Why Do Christians Ignore Most of the Old Testament Rules?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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You seemed to imply you disagree with Total Depravity. So you believe then humans
aren't that depraved, right? That we have some measure of spiritual ability?
The natural born man is hostile toward God...
 

Reformed1689

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Jun 1, 2018
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I believe that verse is in relation to the deeper things of God , not the Gospel. Its the mature wisdom mature believers can recieve .
Seems kind of arbitrary my friend. Inconvenient verse gets a new meaning. :p
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I believe that verse is in relation to the deeper things of God , not the Gospel. Its the mature wisdom mature believers can recieve .
That is not what is says though. The gospel is foolishness to the natural man.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Granting repentance is less in terms of granting permission and more in terms of receiving a grant. It's the act of giving it to someone.
Then ALL jews are saved and ALL gentiles are saved then ? As repentence is Granted to ' Jews ' and ' Gentiles ' Not some Jews and some gentiles. I take it your not a universalist??
 

Reformed1689

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Jun 1, 2018
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The natural born man is hostile toward God...
Yes he is. How then does he become not hostile. God changes his heart. Right? David seemed to understand that it is God who does the primary work in changing our hearts when he pleaded with God:


Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
 

Reformed1689

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Jun 1, 2018
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Then ALL jews are saved and ALL gentiles are saved then ? As repentence is Granted to ' Jews ' and ' Gentiles ' Not some Jews and some gentiles. I take it your not a universalist??
Show me where it says it is granted to all of them individually. I don't recall that statement.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Show me where it says it is granted to all of them individually. I don't recall that statement.
Exactly it doesn't. It says to Jews and Gentiles . Tell me who hasn't been granted? Remember being granted doesn't necessitate they come and believe.
 

Reformed1689

Active member
Jun 1, 2018
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I believe that verse is in relation to the deeper things of God , not the Gospel. Its the mature wisdom mature believers can recieve .
1 Corinthians 1
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

What's the message of the cross? Isn't that the gospel?

What is foolishness to those who are perishing? Isn't it the message of the cross?
 

Reformed1689

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Jun 1, 2018
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Exactly it doesn't. It says to Jews and Gentiles . Tell me who hasn't been granted? Remember being granted doesn't necessitate they come and believe.
I don't understand your argument then. If scripture doesn't say it's granted to everyone without exception, how can you then argue that it does?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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1 Corinthians 1
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

What's the message of the cross? Isn't that the gospel?

What is foolishness to those who are perishing? Isn't it the message of the cross?
I prefer the Kjv . The ' message ' is never foolish . The ' preaching ' is to them that reject .
 

Reformed1689

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Jun 1, 2018
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That verse is before John 12.32 .
This is irrelevent.
They CAN come to Jesus by being drawn by the Father to Jesus prior to the cross. After the cross ALL can come because All are drawn. But as irresistible grace doesn't exist , not all come and not All believe. They resist the Truth.
Jesus drawing all people doesn't mean everyone is able to save themselves....


Who is Jesus talking to in John 12?


20 Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. 21 They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” 22 Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.
23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.
27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name!”
Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.
30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
34 The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”
35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going. 36 Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them.
 

Reformed1689

Active member
Jun 1, 2018
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I prefer the Kjv . The ' message ' is never foolish . The ' preaching ' is to them that reject .
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.


Is it not saying the Gospel is foolish to those that perish?

Is preaching of the cross anything other than the Gospel?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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I don't understand your argument then. If scripture doesn't say it's granted to everyone without exception, how can you then argue that it does?
No it is given to everyone without exception. Jews and Gentiles ,covers everyone .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.


Is it not saying the Gospel is foolish to those that perish?

Is preaching of the cross anything other than the Gospel?
The ' preaching ' of it is foolishness. Try it . Every time I get up on a stool in a town centre it is seen as foolish.