Why do so many Churches teach a salvation doctrine opposed the the one Jesus taught?
- Thread starter Goliath
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You read nothing but the Bible? 
Or is it you think if someone else had read anything
besides the Bible, it means they have never read the Bible? Both positions seem suspect.
Or is it you think if someone else had read anythingbesides the Bible, it means they have never read the Bible? Both positions seem suspect.
Oh, a rare glimpse at an online commentary here and there, but, other than that, nothing but the Bible.
Is this problematic?
In my estimation, the real problem is that people have read way too many books and are basically illiterate when it comes to what the Bible actually teaches on a whole range of topics.
Ecclesiastes chapter 12
[8] Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
[9] And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
[10] The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
[11] The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
[12] And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
If you ask me (or even if you don't), then the vast majority of professing "Christians", with all of the books that they've read, have terribly missed "the conclusion of the whole matter". In fact, multitudes of them fight against the same on a daily basis.
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Put them on a litmus test, ask them about some basics - Was the universe created by God about 6000 years ago? Is the narrow way through Jesus the only way to go to heaven? Is everyone born as a sinner in need of salvation? Is marriage between a man and a woman? Should the church comply with the government on lockdown or vaccine mandate? Is the church preparing its congregation to be spiritually ready for any upcoming calamity such as food shortage, digital currency or any kind of new restrictions?
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Rest from what?
Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
When we come to Christ we are given rest from our work at the Law, the 10 commandments. When we come to faith in Christ we are no longer under the Law. We are under the Grace of the Lord Jesus.
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Paul says exactly the same thing as the Lord Jesus. If you think that Paul preaches against what the Lord Jesus teaches then you don't understand Christianity at all.
Rest from what?
Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
When we come to Christ we are given rest from our work at the Law, the 10 commandments. When we come to faith in Christ we are no longer under the Law. We are under the Grace of the Lord Jesus.
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Paul says exactly the same thing as the Lord Jesus. If you think that Paul preaches against what the Lord Jesus teaches then you don't understand Christianity at all.
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“Repent is not a one and done deal. It's a spiritual struggle for a lifetime known as the sanctification process,”
repentance is a decision you make in light of the lord wedge that you have served sin in life. It should be a grievance to the heart when we realize our sins put Jesus on the cross.
If we ignore our sins we can never come to repentance
“Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”
2 Corinthians 7:9-10
in every person is a war between good and evil it’s part of humanity this struggle
“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
Romans 7:21-23 KJV
it’s a war between mans spirit and his flesh it’s been so since the fall
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
Genesis 6:5-6 KJV
repentance is when you realize your deeds are serving Satan and you make a decision to stop doing that that’s where repentance lives. You may not stop
Immediately but once you make the decision your not able to freely continue because of your conscience you’ve decided through hearing the truth that your not going to serve satans Will anymore
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey
; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?”
Romans 6:15-16
repentance is when you choose obedience over sin because you’ve heard the truth that every time a person sins they are serving satans Will for their life that leads to death.
“to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey
; whether of sin unto death, “
a sinner yields themselves to the Will of sin the Will of the flesh , a Christian makes the decision to yield to Gods Will instead
You change from willingly being a servant ofnthe devil and his Will lust , greed , pride , grudge bearing ect those are the devils ways Christ taught us Gods ways
our cchoice is once you hear the truth to accept the truth and to follow after God and his ways revealed sin the gospel. To do this we have to repent of all we thought we knew about God become students or disciples of Jesus Christ beginning at Jesus repenting and starting here
“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
We can’t keep seeing God the way Moses revealed him we have to accept who Jesus is , what Jesus said ect
repentance is simple it’s when we actually start taking the gospel seriously . Make the decision not to work with our enemy to destroy us , but turn to God and serve him who came to save us
it’s not repentance to pretend our sin doesn’t count , it’s not repentance to insist “ everyone sins “ it becomes repentance when we make the choice to stop serving sin and start serving God
whatever mistakes we make along the way we have Jesus to deal with that to make the decision to convert from satans servants serving and enjoying sin knowing the truth , and start believing and serving God enjoying the fruits of righteousness
repentance is a lifetime commitment to serve God and when you realize you’ve messed up to confess and repent and stand back up and walk again.
We have to repent of what’s in our head me heart and start letting Jesus teach us what’s meant to be there that’s where repentance comes from
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32 KJV
all it takes is for us to accept the truth ( but not then explain it’s not true )
“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26 KJV
We need to start looking at it like it is sin is the Will of Satan , the gospel is the Will of God . Repentance is when we choose Gods ways as our life’s path.
repentance is a decision you make in light of the lord wedge that you have served sin in life. It should be a grievance to the heart when we realize our sins put Jesus on the cross.
