life.
v50 says that only the unsaved do not go to heaven
v51-55 speaks of Resurrected bodies in General.
v57-58 work for the Lord in the meantime.

50 What I am saying, brothers and sisters, is this: Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor can corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Listen, I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. 53 For this corruptible body must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal body must be clothed with immortality. 54 When this corruptible body is clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal body is clothed with immortality, then the saying that is written will take place:
 

Magenta

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v26 Death is eliminated, destroyed. Therefore the Second death can not be going out of existence.
Death is the last enemy to be destroyed. The faithless are destroyed (2nd death in LoF) before that.

And good day :D
 

TheLearner

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What part of them? Their bodies have turned to dust, and the dead know nothing (no consciousness.)
I already pointed out that the dead do not know what is happening to those on the surface of the earth. Start reading in context rather then listen to man or woman who is teaching false doctrine.

Revelation of scripture is progressive

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar those who had been slaughtered on account of the word of God and the witness they had given. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “Holy and true Master, how long will you wait before you pass judgment? How long before you require justice for our blood, which was shed by those who live on earth?” 11 Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to rest a little longer, until their fellow servants and brothers and sisters—who were about to be killed as they were—were finished.

From the context of your proof text:


Ecclesiastes 9:63 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.


7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.


The context speaks of their separation from the surface of the earth. A phrase ripped from context makes poor doctrine. Esp,., when you are quoting a mad man when he wrote the book.

It is well known that the author was depressed and insane at the time of writing that book.


Ecclesiastes 1

King James Version



1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.


The author's attitude is complete despair !!!!

Isa 14 proves beyond doubt of a honest person that the dead are aware of their surroundings in the grave. Luke 16 also proves that.
 

TheLearner

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Death is the last enemy to be destroyed. The faithless are destroyed (2nd death in LoF) before that.

And good day :D
Revelation 2:11

King James Version



11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:14
King James Version
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Yes, it does say death is thrown into the fire. But, it does not say that is where death is ruined.

It is with the Resurrection as I Cor 15:26 proves.

I already posted the list related to I cor15:26

One of which was
ASV
The last enemy that shall be abolished is death

ISV
The last enemy to be done away with is death

TLB
including the last enemy—death. This too must be defeated and ended

When no one can be separated from body and spirit as James says that is when death is over.


And the last enemy to be subdued and eliminated is death itself


the last enemy is done away -- death;
 

TheLearner

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The terms "eternal", "everlasting" and "forever and ever" are in the NT concerning torment in fire. Why would God insist that it's "eternal", "everlasting" and "forever and ever" if it will end? To deny the "eternal Hell fire" is totally false hope and can only lead to DIRE consequences.
God is eternal, that is why the punishment is eternal.
 
Aug 20, 2021
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The terms "eternal", "everlasting" and "forever and ever" are in the NT concerning torment in fire. Why would God insist that it's "eternal", "everlasting" and "forever and ever" if it will end? To deny the "eternal Hell fire" is totally false hope and can only lead to DIRE consequences.
because the bible is not like a cook book do this get this its a hidden treasure[consider the meaning of israel 2 contend with god]
 

TheLearner

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How do you know God did this? You're told by a church that created Hell that God did this.

Think about what they're asking you to accept about a loving creator.
God created imperfect humans after he chose which ones he'd save from himself and before he created the world where they'd come to fall from his grace in the garden he made for that purpose. Then he created a place of eternal suffering to receive those imperfect humans he'd created to be that way, because they weren't the one's he'd named to save in his Book of eternal life.

Christianity is grounded in Judaism which came first. There is no Hell as Christians believe to exist in Judaism.

"The doctrine of hell is an evil doctrine that originated from pagan mythology, but the Roman Catholic church used it to put fear in to the minds of people only for control. It is documented that many Roman Catholic officials would charge fees for the forgiveness of sins and for the indulgence of certain sins."
The Origin of Hell | The Real Gospel of Christ

Sorry the doctrine of Hell existed hundreds of years before annihilation.

