Why do some people believe and some do not?
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Just to make certain I understand you. I'm a little slow with rhetoric at the moment:
I know.
As much as I don't care for the practice, some rarely quote much Scripture, so I may join in general discussion of principles and dig in with Scripture when I think it crucial to do so.
If "he" means me, then I know. And I think my quoted post was correct application of Is55 and what the Lord does with His Word. Did you note that the post I quoted was mine?
I think @Cameron143 and I understood one another but disagreed.
Again, a little slow with rhetoric, so apology if I've misunderstood you.
I know.
As much as I don't care for the practice, some rarely quote much Scripture, so I may join in general discussion of principles and dig in with Scripture when I think it crucial to do so.
If "he" means me, then I know. And I think my quoted post was correct application of Is55 and what the Lord does with His Word. Did you note that the post I quoted was mine?
I think @Cameron143 and I understood one another but disagreed.
Again, a little slow with rhetoric, so apology if I've misunderstood you.
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I'm going to be judging angels, and I can't very well do that without giving them an audience... or having any bias toward nor against any certain group of them but... isn't it imperative that I employ sound logic when arriving at any degree of a righteous conclusion?
The source of the carnal man's judgement is motivated of his lusts, derived from a that which operates of either an "I want" or "I do not want" pool of sensibilities. And on the other hand, the spiritual man operates from a (is it ironically or paradoxically
) grounded source that leads him to the most sensible judgments, that which operates from a solid platform of "I need" as well as one of "that which shall be provided me."
Think of Solomon. He provides an example of both approaches toward ruling. It seems to me that He had the toughest time ruling over himself and, of that, I think that we should make significant note.
I'm reminded of a rabbinical lesson that I've personally judged as a keeper, even if it came from a group that some might demand that I call into court determined to rule him "Wrong! All wrong!" and so dismiss entirely. But there is something about a man that allows his spirit to rule over his mind and subsequently his heart in contrast to a man that allows his heart to lead his mind that consequently leads his spirit...being the contrast between a kind and a fool.
The source of the carnal man's judgement is motivated of his lusts, derived from a that which operates of either an "I want" or "I do not want" pool of sensibilities. And on the other hand, the spiritual man operates from a (is it ironically or paradoxically
) grounded source that leads him to the most sensible judgments, that which operates from a solid platform of "I need" as well as one of "that which shall be provided me."Think of Solomon. He provides an example of both approaches toward ruling. It seems to me that He had the toughest time ruling over himself and, of that, I think that we should make significant note.
I'm reminded of a rabbinical lesson that I've personally judged as a keeper, even if it came from a group that some might demand that I call into court determined to rule him "Wrong! All wrong!" and so dismiss entirely. But there is something about a man that allows his spirit to rule over his mind and subsequently his heart in contrast to a man that allows his heart to lead his mind that consequently leads his spirit...being the contrast between a kind and a fool.
Psalm 116:1
I love the Lord, for he heard my voice; he heard my cry for mercy.
Wait ... what!? I thought an unsaved person couldn't do that?
I love the Lord, for he heard my voice; he heard my cry for mercy.
Wait ... what!? I thought an unsaved person couldn't do that?
Hopefully I can be of help here, it makes sense when you realize Paul is talking about jews and gentiles both being under sin. You can find out quickly by looking up the verses Paul is quoting from the OT that he does not mean to say that everyone is on their way to hell and a hater of God.
We see this in the Bible elsewhere that there are people who keep His commandments. For example:
Luke 1:6
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Zechariah and his wife Elizabeth both walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. Clearly they werent part of the "all" who are wicked and evil? Of course not, these people were holy and blameless, walking in God's commandments. There are way more examples than this.
Ezekiel 14:14
Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
The thing to note here is that we are NOT saved by our own righteousness, but thru the righteousness of God in Christ. We must be in Christ to be elect, to be saved, to have eternal life, to be righteous, to be anything. ALL spiritual blessings are IN Christ. Outside of Christ there are no spiritual blessings, no eternal life, no salvation, no righteousness.
We see this in the Bible elsewhere that there are people who keep His commandments. For example:
Luke 1:6
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Zechariah and his wife Elizabeth both walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. Clearly they werent part of the "all" who are wicked and evil? Of course not, these people were holy and blameless, walking in God's commandments. There are way more examples than this.
Ezekiel 14:14
Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
The thing to note here is that we are NOT saved by our own righteousness, but thru the righteousness of God in Christ. We must be in Christ to be elect, to be saved, to have eternal life, to be righteous, to be anything. ALL spiritual blessings are IN Christ. Outside of Christ there are no spiritual blessings, no eternal life, no salvation, no righteousness.