If we ignore our sins we can never come to repentance
“Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”
2 Corinthians 7:9-10
in every person is a war between good and evil it’s part of humanity this struggle
“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
Romans 7:21-23 KJV
it’s a war between mans spirit and his flesh it’s been so since the fall
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
Genesis 6:5-6 KJV
repentance is when you realize your deeds are serving Satan and you make a decision to stop doing that that’s where repentance lives. You may not stop
Immediately but once you make the decision your not able to freely continue because of your conscience you’ve decided through hearing the truth that your not going to serve satans Will anymore
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey
; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?”
Romans 6:15-16
repentance is when you choose obedience over sin because you’ve heard the truth that every time a person sins they are serving satans Will for their life that leads to death.
“to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey
; whether of sin unto death, “
a sinner yields themselves to the Will of sin the Will of the flesh , a Christian makes the decision to yield to Gods Will instead
You change from willingly being a servant ofnthe devil and his Will lust , greed , pride , grudge bearing ect those are the devils ways Christ taught us Gods ways
our cchoice is once you hear the truth to accept the truth and to follow after God and his ways revealed sin the gospel. To do this we have to repent of all we thought we knew about God become students or disciples of Jesus Christ beginning at Jesus repenting and starting here
“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
We can’t keep seeing God the way Moses revealed him we have to accept who Jesus is , what Jesus said ect
repentance is simple it’s when we actually start taking the gospel seriously . Make the decision not to work with our enemy to destroy us , but turn to God and serve him who came to save us
it’s not repentance to pretend our sin doesn’t count , it’s not repentance to insist “ everyone sins “ it becomes repentance when we make the choice to stop serving sin and start serving God
whatever mistakes we make along the way we have Jesus to deal with that to make the decision to convert from satans servants serving and enjoying sin knowing the truth , and start believing and serving God enjoying the fruits of righteousness
repentance is a lifetime commitment to serve God and when you realize you’ve messed up to confess and repent and stand back up and walk again.
We have to repent of what’s in our head me heart and start letting Jesus teach us what’s meant to be there that’s where repentance comes from
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32 KJV
all it takes is for us to accept the truth ( but not then explain it’s not true )
“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26 KJV
We need to start looking at it like it is sin is the Will of Satan , the gospel is the Will of God . Repentance is when we choose Gods ways as our life’s path.
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Oh man, that's a lot to take in, thanks for your time of writing all these. I understand the gravity of sin and its deadly consequences. The tricky thing is, Satan rarely creeps in at seven o'clock in the morning when I've just had my morning coffee, when I'm full of energy and feeling like I could do seventy push ups or run five miles. No, he always visits at night after a long and hard day, when I'm exhausted and vulnerable with my mind foggy and my guard down. Jesus went through a trial forty days and forty nights in the wilderness, then he faced the temptation from Satan. It was not at the beginning, not in the middle, but at the very end, that's when Satan took the opportunity and targeted at him. That spiritual condition is the trigger that gives the Satan a foothold, and over time that foothold become a stronghold. The most terrifying thing is, some of these strongholds are supposed to be smashed into pieces a long time ago, they should've been buried six feet deep in the past, but lately they're coming back to haunt me again. There's just no rest for the wicked. I've tried to keep myself busy and occupied with some other activities, either work or chores, but nothing could kill that desire. One dies off, others pop up. And what is terrifying is that it feels like I've lost control sometimes, as if my body has a mind of its own on autopilot mode. And this is a unique challenging experience for Christians with the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Unbelievers are not bothered by it, only we are.
As I said, no man has perfect understanding or complete knowledge. I don't agree with everything Spurgeon taught either. But God used him mightily. Some people have a mountain of wood, hay and straw as well as precious stones, silver and gold. God will burn what can be burnt and reveal what is precious: gems, silver and gold. He then gives us His beauty for our ashes. Spectators, who sit and watch, keeping their hands clean but doing nothing, get exactly that as their reward. Nothing.
I value what I've learned from Watchman Nee. He is one of my greatest influences. I had a mentor who referred me to Nee often. I also appreciate Derek Prince. I don't agree with everything that Derek Prince taught either. I'm also well aware that I could be wrong and those things I dispute could be right. I can say the same for a number of others that I've read or heard.
I value what I've learned from Watchman Nee. He is one of my greatest influences. I had a mentor who referred me to Nee often. I also appreciate Derek Prince. I don't agree with everything that Derek Prince taught either. I'm also well aware that I could be wrong and those things I dispute could be right. I can say the same for a number of others that I've read or heard.
Sin is way more than transgression of the law. It is anything that does not match up to God's holiness and righteousness.
Again you display a penchant for selective and out of context Bible verses. Lord Jesus gave a commentary on the law in the Sermon of the Mount. In summary, He said that if you thought the Law was tough, think again. What God really requires.........
