Why do people belong to denominations in which they don't believe in?

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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
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#21
I am glad you asked that question: "Is there a law missing by which we could know God more adequately?"

This is not a law that is "missing", inasmuch as "omitting!"

And, is not so much a "law", as a "command!"

"Press ON!" "To the "High CALLING of God!" "IN Christ Jesus, our Lord and Savior!"

So many people that have believed and accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, "act/feel/behave" as if they have reached their "destination!"

Nay! It is, or should be anyway, the "ONLY, and Correct" "Beginning!" TO, a "more adequate" and "fruitful" knowing of God!

"Fellow Laborers", are not only other "people", involved in the "harvesting" process. There are also "angels, and Priests of God, and Priests of the Most High God", that "push, manipulate, separate, divide," our "inner spiritual being", to those "portions of God", to which our very complex spiritual/fleshly "attributes, or aspects" belong, or have their "House" in. (the Father's House....Many mansions, or "places of abidance!") To which Jesus "Went, to PREPARE!"....NOT FINISH! The believer, MUST "expend the effort/s" necessary (commanded), in the "Pressings ON!"

Sounds pretty "simple" don't it? And? It is! Which is probably the "why" so many people, oft times "cease" from their own personal "pressing on!" They have mistakenly "welded" simplicity, with "degree of difficulty!"
The concept is we come to believe through grace through faith in Jesus. That is the central absolute necessary event to become a Christian. After that Jesus states we are in his hand and none can take us out. That is the basis for OSAS. The problem as stated by Paul in Romans 7 is we have a sin nature we must continually fight and too often lose. Thank God for Jesus!!!

Romans 7 NIV
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,710
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#22
I've just made my last post regarding this on the are children born saved string.
God asks us to die with Christ. Christ paid for our sins and we are to accept that, and to then accept we are forgiven and put sin behind us as much as we can. God does not ask us to take on men's interpretation of Him given by any church.

We go to church to praise God and worship Him, not to pledge loyalty to a church denomination.

