Why do we argue over the meaning of scriptures in the Bible among ourselves?

[allsaved]

In my opinion this thread has evolved into a good example of what this site should be, a healthy discussion of spiritual things without bullying and petty disputes. It's a first time experience for me at CC. I might hold off on cancelling my membership.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I think it comes down to tact. Some people don’t have good reading comprehension and that’s apparent on a medium where the sole form of communication is reading. There are good ways to tell people this and bad ways.

I think it’s best to just not give unsolicited advice even when it’s constructive and intentions are good. I think the sensibilities of people are very easily offended on this message board. In my culture, people aren’t easily offended. So what I see is there is not an objective right or wrong here.

the bible tells us to be all things to all people. and to be a light.

If you think you may offend someone by what you say. the best thing to do is to not say it.

Again, If I disagree with you and give my opinion of a passage without fluff. Then I have nothing to worry about. if they are mad or hurt because you have a different opinion. that is on them

 

[Diakonos]

I appreciate your ambitions. I once longed to be a teacher (of some sort) in a modern-day church, though I do not any longer. The two primary reasons for such is that I'm not interested in the fact that an incredibly high percentage of people do not agree, at all, on the meaning of Scripture. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be able to offer my "sermon" in full concentration as I looked across the "flock" of "my" church, realizing that nearly all don't agree with me. And then there is the senseless fighting and bickering, such as what we see, here.

Second, the more I can to learn about the Bible, the more I recognize that what I believed kept changing. What's the point in being a teacher or preaching if I keep realizing how wrong I have been? Or, it is reasonable to think that "finally I have arrived! I've finally gotten the Bible figured out!" Another example of this is: Nearly 30 years ago I wrote a personal book on how to be happy. Needless to say, I was utterly miserable, wishing that I were not alive for, at that point in my life, about fifteen years of my living. It is a collection of writings at about 260 pages. I'm both glad and thankful that I wrote that material, but I no longer agree with the entire set of contents today. This lends to the idea of the futility of being a teacher. Why be a teacher if one day I will come to realize that the things I wrote were in error? And, how horrific it is to realize that what I once taught people was wrong. Having felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God to the degree that I nearly died, the thought of teaching things that are wrong is enough to cause me to take heed to the teaching that many of us should not be teachers. If we aren't extremely afraid of being wrong in our teachings, then I'm not certain that being a preacher or teacher is a wise thing to do.

Before you continue in your writings, I would focus on getting the Gospel figured out. I would get that concept nailed down before anything else. We don't want to be like the rest of the World. Doesn't it seem reasonable that we would have that particular writing first and foremost? After all, the Gospel is the essence of our Faith. The Gospel is the "Story of God," but is that really the Gospel or is that just another way of merely describing the Gospel? The Gospel is never offered in the form of a mere description, rather, the True Gospel is to be offered by explanation. There is a gulf of a difference between describing the Gospel, and explaining the Gospel.

When a person claims that, "The Gospel is the Good News of Jesus Christ!" - That is folly. The "Good News" is not the Gospel, but instead, the "Good News" is a mere title to a chapter of a potential of a book. The contents of the chapter are an explanation of the description; the title of the chapter. No one can knock on a door and say, "The Good News of Jesus Christ" and save a soul through that message. There must be an explanation, the same explanation that Phillip gave to the Eunuch; the same explanation that Paul and his companions gave to the Jailer and his family. But what is the entire package? What did they actually teach? Or, was Phillip only in the carriage for a mere ten seconds . . . or, did he enter the chariot because the explanation took a while to diseminate?

Check this out and be amazed: Once I became honest with myself and proclaimed that I really didn't know what the Gospel was (beyond the standard quips that I was blurting out for several decades), I wanted to understand why. I also realized that because of the Internet, I could write to virtually every pastor in America, if not the English-speaking world, and ask every church to explain the Gospel to me. In my introduction, I stated that I wasn't requiring that they spend the time to type it out, but if they would like, they could simply send a copy of a pre-written sermon that outlined the Gospel, or send a pre-written, personal explanation of the Gospel that they had previously written. The results? Not one had a sermon or a pre-written explanation of the Gospel that they were able o send to me. To make sure, I asked them point-blank if they had either a sermon or pre-written paper that they could send to me . . . not one of them did. Holy Cow! It's no wonder that "we" don't understand the Gospel, for were not being taught.