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That was merely a joke. It was said in jest. Using OT passages concerning salvation as proof texts is tricky as God has given fuller revelation over time. For instance, if you read through Ecclesiastes, one might conclude that salvation is the end of obedience, for this is Solomon's conclusion. It was the conclusion of the Pharisees as well. That didn't work out too well.
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For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord." Isaiah 55:8
His ways are not your ways.
And, that can be misleading if we think they are.
For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there
are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. For there must also
be factions among you, to show which of you have God’s approval. 1 Corinthians 11:18-19
That is also why we are told...
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not upon your own understanding; Proverbs 3:5
We must find out sooner or later...
We can be really dumb about God's ways as long we are convinced He is like we are in how we would do things if we were God.
Those who are humble, who can accept discovering how dumb we are, can be made wise by accepting the Truth
when corrected..
grace and peace ....
If you have no good reason to believe, then you are either insane or ignoring GW.
You have no good reason to boast about being "Born Again from above".
You are "NOT CONVINCED" because you do not use your "logic and intellect" from above.
You cannot be "strong in the Lord" without learning GW.
(Other than that, I completely agree :^)
You have no good reason to boast about being "Born Again from above".
You are "NOT CONVINCED" because you do not use your "logic and intellect" from above.
You cannot be "strong in the Lord" without learning GW.
(Other than that, I completely agree :^)
When Paul was citing about all are wicked, it was about a time of great apostasy amongst the Jews.
Why?
Gentiles had been seen as inferior by Jews. And, with good reason.
For the Gentiles had been living according to pagan god worship, which led to depravity.
Many gentiles led disgusting lives as a result.
And, when the Jews were walking with God's ways, the nation shined in a world of darkness.
The Jews gained a reputation of superiority as a people.
Jews were not allowed to freely associate with gentiles.
And NOW....
That Gentiles were coming into the fold?
Paul wanted to remove the stigma of their past and to show them that Jews were no better than they were
as long as the Jews did not obey God's laws. Paul wanted the gentiles to shed their inferiority complex before God,
and to see that all when not under God are wicked and depraved.
That is why that passage was written.
What was Paul using to show that Jews without God were no better than how the Gentiles had been living without God?
Paul cited OT Scriptures!
About Jews having gone wrong with God!
Grace and peace!
Why?
Gentiles had been seen as inferior by Jews. And, with good reason.
For the Gentiles had been living according to pagan god worship, which led to depravity.
Many gentiles led disgusting lives as a result.
And, when the Jews were walking with God's ways, the nation shined in a world of darkness.
The Jews gained a reputation of superiority as a people.
Jews were not allowed to freely associate with gentiles.
And NOW....
That Gentiles were coming into the fold?
Paul wanted to remove the stigma of their past and to show them that Jews were no better than they were
as long as the Jews did not obey God's laws. Paul wanted the gentiles to shed their inferiority complex before God,
and to see that all when not under God are wicked and depraved.
That is why that passage was written.
As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
Romans 3:10-12
What was Paul using to show that Jews without God were no better than how the Gentiles had been living without God?
Paul cited OT Scriptures!
About Jews having gone wrong with God!
Psalms 14:1-3
Psalms 53:1-3
Eccles. 7:20
Grace and peace!
This is exactly why we cannot turn to Christ in our own strength! He is the one who provides spiritual blessings, righteousness and a new heart, all of which which are needed to have eternal life through salvation.
Rock of Ages
Not the labors of my hands
can fulfill thy law's demands;
could my zeal no respite know,
could my tears forever flow,
all for sin could not atone;
thou must save, and thou alone.
Rock of Ages
Not the labors of my hands
can fulfill thy law's demands;
could my zeal no respite know,
could my tears forever flow,
all for sin could not atone;
thou must save, and thou alone.
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amen he is the ark of salvation
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
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How is turning to Christ being in our own strength?
You guys have it as if Jesus goes window shopping and picks people out of coffins.
If that were the case?
It's God that causes unbelievers.
And, judges and condemns them any way?"
God gets what He wants... right?
He is Sovereign and does as He pleases... right?
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved
and to come to a knowledge of the truth."
( advance to the epignosis/full knowledge!)
Calvinism needed refinement.
But they jumped on it to escape the tyranny of the Vatican
The prototype had flaws.
You guys have it as if Jesus goes window shopping and picks people out of coffins.
If that were the case?
It's God that causes unbelievers.
And, judges and condemns them any way?"
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving
be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live
peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases
God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge
of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:1-4
God gets what He wants... right?
He is Sovereign and does as He pleases... right?
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved
and to come to a knowledge of the truth."
( advance to the epignosis/full knowledge!)
Calvinism needed refinement.
But they jumped on it to escape the tyranny of the Vatican
The prototype had flaws.
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