Babies are human beings and humans have been born knowing sin since the beginning of our world. Parents are responsible for the life of their children. They are to be trained to know God and His ways from the very beginning. Today, by simply going to the net for information you will find that groups of people who follow God by doing this for their children produce children who are more successful than any other group. Orthodox Jews used to always do this and they produced more successful people than other races.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#23
Because I believe if you really believe in something you'll stand up for it. I used to believe in this country more than god so when I was of age I joined the military but when I came to believe in god I joined the mission. I considered it Christian boot camp and I believe everybody has to serve someone, in this case if we don't choose the Lords side we are on the devils side. Heaven or hell is a zero sum game and we must choose. So I wanted to know why some people chose what they did. I think because this is a christian site people should be proud of their choice and willing to discuss it. Theres no sin in making a honest error but using a religion like a political stance is dead wrong in my opinion.
I have been to boot camp too, actually I have been to boot camp twice in the military. Not sure I would consider it Christian per se but still, serving in the military is an honorable enterprise. The main purpose of the United States military is to break things and kill people. Perhaps there are those that believe that this in not biblical yet personally I believe that it is an honorable thing to defend your country and protect your family. Thank you for your service to your country.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
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#24
As to the point of the thread. I have yet to go to a denomination I totally agree with. I have been an elder and deacon in 3 Reformed theology churches. I took required classes in the Reformed view of the Bible. Canons of Dort and the Heidelberg Catechism were discussed. Even the ministers had very small reservations about certain issues. I doubt that most ministers have no minor issues. Disagreements abound between denominations and some even inside a denomination.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
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#25
I started the string about are children born saved because many denominations require childhood baptisims and many teach that all are born with the sins of Adam and Eve upon them but I got bored when no one stepped up to the plate to defend this herisy. My next logical question is why do people belong to denominations that they don't believe in. Do they think it's better to pretend they believe lies which is a lie too, than nothing at all? I'm a born again, spirit filled hardcore bible believing Christian but I'd rather be an agnostic who believes there might be a God than a fake who pretends to believe in something they really do not. Is belonging to a religion they don't believe in better than admitting they really don't know what to believe? Pretending to believe a lie is a lie.
The reason for baptism of babies is the parents are promising to raise their children Christians. I was raised that way even though I wasn't baptized until I made my public confession. I was very young but answered every question the minister and officers threw at me. Don't remember that but was told about it years later. I grew up in faith. Never left it. Didn't have a church for a while but still believed. As I look back once the poem footprints in the sand came home to me. God carried me through very horrid times. Without my faith in God I would have committed suicide. I thought about it but then my faith would kick in. It is the reason I'm still alive.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,023
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#26
I started the string about are children born saved because many denominations require childhood baptisims and many teach that all are born with the sins of Adam and Eve upon them but I got bored when no one stepped up to the plate to defend this herisy. My next logical question is why do people belong to denominations that they don't believe in. Do they think it's better to pretend they believe lies which is a lie too, than nothing at all? I'm a born again, spirit filled hardcore bible believing Christian but I'd rather be an agnostic who believes there might be a God than a fake who pretends to believe in something they really do not. Is belonging to a religion they don't believe in better than admitting they really don't know what to believe? Pretending to believe a lie is a lie.
Makes me think of a guy I knew who totally believed that if he was a nice decent moral guy that Gd would not send him to hell....He was a Methodist by name and stated that because his daddy and granddaddy believed the above that it was good enough for him.....the same is true with Catholics I know......they know they are wrong, but just cannot leave because it would "kill" their "momma" or grandma etc....there are as many excuses as there are rocks in the driveway when it comes to why people refuse to leave a false religion and or particular denomination they grew up in............right or wrong!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
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#27
Makes me think of a guy I knew who totally believed that if he was a nice decent moral guy that Gd would not send him to hell....He was a Methodist by name and stated that because his daddy and granddaddy believed the above that it was good enough for him.....the same is true with Catholics I know......they know they are wrong, but just cannot leave because it would "kill" their "momma" or grandma etc....there are as many excuses as there are rocks in the driveway when it comes to why people refuse to leave a false religion and or particular denomination they grew up in............right or wrong!
First, all of the top level protestant denominations never preach the gospel. The Presbyterian USA was taken over in 1932. Only the sub denominations do today. A little less than 50% go to church so only a sliver hear the gospel today.

Obviously you don't understand this!!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,604
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#28
I started the string about are children born saved because many denominations require childhood baptisims and many teach that all are born with the sins of Adam and Eve upon them but I got bored when no one stepped up to the plate to defend this herisy. My next logical question is why do people belong to denominations that they don't believe in. Do they think it's better to pretend they believe lies which is a lie too, than nothing at all? I'm a born again, spirit filled hardcore bible believing Christian but I'd rather be an agnostic who believes there might be a God than a fake who pretends to believe in something they really do not. Is belonging to a religion they don't believe in better than admitting they really don't know what to believe? Pretending to believe a lie is a lie.
the question that comes immediately into my mind from the OP is sort of the one implied in this reply -

Its more important whats preached from the pulpit than the denomination the church is affiliated with..but then again..that really doesnt address the OP does it..:/
and brought up by this one -

You do not have to believe in the denomination you attend.

Sometimes, you want just some christians around. Sometimes you want just to take Lord´s Supper.

There is no perfect denomination. Preacher will always have some different view than you do.
when ((if)) you go to attend a church one day, and you hear something you really believe is quite wrong being proclaimed in the sermon, what do you do? what's the right response?

i grew up in a non-denominational church and have largely ignored the denomination of churches whenever i've had occasion to be looking for one to attend. i wouldn't declare myself a member of a denomination any more than i would register as a member of any worldly political party. i have distaste for the very concept.
just like Jewel said, it's what's being preached & taught that i care about far more than the sign on the door. what do i do if i don't believe they are teaching the Truth? well i probably don't come back the next week, if i'm trying to find a congregation to join. if a person has been attending a place for years, maybe since youth, for decades, it's not so easy a decision to stop. maybe you take more time to talk to the preacher/elders. maybe you're more lenient on your convictions and *suffer* what you disagree with for the sake of some other kind of fellowship than doctrinal agreement. maybe you feel called to persevere in trying to convince them, or maybe you just drop it altogether. maybe you become convinced.