In these communications, not one of them mentioned Abraham and why he is our Father of Faith. Not one of them mentioned the Spiritual Circumcision of Jesus. Spiritual Circumcision was instituted in the life of Abraham . . . how can this be ignored? I would not suggest that the Gospel [is] Spiritual Circumcision, for this would be another chapter title, but instead, I would say that the Gospel [revolves] around Spiritual Circumcision. Any True form of the Gospel must include the teaching of the Circumcision of Christ and what it means. Any True and whole Gospel must include the explanation of the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ. Again, those three points are mere chapter titles, but it is the explanation of them wherein we will come to understand the Gospel.

And so, as it became most evident, no one is knocking on my door to explain the Gospel because we do not understand it. We THINK we do, but in our foggy minds, we must conclude that we really do not. There is a reason for why I can walk into virtually any church and I will [not] hear people talking about the core and center of our Faith . . . the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Instead, I will hear people lighting and talking about worldly things. Anyone who has the Gospel Truly embedded within their hearts cannot contain themselves; nothing is more important. Yet, we do not hear this Love of the Gospel when we enter into churches. The last church I attended happened to be "Baptist." The pastor, for the seven months that I attended, didn't even reference the Holy Name of Jesus from the pulpit a single time. We did learn, however, about gun safety, his favorite burger joint, and how to make papyrus paper multiple times.

Here is what I would recommend that you do: Create an Excel spreadsheet and begin keeping track of every Bible passage that address the question . . . "What is the Gospel of Jesus?" Get yourself a timeline, chronological reading of the entire Bible, and begin with Genesis chapters 1 through 3 as day one. Learn the story of the Bible, for the Gospel is discovered in the "Story of God." Paul talks about the Mysterious Plan in Ephesians chapters 2 and 3. Before each reading, consider his words that pertain to this Mysterious Plan, and consider Colossians 2:9-15 before each reading. As said, after you have consider these three sets of passages, begin your daily reading of the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order. If you do this, you will hold a primary advantage over nearly all people that you speak with regarding the Holy Word of God.

In your youth, you are wise and I admire you. Do not be like the pastors that I have written to that were unprepared to share the Gospel in a realistic form. We should be prepared to offer the Gospel before we offer anything else. The ability to share the Gospel is of first importance. It must be clear in our minds. Lastly, I would add this: If someone asks me to explain the Gospel (and no one ever does, especially in a church), the first response should be, "How much time do we have?" The reason for this is that we can give it in a matter of minutes, or we could spend an entire year reading of the Gospel in a timeline, chronological order. The Gospel is simple, yet it is complex.

I believe in you.

Thank you for sharing your heart.
I consider the preparation process highly important (2 Tim 2:15) and I'm a huge believer in being efficient with my time (Eph 4).
The future holds something beautiful because he makes everything beautiful in its time (Ecc 3).

 

[Diakonos]

most of the things we are contentious about are not salvation issues.

I used to believe that and discovered that it was an excuse to not be diligent to handle the word accurately.
Salvation is threefold...first spirit, then soul, then body (from the inside out); salvation is two instances (justification and glorification) with a lifetime of sanctification in-between. ("renewing the mind" [Rom 12]/"salvation of the soul" [1 Pet 1].

Our spirits were saved when we became a child of God.
Now our soul is "being saved" through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor 1:18, 2 Cor 2:15).
And our body will be saved when we are resurrected in the likeness of Christ's resurrection.

Sanctification is the ongoing salvation of our souls, so the effect that the word of God has on our minds is a salvation issue.

““Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.” (John 17:17)​

 

[BrotherMike]

Just make that over 50 (and remove the last two zeros). More like over 30. God will not be examining denominations per se. He will be examining individuals regardless of denomination.

50? That seems small

 

[JesusLives]

All Christian people accept the Bible is true and God's words to the world.

Why do we join in community and not discuss but argue over what the various teachings or supporting passages are actually saying?
Is it up to us to translate God's words to our liking?

