Why do some people believe and some do not?
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What are we/was Paul using to persuade/convince or Who/What is ultimately using us to persuade/convince?
NKJ Proverbs 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.
That's Hebrew parallelism. His Spirit is in His words. Both have power. They are One. Why would we underestimate what He can make known through His Word/Spirit?
Back to the OP, the real question is why do some not believe? I think they simply for various reasons chose not to and, in this choosing, we see His Word/Spirit doing what He does - separating those who truly believe/receive/accept/obey/bow from those who do not.
NKJ Proverbs 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.
That's Hebrew parallelism. His Spirit is in His words. Both have power. They are One. Why would we underestimate what He can make known through His Word/Spirit?
Back to the OP, the real question is why do some not believe? I think they simply for various reasons chose not to and, in this choosing, we see His Word/Spirit doing what He does - separating those who truly believe/receive/accept/obey/bow from those who do not.
Hebrews 10:1, answers that question...
The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come,
not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again,
year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship.
.
God is God. He equates His Spirit to His Word. If I'm speaking or reading His Gospel to someone, then I'm speaking His Word which He equates with His Spirit which He equates with Himself. That pretty easily makes Him the source of the Truth that is believed and obeyed, and thus of belief in and obedience to the Truth that is believed and obeyed. All men have a choice to accept or reject Him for who He is as He has made Himself known. All men have a choice to accept what He's revealed about His Son for men to accept or to reject. If men reject what He reveals, then they reject Him. Accept or reject. Believe or don't believe. Bow or don't bow. It just doesn't seem all that complicated. I think the complexity which I also don't see as that complex anymore is how He determines who to grant to His Son and who He determines not to grant to His Son.
On another but associated note, wasn't it you once who said something about there being belief and Belief (note the cap B here)?
On another but associated note, wasn't it you once who said something about there being belief and Belief (note the cap B here)?
No to your last question.
My point is that while man's faculties are able to be employed, they are not the same as they originally were. Your explanation ignores the effects of sin on man. The mind of one who is redeemed and converted is vastly different from the mind of the natural fallen man. For instance, does the fallen natural man possess the mind of Christ?
Further, the spirit of the fallen natural man is also different from the spirit of a Christian. So much so that the Bible says he cannot receive the things of God. This is also ignored in your explanation.
So as I originally stated, what you are relaying isn't wrong, but it is misleading because it is incomplete.
My point is that while man's faculties are able to be employed, they are not the same as they originally were. Your explanation ignores the effects of sin on man. The mind of one who is redeemed and converted is vastly different from the mind of the natural fallen man. For instance, does the fallen natural man possess the mind of Christ?
Further, the spirit of the fallen natural man is also different from the spirit of a Christian. So much so that the Bible says he cannot receive the things of God. This is also ignored in your explanation.
So as I originally stated, what you are relaying isn't wrong, but it is misleading because it is incomplete.
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32 KJV
It’s actually people who consider themselves righteous who reject Jesus and scoff at his mercy and teachings
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
Luke 15:1-2 KJV
If sinners don’t turn thier ears to Jesus because they believe the gospel they’ll never hear him
Luke 5:32 KJV
It’s actually people who consider themselves righteous who reject Jesus and scoff at his mercy and teachings
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
Luke 15:1-2 KJV
If sinners don’t turn thier ears to Jesus because they believe the gospel they’ll never hear him
I know what the basics of your beliefs are and what your point is.
It doesn't seem that difficult a concept to explain to people that there is a God (they all know) who they must bow to because He is God, and that God has a Christ/KING/Son (who the Jews and God-fearing Gentiles knew about, and other Gentiles were hearing and learning about, and these days most everybody knows about) who is Jesus whom God says we must bow to.
Really, it's not so tough a concept - that of ultimate and absolute authority. Some are just making it out to be difficult. Nevertheless, some are not going to believe/bow, some are going to believe, but not truly Believe/Bow, and some are going to truly Believe/Bow and be granted by the omniscient and sovereign, etc. God to His Son who will raise them in the last day.
So, my thinking in return to you is that you are misleading people with your interpretations.
Settled?
- My thinking does not ignore the effects of sin. I disagree with you (as well as the tradition that agrees with you) that man does not retain the ability to reason and believe and be persuaded/convinced by the Word and Spirit of God about Jesus Christ.
- I disagree with you (as well as the tradition that agrees with you) re: the interpretation of the natural man in 1Cor2.
It doesn't seem that difficult a concept to explain to people that there is a God (they all know) who they must bow to because He is God, and that God has a Christ/KING/Son (who the Jews and God-fearing Gentiles knew about, and other Gentiles were hearing and learning about, and these days most everybody knows about) who is Jesus whom God says we must bow to.
Really, it's not so tough a concept - that of ultimate and absolute authority. Some are just making it out to be difficult. Nevertheless, some are not going to believe/bow, some are going to believe, but not truly Believe/Bow, and some are going to truly Believe/Bow and be granted by the omniscient and sovereign, etc. God to His Son who will raise them in the last day.
So, my thinking in return to you is that you are misleading people with your interpretations.
Settled?
I did that just in case the one who was to respond to you would do like you have been doing, simply respond using numbers, not words.
One needs to spell it out....
One needs to spell it out....
Isaiah 55:11
So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.
.
So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.
.
You just like to find fault.
When I was a supervisor, I had this one manager who whenever I would visit his store, he would begin with a barrage of complaints. So I told him he could complain all he liked, but before every complaint, he had to tell me something complimentary about his store. You can guess what happened. He had much more to be thankful about than he had to complain about.
Some people aren't always in a position to look up verses or post them. If you think that's offensive, cover the offense.
When I was a supervisor, I had this one manager who whenever I would visit his store, he would begin with a barrage of complaints. So I told him he could complain all he liked, but before every complaint, he had to tell me something complimentary about his store. You can guess what happened. He had much more to be thankful about than he had to complain about.
Some people aren't always in a position to look up verses or post them. If you think that's offensive, cover the offense.