this is a double-edged thing we're talking about - if i am wrong about what i believe, and i hear preaching that is actually right, but i disagree in myself about it, and i decide not to hear anymore of it, especially if i just 'church hop' without trying to plead the case with the church leadership, don't i just go on believing what's false, myself? like having itching ears, looking for someone who tells me what i want to hear ((supposing i don't want to hear the truth)). like seed falling on poor soil.

what's the right thing to do if you hear a sermon that you think is false teaching?
if it's a church you don't normally attend?
if it's a church you've got roots in?


i think this is really the question of the OP - pragmatically, at least. because Bob, your'e essentially asking for why people take one of the options: stick around somewhere where you honestly believe you're being fed lies.

((i haven't had a lot of time for CC in recent months. had to triage a bit with what time i have. sorry i didn't get to your children-salvation thread; but interestingly i've been trying to research whatever 'covenant theology' is, and was listening to an infant-baptism sermon today while commuting. and thinking about whether i'd listen to anymore of this guy, because i have a lot of objections with him, but on the other hand i'm set out on the broader topic primarily for intel/recon, and he was at least fairly informative.
which is an answer to your OP question in specific: in this case, i don't agree with this fellow's denomination, but i have a co-worker who is deeply involved in a place that believes at least something similar, and i'm trying to understand where he's coming from in order to have more meaningful conversations.))
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,023
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#29
First, all of the top level protestant denominations never preach the gospel. The Presbyterian USA was taken over in 1932. Only the sub denominations do today. A little less than 50% go to church so only a sliver hear the gospel today.

Obviously you don't understand this!!
The best thing you can do is not address me because you do not know what your talking about....you assume so much crap about me and you have no clue what I understand or what I know....go back to your creed and quit addressing me, I am sick of your incessant mouthy remarks....serious!

And I could care less about anything Presbyterian to be frank....the one's I know teach false gospels and believe in their legalistic working for dogma...not to mention their reunification with the Catholic Church they came from...!!
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
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#30
the question that comes immediately into my mind from the OP is sort of the one implied in this reply -



and brought up by this one -



when ((if)) you go to attend a church one day, and you hear something you really believe is quite wrong being proclaimed in the sermon, what do you do? what's the right response?

i grew up in a non-denominational church and have largely ignored the denomination of churches whenever i've had occasion to be looking for one to attend. i wouldn't declare myself a member of a denomination any more than i would register as a member of any worldly political party. i have distaste for the very concept.
just like Jewel said, it's what's being preached & taught that i care about far more than the sign on the door. what do i do if i don't believe they are teaching the Truth? well i probably don't come back the next week, if i'm trying to find a congregation to join. if a person has been attending a place for years, maybe since youth, for decades, it's not so easy a decision to stop. maybe you take more time to talk to the preacher/elders. maybe you're more lenient on your convictions and *suffer* what you disagree with for the sake of some other kind of fellowship than doctrinal agreement. maybe you feel called to persevere in trying to convince them, or maybe you just drop it altogether. maybe you become convinced.


this is a double-edged thing we're talking about - if i am wrong about what i believe, and i hear preaching that is actually right, but i disagree in myself about it, and i decide not to hear anymore of it, especially if i just 'church hop' without trying to plead the case with the church leadership, don't i just go on believing what's false, myself? like having itching ears, looking for someone who tells me what i want to hear ((supposing i don't want to hear the truth)). like seed falling on poor soil.

what's the right thing to do if you hear a sermon that you think is false teaching?
if it's a church you don't normally attend?
if it's a church you've got roots in?


i think this is really the question of the OP - pragmatically, at least. because Bob, your'e essentially asking for why people take one of the options: stick around somewhere where you honestly believe you're being fed lies.