And why is it that in most all Christian communities the BDF, Bible Discussion Forum, is the most incendiary , drama filled, anger filled, confrontational, mean, board of any other on any Christian community site?

Tricky little thing is we forget that the Bible is all about Jesus and not about us and our beliefs. If we would take more time to reflect on Him and His character and try to be more like Him we wouldn't have time to argue about the stuff that doesn't matter. Learning to love each other is more of what we all need to do, but few take the time to learn the lessons Jesus was trying to teach us.

We would be better off if we could forget the what we know and start showing each other the who we know....(Jesus)

 

[Bingo]

Tricky little thing is we forget that the Bible is all about Jesus and not about us and our beliefs. If we would take more time to reflect on Him and His character and try to be more like Him we wouldn't have time to argue about the stuff that doesn't matter. Learning to love each other is more of what we all need to do, but few take the time to learn the lessons Jesus was trying to teach us.

We would be better off if we could forget the what we know and start showing each other the who we know....(Jesus)

"Amen"!

 

[Nehemiah6]

50? That seems small

We could have another thread on Christian denominations (excluding cults) if you wish. Or you could check out the lists of denominations and then sort out true denominations. For example Anglicans (including Episcopalians) are one denomination. Baptists another, Reformed another, and so on. Sub-groups are not really denominations since they hold to the fundamentals of that denomination.

 

[wintersrain]

People come on here and try to lead other Christians into their obvious error.

It is good to show everyone that error so they don't go down the same path.

Of course. There's a way to do so that doesn't appear mean spirited. Though I will say after encountering that myself, sometimes the only language those type understand is their own.
Even Jesus had a temper so it isn't something to be ashamed of when someone goes off on a troll or the like once in awhile. After all, what draws demons from Hell more than the light they're allergic to and seek to overcome if allowed?

Those who hate the Bible join these type forums for the purpose of mocking our faith and pushing false teachings. I think they get a kick out of watching us try to lead them aright when they've no intention or consciousness that would allow a change.
Years ago I would have judged that a shame. Now after years of experience I don't do that. They are a shame. And they are damned and could care less. I know this because they rant and rail against truth at every turn.

When God can't reach them, it would be pride and hubris on my part to think I can after being rebuffed repeatedly. And there is also that factor of mean spirited people. They like to start trouble wherever they go and assume any disguise just to begin. That's not a shame either in my view. That's just pathetic.
"They need Jesus!" If they believed that they'd repent shortly after throwing down on any forum.

So yes, it is vital we correct false doctrine. What I'm wondering about is why those who are in Christ can't get along? Attend church and it can be the same thing. While in service everyone's peaceful and in accord.
But get them into a Bible study and broach any given topic and watch out.

Rarely do things stay peaceful overlong. And there it is all a bunch of people who see each other face to face on Sunday's at the very least. Shouldn't be all that surprising I guess when it is that and worse on the anonymous Net.

 

[Snacks]

If we would take more time to reflect on Him and His character and try to be more like Him we wouldn't have time to argue about the stuff that doesn't matter.

Best answer so far. 100% accurate.

 

[wintersrain]

Just make that over 50 (and remove the last two zeros). More like over 30. God will not be examining denominations per se. He will be examining individuals regardless of denomination.

God sees the heart. That's what he will judge I think.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

God sees the heart. That's what he will judge I think.

Precious friend, God Changed the heart from wicked to righteous; God Will Judge:

"good works (gold, silver, precious stones), and bad works (wood, hay, stubble)
1 Corinthians 3:8-15.

GRACE And Peace...

 

[wintersrain]

Precious friend, God Changed the heart from wicked to righteous; God Will Judge:

"good works (gold, silver, precious stones), and bad works (wood, hay, stubble)
1 Corinthians 3:8-15.

GRACE And Peace...

All hearts?

 

[crossnote]

Besides the fact that Christian Forums contain a mixed multitude, saved and unsaved, even we, as Christians see through a glass darkly....

1 Corinthians 13:12 (NASB) For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

 

[Marilyn]

All Christian people accept the Bible is true and God's words to the world.

Why do we join in community and not discuss but argue over what the various teachings or supporting passages are actually saying?
Is it up to us to translate God's words to our liking?

