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how does one lose repentance????read the chapter from the beginning....one cannot be renewed to the original state of repentance .baptism and laying of hands...it does not mean they cannot repent...there is only one sacrifice for remission of sins... once you use it there is no more sacrifice for remission of sins....else you are carrying Christ to the cross again...those who fall away and return are making Christ a spectacle......they eat the good food of God...vomit it /reject it ...then swallow their pride... eat back what they vomit / reject....and come back to God....they must go to the mercy seat confess and repent....because there is no more sacrifice for sins...if they don't they remain in their sins....separated from Christ thus grieving the HS....
E
dude, you do not even know what repentance is. Let alone what the gospel is.
It says you can not be renewed to repentance that is what it says, nothing else, your adding to the word of God.
the first part of chapter 6 is telling them to move on from the elementary (basic) doctrines of faith. Which they should have already known, because they were taught it, It says nothing of being able to return to it, it says depart from it, don;t go back to it, because you already know it.
learn something else.
talk about twisting the word of God to make it say something it does not say in order to keep believing what you do. wow!
K
That is a wrong assumption of the scripture given.
Jesus is referring to His original twelve, and He said that He did loose one which was Judas.
John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
This does not contradict scripture, the parable of the lost sheep clearly shows sheep can get lost.
Let me break it down for you in human term;
The shepard has a flock of 100 sheep (believers ), as long as they stay close to him they are protected by the wolves ( satan and sin ). One of the sheep is tempted ( sin ) by what they see and wonder away ( fallen away ) from the flock. The other 99 sheep are still safe because they stayed with the shepard, however this one is no longer safe. The shepard then leaves the flock in the safety of the field to go after the one that wondered off. He finds the sheep that fell/wondered away indulged in the sin, and minister to him to bring him back. If the sheep turns away from the sin ( repents ) and follows the shepard back to the field then he will be safe ( saved ) again.
This scripture of the lost sheep shows that sheep get lost. A unbeliever is not a sheep, so can not be classified as a sheep. Only when you put your faith in the Lord do you become a sheep.
Then in Hebrews that I gave you in chapter 3 and 6 show believers that were partakers of Christ and received the Holy Spirit that then turned away from the Lord, fell away.
Yes Peter did backslide, but like you said he repented. The scriptures make it clear that some will fall away, but not repent as Hebrews talks about.
I've already mentioned the case of Peter who backslided by denying Jesus, and also after receiving the Holy Ghost by hipocrisy and legalism. But he did not lose salvation. Thanks to the Shepherd of our souls. But goats do not follow the Shepherd.
"If you love Me, keep My commandments"
You are correct.
"If you love Me, keep My commandments"
You are correct.
E
yep. this guy has no fathom of how great and powerful God is, God is here with me, God is there with him, God is everywhere. God is the perfect sheppard. a sheep can not be lost, because we can not go anywhere where we are not in the sight of God, he sees us no matter where we are, in fact, he promises never to leave us, or forsake us (if we could leave him, and get out of his sight, he has forsaken us, if he does not take care of us 24/7 no matter what, he has forsaken us)
we can be out of Gods will, and do things which can harm us (he is not going to stop us) and may even hurt or kill our physical bodies.
But he said, he would never leave us. nor forsake us..
we can be out of Gods will, and do things which can harm us (he is not going to stop us) and may even hurt or kill our physical bodies.
But he said, he would never leave us. nor forsake us..
K
First of all a misuse of 1 John again, that scripture is referring to those who are a type of antichrist.
Second you are making assumptions again, we did not say this man was more moral then God. The Shepard is Jesus, and He says in this parable sheep do get lost back to sin, and only through repentance do they come back into the flock. This was given for an example of what we are called to do, go after those who fall away. But it is still a two way street, you can minister to somebody tell your blue in the face, just as the Holy Spirit can tell you not to do something. But if they do not listen to you, or the Holy Spirits guidance then they stay in their life of willful sin that leads to spiritual death.
I already answered this in post #336, those people that can not be brought to repent is because they love their sin more then the truth of our Lord, or they have fallen to false teaching that one can continue in sin and stay saved.
Yes, and these people are not His sheep, because His sheep hears His voice, and follows Him.
Sons are chastized and they respond to the chastizement by the Father...
Those who do not repent, are goats, not the sheep.
The son of perdition is not son of God, that is the point I am making. I guess I'll have to disagree respectfully.
Sons are chastized and they respond to the chastizement by the Father...
Those who do not repent, are goats, not the sheep.
The son of perdition is not son of God, that is the point I am making. I guess I'll have to disagree respectfully.
E
Actually he was only half correct. While he is right in saying someone who has never heard, they can have no faith. He got you and tricked you into agreeing with him, by insinuating that everyone who has heard has faith.
This is not true. And I am sure you would agree. Many people have heard the word of someone, yet never had faith in what they said at all.
I have heard the word of science concerning evolution (I am sure he has also) But I have no faith, nor do I even believe that science.
so his excuse that everyone who hears has faith is just plain and simply not true.
This is not true. And I am sure you would agree. Many people have heard the word of someone, yet never had faith in what they said at all.