((i haven't had a lot of time for CC in recent months. had to triage a bit with what time i have. sorry i didn't get to your children-salvation thread; but interestingly i've been trying to research whatever 'covenant theology' is, and was listening to an infant-baptism sermon today while commuting. and thinking about whether i'd listen to anymore of this guy, because i have a lot of objections with him, but on the other hand i'm set out on the broader topic primarily for intel/recon, and he was at least fairly informative.
which is an answer to your OP question in specific: in this case, i don't agree with this fellow's denomination, but i have a co-worker who is deeply involved in a place that believes at least something similar, and i'm trying to understand where he's coming from in order to have more meaningful conversations.))
If I go to a church and dont believe in what's preached..I don't go again..a lot of people just go not knowing the biblical difference of what's wrong n right :(
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#31
Does anyone here go to church because they love God and want to follow and worship Him?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#32
Does anyone here go to church because they love God and want to follow and worship Him?
because He says He is in the midst wherever two or more are gathered in His name. so to seek Him out, because i know that He isn't worshipped on one special mountain or another.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
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#34
You do not have to believe in the denomination you attend.

Sometimes, you want just some christians around. Sometimes you want just to take Lord´s Supper.

There is no perfect denomination. Preacher will always have some different view than you do.
There's no perfect CHURCH since the church is made up of imperfect people but there are definitely you certain strong deniminational beliefs that aren't always Biblical..gotta watch out..pray and decern. We are in the last days and as prophecies..there is an increase of false teachers and preacher who claim to "know the Word" but twist it around like Satan did in the garden of Eden...Satan ALSO quoted scripture but 'twisted" the wording and meaning..be careful..KNOW THE TRUTH TO BR ABLE TO DECERN ..
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
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#35
because He says He is in the midst wherever two or more are gathered in His name. so to seek Him out, because i know that He isn't worshipped on one special mountain or another.
God can be worshipped anywhere..my closest times with God have come when I was out in nature..His handiwork..a church is just 4 walls with like minded believers inside..

Here's another analogy..I'm from Wisconsin..so I can cheer for the Green Bay Packers at home sitting in front of my tv..but if I go to a game at the staduim with like minded packer fans (like church) ..just vocation.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
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#36
The reason for baptism of babies is the parents are promising to raise their children Christians. I was raised that way even though I wasn't baptized until I made my public confession. I was very young but answered every question the minister and officers threw at me. Don't remember that but was told about it years later. I grew up in faith. Never left it. Didn't have a church for a while but still believed. As I look back once the poem footprints in the sand came home to me. God carried me through very horrid times. Without my faith in God I would have committed suicide. I thought about it but then my faith would kick in. It is the reason I'm still alive.
I think the reason for baby baptism is so thier soul will be to heaven if they die (per Catholic religion).. many churches have baby DEDICATIONS ..like Samuel n his mother in the Bible...etc
 
#37
The concept is we come to believe through grace through faith in Jesus. That is the central absolute necessary event to become a Christian. After that Jesus states we are in his hand and none can take us out. That is the basis for OSAS. The problem as stated by Paul in Romans 7 is we have a sin nature we must continually fight and too often lose. Thank God for Jesus!!!

Romans 7 NIV
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

These verses (although, is an NIV translation. A translation I'm not really too fond of. But, if is keeps you reading the Bible?) remind me of the "spiritual struggling's" against "powers and principalities of darkness" of spiritual wickedness in high places."

Now, it's hard enough "warring/struggling against" these "enemies of the Kingdom of Light, and Kingdom of God, in the "outside" world. Let alone, when they infiltrate inside any particular "body of believer's" or, church/es of stone. Rather answers the "question" as to the "why" there are so many varied denominations calling themselves, or considering themselves "Christian!"