And why is it that in most all Christian communities the BDF, Bible Discussion Forum, is the most incendiary , drama filled, anger filled, confrontational, mean, board of any other on any Christian community site?

Hi wintersrain,

Some really good answers there. I might add is that we are coming to the fullness of the faith. Over the centuries, (as the Apostle Paul warned, (Acts 21: 29 & 30) there has been an eroding of the truth, and then in the Middle ages a restoring of truth. And we are coming to the fullness of truth.

The `whole Counsel` of God that the Apostle Paul taught, (Acts 21: 27) is finally being revealed. All truths are being clarified, as Jesus said, (John 16: 13) by His Holy Spirit. However there is still a battle to stop the Body of Christ from coming to the unity of Faith, (Eph. 4: 13) by the Holy Spirit.

So it is not only people`s wrong motives, but we are in the midst of the final battle of Satan trying to stop believers coming to the full truth, the Whole Counsel of God.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Runningman]

the bible tells us to be all things to all people.

I don’t think that’s what 1 Cor. 9:19-23 says. It sounds like being all things to all people was Paul’s preaching strategy.

and to be a light.

Amen

If you think you may offend someone by what you say. the best thing to do is to not say it.

Have you ever told a child no and they cried? That’s growing pains.

Again, If I disagree with you and give my opinion of a passage without fluff. Then I have nothing to worry about. if they are mad or hurt because you have a different opinion. that is on them

Sounds good

 

[Marilyn]

How does the Body of Christ Mature.


The Apostle Paul gave the early disciples the whole counsel of God. They were taught the full revelation of Christ, His character and His purposes.

`For I (Paul) have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27)


Here is a summary of the main truths, then the errors that came in and finally the restoring of those truths through the centuries.

1.Ministry gifts (Eph. 4: 11) - Bishops were substituted. (AD 110)
2.Holy Spirit infilling and gifts - Formalisation of worship. (3rd C)
3.Holiness - Amalgamation of Church and State. (AD 323)
4.Baptism for believers - Infant Sprinkling. (6th C)
5.Justification by Faith - Penance Indulgence. (AD 1063 / Dark Ages)

6.Reformation, Lutheran - Justification by Faith. (1517)
7.Baptist - Full Immersion. (1608)
8.Methodist - Holiness. (1738)
9.Pentecostal - Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (1906)
10.Apostolic - Christ`s ministries (Eph. 4: 11) (1916) & the Eternal Purposes.

Christ`s ministries, (apostle, prophet, teacher, pastor, evangelist) develop the believers and the whole Body into spiritual maturity and understanding. They stimulate the perfecting of the `Christ life` and promote the function and ministry of each member in the Body.


When Christ ascended `He gave some (people) to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the Body of Christ,


Till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ......may grow up in all things into Him who is the head - Christ.` (Eph. 4: 11 - 15)

 

[wintersrain]

Hi wintersrain,

Some really good answers there. I might add is that we are coming to the fullness of the faith. Over the centuries, (as the Apostle Paul warned, (Acts 21: 29 & 30) there has been an eroding of the truth, and then in the Middle ages a restoring of truth. And we are coming to the fullness of truth.

The `whole Counsel` of God that the Apostle Paul taught, (Acts 21: 27) is finally being revealed. All truths are being clarified, as Jesus said, (John 16: 13) by His Holy Spirit. However there is still a battle to stop the Body of Christ from coming to the unity of Faith, (Eph. 4: 13) by the Holy Spirit.

So it is not only people`s wrong motives, but we are in the midst of the final battle of Satan trying to stop believers coming to the full truth, the Whole Counsel of God.

regards, Marilyn.

Well said Marilyn.

 

[CS1]

All Christian people accept the Bible is true and God's words to the world.

Why do we join in community and not discuss but argue over what the various teachings or supporting passages are actually saying?
Is it up to us to translate God's words to our liking?

And why is it that in most all Christian communities the BDF, Bible Discussion Forum, is the most incendiary , drama filled, anger filled, confrontational, mean, board of any other on any Christian community site?

Truth matters.

 

[wintersrain]

Truth matters.

Of course. So too does the reflection of Christ in his community of the faithful.