I have heard the word of science concerning evolution (I am sure he has also) But I have no faith, nor do I even believe that science.
so his excuse that everyone who hears has faith is just plain and simply not true.
Not to mention a few other things as well like...
1. A sheep that is prone to wander has its leg broke and is carried by the shepherd (chastisement)until healed and chastisement yields the peaceable fruits of righteousness
2. They are still called a sheep
3. The men of God in the bible who are called righteous and children even though they had sin like Paul, Daniel, Peter etc.
1. A sheep that is prone to wander has its leg broke and is carried by the shepherd (chastisement)until healed and chastisement yields the peaceable fruits of righteousness
2. They are still called a sheep
3. The men of God in the bible who are called righteous and children even though they had sin like Paul, Daniel, Peter etc.
E
No it referes to ALL who are antichrist, Why do you keep adding to the word of God something which is not there?
My sheep hear my voice, and they follow me.
It is not an assumption, it is a fact. The TRUE sheep of Jesus hear, and willingly goes back, they do not need to repent, how can they repent and believe something they already agree and believe? You have never seen sheep in a flock. and one who leaves? You call them by name, they turn and run to you.. They do not get on their hands and knees and beg forgiveness. this is some imaginary thing thought up by satan to fool people into thinking they must get resaved.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All who ever came before Me[SUP][a][/SUP] are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. [SUP]13 [/SUP]The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. [SUP]15 [/SUP]As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
My sheep hear my voice, and they follow me.
It is not an assumption, it is a fact. The TRUE sheep of Jesus hear, and willingly goes back, they do not need to repent, how can they repent and believe something they already agree and believe? You have never seen sheep in a flock. and one who leaves? You call them by name, they turn and run to you.. They do not get on their hands and knees and beg forgiveness. this is some imaginary thing thought up by satan to fool people into thinking they must get resaved.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All who ever came before Me[SUP][a][/SUP] are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. [SUP]13 [/SUP]The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. [SUP]15 [/SUP]As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
K
That is wrong to say, because I did not get this understanding from the Catholic church.
I got this understanding by actually studying the scriptures, and letting the Holy Spirit guide me in my learning. When ever I pray to God in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ for understanding, and an answer in a area. Within 24 hours I am guided to pick up the bible and amazingly thanks to God I turn directly to the passage that answers it.
I can feel the Holy Spirit guiding my actions, and feel His conviction toward me when I do wrong bringing me to ask forgiveness of that sin.
He has lead me to multiple scriptures that speak of believers and how they can and have fallen away from God. I have gone and posted these multiple scriptures over and over again. The only debate by you and others toward what I have given is wrong context, or just a handful of the same scriptures that are misused because only half the meaning is given or placing it in a position that does not apply.
If I or somebody else show somebody 25 scriptures that show believers can fall away, and all the other side can do is keep posting the same 3 to 5 scriptures to say believers can not. I would have to go with they can, and that the few given are misused.
Common misuses;
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
People want to say believe only or faith only, but what does the Lord say here. He says should not, as an imperative that one can still perish depending on their belief. Then to show what believing in Him means, He gives us this scripture;
Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
The other misuse I see all the time is 1 John 2:19, about the they went out from us because they were not of us. Please look at verse 18 and you will see who this is referring to;
1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
If you think this refers to a person who accepted Christ as their Lord, and then do to a hard trial in their life turned away from God is a form of an antichrist. Then you can make it fit, but to me an antichrist is one who is against God, and their soul purpose is to corrupt the word leading some astray. A person who initially accepted Christ, but then turned their back because of a hard time or event in their life is not a antichrist to me.
Plus to show the gross misuse of this lets go see if John agrees with the Lord that one must keep and obey the Lord's commands;
[h=1]1 John 2:3-6[/h]3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[a] is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in Him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
25 sets of scripture out of context and go study John 3:16 from the Greek and the use of an aorist tense verb and what it actually means (IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE)
PRESENT continuing result from a PAST COMPLETED ACTION and then study the words ETERNAL, EVERLASTING and Ecclesiastes 3:14 and EVERY thing God does is ETERNAL including SALVATION and JUSTIFICATION based upon the faith of Christ Galatians 2:16-21.....
The bible does not teach that you can loose your salvation period and you are following the broad way to a place that you will not like Kenneth.......straight and NARROW is the way and MANY will come bragging on what the have done and their right to ENTER heaven....Jesus will say I never knew you because they tried to come by a different DOOR other than JESUS and HIS FAITH...key emphasis on the word HIS FAITH.
PRESENT continuing result from a PAST COMPLETED ACTION and then study the words ETERNAL, EVERLASTING and Ecclesiastes 3:14 and EVERY thing God does is ETERNAL including SALVATION and JUSTIFICATION based upon the faith of Christ Galatians 2:16-21.....
The bible does not teach that you can loose your salvation period and you are following the broad way to a place that you will not like Kenneth.......straight and NARROW is the way and MANY will come bragging on what the have done and their right to ENTER heaven....Jesus will say I never knew you because they tried to come by a different DOOR other than JESUS and HIS FAITH...key emphasis on the word HIS FAITH.