What usually happens, is that in venues such as these, as well as in churches of stone, given time? Usually degrades into a "piffing" contest, as to which "group, or groups", has the most "Jesus" in 'em! Which really isn't the question. Should one liken Jesus, to "God's Grace, and Love, and Will", as Whosoever WILL, may come! Churches like these, generally, as a rule, go "straight" from believing, and being baptized, to Paul's letters TO the "various churches!"
GONE, goes any, or (even) all of Jesus' parables! GONE, goes any further seeking of the Kingdom of God, and His Righteousness! "Love, "ABSOLVES" one from EVERY sin! Is generally, the "motto", if not outrightly "spoken", then outrightly "Practiced!" This "abuse" of God's Love, and Grace, and Will, is what Paul also preached concerning sin, and "wallowing" in Grace! God FORBID!

Personally, I don't "subscribe" to OSAS! I don't consider accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior, a "free ticket" into Heaven! I "shudder", when I hear, or see people posting stuff like that, in the light of what Paul also taught about "working out one's salvation with fear and trembling!"

God's "Grace" not only allows one to be an "whomsoever will, may come!" Grace also "allows" one to move forwards, or Press ON!
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
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#38
The kingdom of God is within. Denominations are man-made organizations that are made up of both the faithful and the lost, who for the most part are like-minded in their understanding. Men and women of God have an anointing because of the Spirit that is within them and make a difference in their surroundings because the Lord moves according to the prayer of faith. Based upon my understanding of the book of Acts, there is no hierarchy in the body of Christ above the local pastor as Apostles and Evangelists are always on the move. I count the apostle's creed to be the minimum of what is required for a Christian to believe in and be of the faith. Each of the faithful have the scripture studied, illuminated according to the will of God and what the Lord reveals to one person isn't always the same truth that he reveals to another. We only know in part and see the truth through a glass darkly as revelation comes to us here a little and there a little. The more accurate our doctrines and knowledge, the closer we should be able to draw near to the Lord in obedience and faithfulness. The OT was replaced by the NT because they could not keep the Law; whereas in the NT we are having the Lord write his commandments and laws upon the tables of our hearts and minds, making us to see sin as the Lord does, more and more and as a result, we are able to obey where they could not by being transformed on the inside into the image of Jesus Christ morally. So that obedience to the Spirit is better than sacrifice or even accurate doctrines when doing the will of God. Our church home should be one that teaches the word of God, has an ongoing outreach to the community, and shows an active love for one another.
 

fvpreacher

New member
Aug 8, 2018
4
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#39
By what determination do you claim to know that they believe or don't believe?
Can you be certain it's a lack of belief and not simply ignorance of what that belief teaches?
I think before you can be reasonably answered you need to provide how you determine what do many strangers do or do not believe.
Also I'd be curious why you, or anyone else, would expect people to hold themselves up to the same standards you do.
I am sure that many people have no idea how far their denominational teachings stray from the Bible. BUT, I know some people who admit that they DO know, but choose to stay in the denomination. I even know of church leaders who have signed statements of belief that they know to be unscriptural and, when they queried this, they were told to just sign it anyway 'Because everybody does, even if they disagree with it.' Is that honouring the truth?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
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#40
The best thing you can do is not address me because you do not know what your talking about....you assume so much crap about me and you have no clue what I understand or what I know....go back to your creed and quit addressing me, I am sick of your incessant mouthy remarks....serious!

And I could care less about anything Presbyterian to be frank....the one's I know teach false gospels and believe in their legalistic working for dogma...not to mention their reunification with the Catholic Church they came from...!!
ROTFL
I have had many disagreements with you over only using the Bible and not any Bible helpers. So don't try that concept on me. Went round and round with you on several issues and agreed with you on others.

I defy you to find anything non Biblical about the Presbyterian PCA. The only thing you might disagree with is the Reformed view of scriptures. I belong to that gospel preaching denomination and have been an elder in one of the churches.

You spout off without knowing what you are talking about!!

PS: I am Reformed to the bone. Backed up by scripture!! Presbyterian is Reformed view of scripture.