Why do some people believe and some do not?

[cv5]

And how does God transform?

You have got to be kidding me.
Only God has that instruction manual. Certainly not me.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Good grief man Jesus is setting up an ironic CONTRAST here. Not an equivalency!

And DENOUNCING the wayward Jewish system of USELESS works.

Laboring vs giving. Works vs belief.
Jesus is saying that belief is NOT a work. And NOTHING like the useless Jewish system.

I disagree. Believing into Christ is indeed work; mere mental belief isn't

 

[Magenta]

And how does God transform?

Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You'd have to elaborate and explain what the wording means as you see it. To begin:

• Did Jesus command them to work to receive what He gives - the food that remains into/for eternal life?
• What exactly are they asking Him - "What shall we do..."?
• What exactly is Jesus telling them - "This is the work of God..."?

It's plain as day. Jesus said to labor to believe into him in order to receive the hidden manna. Israelites in the wilderness had to go out and collect the manna

 

[Magenta]

1 Corinthians 4:7b; John 3:27; Romans 9:15-16 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

 

[studier]

I disagree. Believing into Christ is indeed work; mere mental belief isn't

Please explain and include how this compares to the not of works passages that preclude boasting.

 

[Magenta]

2 Peter 1:1 To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: Jude 1:3 contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once for all to the saints. Acts 13:48 all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Acts 16:14 The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.
John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6:37a Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me. Philippians 1:6 being confident of this, that He Who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion. Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him. Romans 12:3b think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measure of faith God has given you. 2 Timothy 2:25b hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth. Isaiah 65:1 “I revealed Myself to those who did not ask for Me; I was found by those who did not seek Me." God foreknew, chose, predestined, and saved us.

 

[studier]

It's plain as day. Jesus said to labor to believe into him in order to receive the hidden manna. Israelites in the wilderness had to go out and collect the manna

It's not plain as day to many if not most.

How about His meaning in answering their question about working the works of God? What are they asking Him and what is He saying in His answer?

 

[Magenta]

I disagree. Believing into Christ is indeed work; mere mental belief isn't

2 Peter 1:5-8

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

So the God's transformation is circumcision of the heart. Since this is figurative language (because the heart doesn't have a foreskin) it's obviously pointing to something else. I know what the transformation is and can explain it in detail because God has revealed it in scripture. I'm just trying to find out what others believe and see if they can explain it.

 

[Magenta]

So the God's transformation is circumcision of the heart. Since this is figurative language (because the heart doesn't have a foreskin) it's obviously pointing to something else. I know what the transformation is and can explain it in detail because God has revealed it in scripture. I'm just trying to find out what others believe and see if they can explain it.

It may be figurative language but it is also a spiritual reality for those who have come to love God
when they were formerly hostile in their minds toward Him, as Scripture attests of the natural man,
which many here deny, just as they also deny many other Scriptures concerning him. Only one who
is spiritually circumcised can repent, believe, and obey. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was
put off when you were circumcised by Christ.

 

[Mem]

You seem to have begun with Eph2.

Eph2 touches on the topic of Faith, Hope, and ultimately the greatest, Love, and v. 18 declares "For through Him we both have access the Father by one Spirit." Placing this as a parallel next to "saved by grace through faith," we see the 'formula' of God's salvation, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, none missing.

Faith in Hope of Love.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It's not plain as day to many if not most.

How about His meaning in answering their question about working the works of God? What are they asking Him and what is He saying in His answer?

Instead of me trying to understand what your point is through your question, why not agree with what I said and expound on it so others can learn, or disagree and state what is wrong with my interpretation?

 

[studier]

So the God's transformation is circumcision of the heart.

Scripture?

Circumcision of the heart before or after initial belief?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It may be figurative language but it is also a spiritual reality for those who have come to love God
when they were formerly hostile in their minds toward Him, as Scripture attests of the natural man,
which many here deny, just as they also deny many other Scriptures concerning him. Only one who
is spiritually circumcised can repent, believe, and obey.

I realize that and agree, but a murky understanding of what the transformation actually is leads to weird ideas and disagreements about other things dependent upon that transformation

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Scripture?

Circumcision of the heart before or after initial belief?

I was repeating what she posted. I didn't include the graphic because it takes up space

 

[Magenta]

I realize that and agree, but a murky understanding of what the transformation actually is leads
to weird ideas and disagreements about other things dependent upon that transformation

Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ.

Scripture explicitly says, as above and ... It is not murky to me

I suppose it could be murky to all those who deny that God enables people.

 

[studier]

Instead of me trying to understand what your point is through your question, why not agree with what I said and expound on it so others can learn, or disagree and state what is wrong with my interpretation?

My point IMO is simple; what is the meaning of the quoted Scriptures? What exactly is being asked and what exactly is the meaning of the answer?

To cooperate with you, on the surface I have no problem with it being clear that Jesus commanded the unbelieving to work. That's clearly what the language says.

I'd venture to say that you probably have been accused of "works salvation"? As have I.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ.

Scripture explicitly says, as above and ... It is not murky to me

Power was given to disregard the longings of the flesh and follow the spirit, but the flesh can still rule a person if a person allows, which means the will is involved

 

[studier]

I was repeating what she posted. I didn't include the graphic because it takes up space

Thanks.