"The sulfurous smell of the Tiberian medicinal springs was ascribed to their connection with Gehenna. In Isa. lxvi. 16, 24 it is said that God judges by means of fire. Gehenna is dark in spite of the immense masses of fire; it is like night (Yeb. 109b; comp. Job x. 22). The same idea also occurs in Enoch, x. 4, lxxxii. 2; Matt. viii. 12, xxii. 13, xxv. 30 "
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7534-hell

"
HERESY AND HERETICS:
By: Kaufmann Kohler, Executive Committee of the Editorial Board., Julius H. Greenstone
Table of Contents
The Greek term άίρεσις originally denoted "division," "sect," "religious" or "philosophical party," and is applied by Josephus ("B. J." ii. 8, § 1, and elsewhere) to the three Jewish sects—Sadducees, Pharisees, and Essenes (comp. Acts v. 17, xxvi. 5, and, with reference to the Christian sect, the άίρεσις of the Nazarenes, xxiv. 5, 14; xxviii. 22). In the sense of a schism to be deprecated the word occurs in I Cor. xi. 19, Gal. v. 20, and particularly in II Peter ii. 1; hence αἱρετικὸς ("heretic") in the sense of "factious" (Titus ii. 10). The specific rabbinical term for heresies, or religious divisions due to an unlawful spirit, is "minim" (lit. "kinds [of belief]"; the singular "min," for "heretic" or "Gnostic," is coined idiomatically, like "goy" and "'am ha-areẓ"; see Gnosticism). The law "Ye shall not cut yourselves" (
) is interpreted by the Rabbis: "Ye shall not form divisions [
], but shall form one bond" (after Amos ix. 6 [A. V. "troop"]; Sifre, Deut. 96; comp. Jew. Encyc. iv. 592, s.v. Didascalia, Book VI.).
Besides the term "min" for "heretic," the Talmud uses the words "ḥiẓonim" (outsiders), "apiḳoros," and "kofer ba-Torah" (R. H. 17a), or "kofer ba-'iḳḳar" (he who denies the fundamentals of faith; Pes. xxiv. 168b); also "poresh mi-darke ẓibbur" (he who deviates from the customs of the community; Tosef., Sanh. xiii. 5; R. H. 17a). Of all these it is said that they are consigned to Gehinnom for all eternity (Tosef., Sanh. l.c.; comp. ib. xii. 9, apparently belonging to xiii. 5: "He who casts off the yoke [of the Law], and he who severs the Abrahamic covenant; he who interprets the Torah against the halakic tradition, and he who pronounces in full the Ineffable Name—all these have no share in the world to come").
The Mishnah (Sanh. x. 1) says the following have no share in the world to come: "He who denies that the Torah is divinely revealed [lit. "comes from Heaven"], and the apiḳoros." R. Akiba says, "also he who reads heretical books" ("sefarim ḥiẓonim"). This is explained in the Talmud (Sanh. 100b) to mean "sifre Ẓeduḳim" (Sadducean writings); but this is an alteration by the censor of "sifre ha-Minim" (books of the Gnostics or Heretics). The Biblical version, "That ye seek not after your own heart" (Num. xv. 39), is explained (Sifre, Num. 115; Ber. 12b) as "Ye shall not turn to heretic views ["minut"] which lead your heart away from God" (see Maimonides, "Yad," 'Akkum, ii. 3).
In summarizing the Talmudic statements concerning heretics in Sanh. 90-103, Maimonides ("Yad," Teshubah, iii. 6-8) says:
"The following have no share in the world to come, but are cut off, and perish, and receive their punishment for all time for their great sin: the minim, the apiḳoresim, they that deny the belief in the Torah, they that deny the belief in resurrection of the dead and in the coming of the Redeemer, the apostates, they that lead many to sin, they that turn away from the ways of the [Jewish] community. Five are called 'minim': (1) he who says there is no God and the world has no leader; (2) he who says the world has more than one leader; (3) he who ascribes to the Lord of the Universe a body and a figure; (4) he who says that God was not alone and Creator of all things at the world's beginning; (5) he who worships some star or constellation as an intermediating power between himself and the Lord of the World.
"
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7591-heresy-and-heretics



Retired Bishop Explains Why The Catholic Church Invented Hell
 
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Where islam means to submissive to god[A good soldiers] god desire mercy & sacrfice of self but not others in your place
 

TheLearner

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No doubt those words have their place within the Bible, but context and grammar matters. Which verse says all non-believers in Christ are tormented forever?
again matthew 25:46

1 Cor 15:53
All men's bodies will become immortal at the resurrection
 

TheLearner

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You've never heard of the "FEAR OF GOD"??? It's in every Bible.
Genesis 20:11
And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
Genesis 22:12
And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Genesis 42:18
And Joseph said unto them the third day, This do, and live; for I fear God:
Exodus 1:17
But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

There are many more verses. In Hebrew the concept of fearing God is grave respect for him.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=fear+God&version=KJV
 
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Yes and No God is not willing that anyone would parish.Vs even the wicked 4 the day of judgement