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Pray tell what is satisfactory to you? There are only a few that ever find out what the gate into God's kingdom actually is and you even argue that his assessment in that regard is untrue. If you think I'll ever agree with what you believe I advise you not to hold you breath until I do. The bare fact is that if you do not have the faith to believe that the law of God has been modified and have the faith to obey the modification you most certainly will not escape paying the penalty of eternal death. There are no exceptions. It is the law.
A
is it me or do you find the following statements kind of circular and illogical?
1. REPENT is found in the Old testament. example: Jonah had the people of Niveneh repent. Jeremiah tells the people to repent and turn back to God.
REPENT was not a new concept. John the baptist told people to repent.
the LAW of FAITH and grace by the shed blood of Christ is the NEW COVENANT.
You don't seem to understand what true faith is.
its not just believing in a word. it is believing in the work of Christ upon the cross. the cleansing blood, the wiping of requirements written against us.
2. is another confused statement... rom 2:13
[h=3]Romans 2:13[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP](for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
so does that law refer only to repentance or to the Law given by Moses?
3. is false, as shown in 1, repent was in the OT
4. remission of sins in the OT was done by the blood of animals a foreshadowing of the NT remission of sins by the shed blood of Jesus. however that does not establish what the NEW Covenant entails.
adding REPENT to the Old Covenant is not the NEW Covenant.
5. you have no clue what I believe faith is and you probably have not read any of my previous posts or you would speak such convoluted lies...
1. REPENT is found in the Old testament. example: Jonah had the people of Niveneh repent. Jeremiah tells the people to repent and turn back to God.
REPENT was not a new concept. John the baptist told people to repent.
the LAW of FAITH and grace by the shed blood of Christ is the NEW COVENANT.
You don't seem to understand what true faith is.
its not just believing in a word. it is believing in the work of Christ upon the cross. the cleansing blood, the wiping of requirements written against us.
2. is another confused statement... rom 2:13
[h=3]Romans 2:13[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP](for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
so does that law refer only to repentance or to the Law given by Moses?
3. is false, as shown in 1, repent was in the OT
4. remission of sins in the OT was done by the blood of animals a foreshadowing of the NT remission of sins by the shed blood of Jesus. however that does not establish what the NEW Covenant entails.
adding REPENT to the Old Covenant is not the NEW Covenant.
5. you have no clue what I believe faith is and you probably have not read any of my previous posts or you would speak such convoluted lies...
For that matter REPENT was taught by John the Baptist. But it is only in regard to the sin of the Lord's murder that the unilateral requirement by law has been established that ONLY by the faith of repenting of this one sin is the forgiveness of ALL past sins forgivable. However if you refuse, and you find this fact reprehensible, you will deliberately commit the sin that is counted as a violation of the whole law and only it is not forgivable. Rom. 2:13 is NOT referencing the law of Moses. As for what you believe it is a falsehood.
G
Sin was always sin. But the Law gives power to it. But, as Paul tell us, the Law is not bad, because it makes us aware of sin. Under the New, the power of sin has been removed. Jesus defeated sin for us because we were never worthy or able.
Galatians 3
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? [SUP]5 [/SUP]So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Romans 9:32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
Romans 3:27-31
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.[SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.[SUP]31[/SUP]Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
People often read verse 31 to say that we are still under the Law of Moses, but if we live our lives under the direction of the Holy Spirit, then the Law is established in the non-believer, though we are not under it. I am not great man, but even through my bumbling, sinful self people have noticed that Jesus is in me. They somehow pick up that I am a Christian even when I have not said anything regarding spiritual matters. If read a little further
, we see:
1 Timothy
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, [SUP]9 [/SUP]realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers[SUP]10 [/SUP]and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, [SUP]11 [/SUP]according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
So the Law is for those that are not led by the Spirit. The Law led/leads us to Jesus, who freely offers us the Holy Spirit, who is a trustworthy guide - We just need to listen to Him. But we, being led by the Spirit, show the love and the Law of God.
Galatians 3
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? [SUP]5 [/SUP]So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Romans 9:32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
Romans 3:27-31
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.[SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.[SUP]31[/SUP]Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
People often read verse 31 to say that we are still under the Law of Moses, but if we live our lives under the direction of the Holy Spirit, then the Law is established in the non-believer, though we are not under it. I am not great man, but even through my bumbling, sinful self people have noticed that Jesus is in me. They somehow pick up that I am a Christian even when I have not said anything regarding spiritual matters. If read a little further
, we see:1 Timothy
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, [SUP]9 [/SUP]realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers[SUP]10 [/SUP]and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, [SUP]11 [/SUP]according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
So the Law is for those that are not led by the Spirit. The Law led/leads us to Jesus, who freely offers us the Holy Spirit, who is a trustworthy guide - We just need to listen to Him. But we, being led by the Spirit, show the love and the Law of God.
G
The Jews thought that Jesus violated the Sabbath because by that time they had made the keeping of the Sabbath very grievous by the various traditions that they had added to the commandment. As the Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus came to show us a model for the proper observance of the Sabbath. This includes the doing of good works--healing, etc.
As a Christian, I believe that the Moral Law (the Sabbath is included here) remains as a guide for behavior, although the Ceremonial Law has been fulfilled by Christ because they were meant to be foreshadows of His ministration.