Christians are now free from the law, but not free to sin. Christians are already righteous in Christ. Christians are now able to live according to the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ. It is the Law of Life that sets us free from the law of sin and death. Anyone who is born again does not want to sin.
Again you display a penchant for selective and out of context Bible verses. Lord Jesus gave a commentary on the law in the Sermon of the Mount. In summary, He said that if you thought the Law was tough, think again. What God really requires.........
Christians are now free from the law, but not free to sin. Christians are already righteous in Christ. Christians are now able to live according to the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ. It is the Law of Life that sets us free from the law of sin and death. Anyone who is born again does not want to sin.
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We know the Gentiles did not have the law in the first century, so when were the Gentiles subjected to the law of Moses?[/QUOTE]
I never said they were. But they are subject to the Law of God..the Laws of righteousness. That is, if they want to be saved.
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
(Romans 2:6-7)
I never said they were. But they are subject to the Law of God..the Laws of righteousness. That is, if they want to be saved.
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
(Romans 2:6-7)
Again you display a penchant for selective and out of context Bible verses.
I know right? People like you think it's being quoted out of context just because it goes against your belief. Try an open mind and read the entire chapter
Christians are now free from the law, but not free to sin. Christians are already righteous in Christ. Christians are now able to live according to the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ. It is the Law of Life that sets us free from the law of sin and death. Anyone who is born again does not want to sin.[/QUOTE]
I wish you the best of luck with that on the Day of Judgment...Now whose taking the Bible out of context?
I know right? People like you think it's being quoted out of context just because it goes against your belief. Try an open mind and read the entire chapter
Christians are now free from the law, but not free to sin. Christians are already righteous in Christ. Christians are now able to live according to the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ. It is the Law of Life that sets us free from the law of sin and death. Anyone who is born again does not want to sin.[/QUOTE]
I wish you the best of luck with that on the Day of Judgment...Now whose taking the Bible out of context?
I wish you the best of luck with that on the Day of Judgment...Now whose taking the Bible out of context?[/QUOTE]
I don't believe in luck. I believe in the grace of God. I believe that I am already righteous, the righteousness of God in Christ. I believe that I am a new creation in Christ Jesus. I believe that I am crucified with Christ. It is no longer I that lives, it is Christ that lives in me. If you want to find fault with me, fine. However, I am dead and my life is hidden in Christ with God. You are judging and condemning a dead man. I've already done that, so you need not bother.
I believe that salvation means deliverance, not only from sin, but from what I was in Adam. My old life had plenty of flaws that were not sin as you would consider it. Deliverance is progressive. No one is instantly spiritually mature and free of every bondage. That's why we are exhorted to lay those thing aside.
So, Goliath, I'll let you live in your fantasy land of dead religion. I prefer to be a David, knowing God, having dealt with Satan and the flesh, and depending on God, not the weapons of the flesh. You keep on trying your best to obey the law. Good luck with that.
I don't believe in luck. I believe in the grace of God. I believe that I am already righteous, the righteousness of God in Christ. I believe that I am a new creation in Christ Jesus. I believe that I am crucified with Christ. It is no longer I that lives, it is Christ that lives in me. If you want to find fault with me, fine. However, I am dead and my life is hidden in Christ with God. You are judging and condemning a dead man. I've already done that, so you need not bother.
I believe that salvation means deliverance, not only from sin, but from what I was in Adam. My old life had plenty of flaws that were not sin as you would consider it. Deliverance is progressive. No one is instantly spiritually mature and free of every bondage. That's why we are exhorted to lay those thing aside.
So, Goliath, I'll let you live in your fantasy land of dead religion. I prefer to be a David, knowing God, having dealt with Satan and the flesh, and depending on God, not the weapons of the flesh. You keep on trying your best to obey the law. Good luck with that.
I don't believe in luck. I believe in the grace of God. I believe that I am already righteous, the righteousness of God in Christ. I believe that I am a new creation in Christ Jesus. I believe that I am crucified with Christ. It is no longer I that lives, it is Christ that lives in me. If you want to find fault with me, fine. However, I am dead and my life is hidden in Christ with God. You are judging and condemning a dead man. I've already done that, so you need not bother.[/QUOTE]
Well, let's test that..Shall we?
You say Christ lives in you. Christ was not a sinner, so if he lives in you, you are incapable of transgression of the Law.
Do you sin?
If you do..Christ does not live in you..no matter how much you believe it.
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
(1 John 3:9-10)
Well, let's test that..Shall we?
You say Christ lives in you. Christ was not a sinner, so if he lives in you, you are incapable of transgression of the Law.
Do you sin?
If you do..Christ does not live in you..no matter how much you believe it.
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
(1 John 3:9-10)
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