As a Christian, I believe that the Moral Law (the Sabbath is included here) remains as a guide for behavior, although the Ceremonial Law has been fulfilled by Christ because they were meant to be foreshadows of His ministration.
K
Rant, the law is not dead it is fulfilled in Christ and if you accept Him then you will keep the law and by the law I mean the ten commandments as it is impossible to keep the mosaic law. I meant, there is no altar and there is no holy of holies.
But with the Holy Spirit you don't look at your neighbors wife and say HUH or umm I'd like to have that. I mean you may look and say hey she's a pretty girl and go on about your business. The law is written in our hearts and I have already been over what the heart is. We do things that before salvation we did not do and we do not do things that we did before salvation. The difference is that we got saved and try our best to be Christ like and Christ fulfilled the law.
At the same token we are not bound by law, but by the conviction of The Holy Spirit which is above law. This is what Abraham lived by and so shall we. The just shall live by faith. Faith in what? Faith in the work of the cross and nothing else.
But with the Holy Spirit you don't look at your neighbors wife and say HUH or umm I'd like to have that. I mean you may look and say hey she's a pretty girl and go on about your business. The law is written in our hearts and I have already been over what the heart is. We do things that before salvation we did not do and we do not do things that we did before salvation. The difference is that we got saved and try our best to be Christ like and Christ fulfilled the law.
At the same token we are not bound by law, but by the conviction of The Holy Spirit which is above law. This is what Abraham lived by and so shall we. The just shall live by faith. Faith in what? Faith in the work of the cross and nothing else.
G
1. Pray tell what you think these universal laws are.
2. My point is that commandments were already existent during Cain's time. If there weren't any law. he had no sin.
3. God intends for us to rest on the seventh day, not just any day. This is very clear from Genesis and from the Ten Commandments and from Jesus' example and that of the disciples. The Sabbath is a very great blessing for me as this is what God meant it to be. I say to those who choose not to keep the Sabbath that I do not demean their Christianity because of not keeping the Sabbath. I accept then as disciples, although if they would study it, I think the Sabbath could also be a great blessing for them as they dwell in the grace of God. I don't keep it to earn any merit or to be justified. That is why it is not a burden but a delight, as I, too, delight in God's saving grace on that day.
2. My point is that commandments were already existent during Cain's time. If there weren't any law. he had no sin.
3. God intends for us to rest on the seventh day, not just any day. This is very clear from Genesis and from the Ten Commandments and from Jesus' example and that of the disciples. The Sabbath is a very great blessing for me as this is what God meant it to be. I say to those who choose not to keep the Sabbath that I do not demean their Christianity because of not keeping the Sabbath. I accept then as disciples, although if they would study it, I think the Sabbath could also be a great blessing for them as they dwell in the grace of God. I don't keep it to earn any merit or to be justified. That is why it is not a burden but a delight, as I, too, delight in God's saving grace on that day.
G
Just as you keep the spirit of the Law by refraining from but don't violate the letter of the law by not murdering, so you keep the Spirit of the Law by trusting in God's grace, so you should also keep the letter of the Law by keeping the Sabbath not as a means for gaining righteousness as the Jews did but as a response of love for being saved and as a delighting in God's gifts through Creation and Redemption.
2
a true christian is one who is born again and the wpirit lives through him
the spirit never breaks the law for that is the character of God
we are told because of that, the test to see if someone is a christian and born again is compare them to the ten commandments
if any one of those is not being followed they are false christians.
not only that, they are channels for the devil
sa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
the spirit never breaks the law for that is the character of God
we are told because of that, the test to see if someone is a christian and born again is compare them to the ten commandments
if any one of those is not being followed they are false christians.
not only that, they are channels for the devil
sa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
2
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye break the commandments not. And if any man break the commandments, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
so if you break them
go to Jesus
say sorry help me please
and keep on keeping the commandments
and you are his child of obedience
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye break the commandments not. And if any man break the commandments, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
so if you break them
go to Jesus
say sorry help me please
and keep on keeping the commandments
and you are his child of obedience
G
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus. (Revelation 14:12)
Obedience comes when a person is a true believer. Just as God gave the commandments to those He had redeemed from slavery in Egypt, so the commandments remain as a guide for the behavior of those saved through faith in Christ. You see, the cart is not before the horse.
Obedience comes when a person is a true believer. Just as God gave the commandments to those He had redeemed from slavery in Egypt, so the commandments remain as a guide for the behavior of those saved through faith in Christ. You see, the cart is not before the horse.
G
You give 100% of your life to God and then you tithe 10% of your income.
You worship God every day and then you worship God on the Sabbath together with other believers.
The depth of the New Covenant does not take away the shallows of the letter of the law. The letter of the Law kills when it is relied upon for justification because works can never justify a man. But He who has been justified walks in obedience to His Savior. His faith has room for the Law as a guide for his behavior. Rev. 14:12.
You worship God every day and then you worship God on the Sabbath together with other believers.
The depth of the New Covenant does not take away the shallows of the letter of the law. The letter of the Law kills when it is relied upon for justification because works can never justify a man. But He who has been justified walks in obedience to His Savior. His faith has room for the Law as a guide for his behavior. Rev. 14:12.