Why does Eschatology divide the Church into 3 camps

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Nov 12, 2015
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I think the best preacher would be the one who presents his own eschatological thoughts but that who admits that no one fully knows exactly how all of prophecy will play out because it is confusing to humans - partly because many verses go back and forth in time and partly because some things are sealed until the time of the end.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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I can see that Maxwell. If you are trying to teach someone a complete and systematic theological construct, and you are amillenial, those who believe in a pre-trib gathering will run into a problem with some of the scaffolding that is erected. And vice-versa.

But surely this happens in seminary too. How do they deal with it there?
That's going to depend on which seminary you choose.
:)


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Nov 12, 2015
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not so sure, and remember those who are alive will be caught up (raptured) to meet with Christ in the sky, they will have never died.

they may be just two men,, John the baptist was elijah, yet he was not he came in the spirit of elijah, may be the same may not be, could be moses and elijah as many believe.
Actually, yes, you have brought up something I never considered or factored in to my equation. Thank you!
It is true that Paul has said some will NEVER face that first death.

And so, those 2 men do not have to die to fulfill prophecy.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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That's going to depend on which seminary you choose.
:)


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You mean you have to know exactly what you believe echatologically and choose whichever seminary agrees with you? Or do they allow differing eschatological views in a seminary? Will you flunk if you write a paper on a different view than the seminary claims all of its teachers believe?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Could you even find all of the teachers needed for a seminary and have them all totally agree...?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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You mean you have to know exactly what you believe echatologically and choose whichever seminary agrees with you? Or do they allow differing eschatological views in a seminary? Will you flunk if you write a paper on a different view than the seminary claims all of its teachers believe?
Just like any classroom, your job as a student is learn whatever they teach.
As far as your personal view... they may never ask for it, lol.

What they teach will be whatever they teach.
There are seminaries, and teachers, of all stripes and calibers.


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Nov 12, 2015
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Just like any classroom, your job as a student is learn whatever they teach.
As far as your personal view... they may never ask for it, lol.

What they teach will be whatever they teach.
There are seminaries, and teachers, of all stripes and calibers.


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Well, if it were me, I would look for one that presents all of the views eschatologically.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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Well, if it were me, I would look for one that presents all of the views eschatologically.
No one should spend money on ANY school without checking out the school and the teachers.

It's your money; if you're going to buy education, buy the kind of education you want.

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Enoch987

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2017
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Amil, 1 Peter 4, the end is near.
Preterist, 2 Peter 3, the tribulation that 1 Peter 4 wrote about is over but the Lord didn't return.
Peter was martyred by Nero in 68 AD.
The Romans warred against Israel from 67 to 73 AD.
In the middle of the 7 year war, the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.
Amil says this is the Abomination that Desolates that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15, referring to Daniel 9-12.

Premil says the Abomination that Desolates will happen 1290 days to 1335 days before the blessing of the resurrection of the just and unjust (Daniel 12:1-2) but premil also says the resurrection of the unjust occurs 1000 years after the resurrection of the just.
Those justified by believing in Jesus are resurrected when Jesus returns (the second coming).

Amil says that Premil is wrong and the 666 mark of the beast of Revelation 13 is symbolic not literal.

There is a postmillennial belief that Christian will make the world a better place then Jesus returns.
This belief feel out of favor with the sinking of the Titanic and world wars.

For your homework, compare 1 Thessalonians 4-5 with 2 Thessalonians 2 to see if you believe in amil/pretrib rapture or post trib resurrection. Then search for the phrase 'like a thief in the night.' The last place in the bible where this phrase is found is Revelation 16 before the final bowl of God's judgment is poured out.

There are 7 seals in Revelation which is the introduction/overview.
7 Trumpets then 7 bowls of judgment. Then the 1000 years of King Jesus who rules on earth.
The last chapters of Isaiah tell a bit about the 1000 years (the Messianic kingdom on earth) but the 1000 years are written only in Revelation 20 so amils take the view that Revelation is the history of the Church (true of Revelation 1-3, the 7 churches) or amils believe Revelation is a word of encouragement or it is written only to the literal 7 churches of Asia Minor.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Actually, yes, you have brought up something I never considered or factored in to my equation. Thank you!
It is true that Paul has said some will NEVER face that first death.

And so, those 2 men do not have to die to fulfill prophecy.
but the prophesy said they will die.. now I am confused..lol
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Or do they allow differing eschatological views in a seminary?
Not likely. Seminaries are for producing preachers who regurgitate the theology they have been taught, and are generally denomination-oriented. So if you disagree, you must simply walk away.

Speaking of seminaries, they have their roots in the Scholasticism of the Roman Catholic Church during the Middle Ages. When the Reformers broke away from the RCC, they did not abandon all their baggage. And later on the evangelical and fundamentalist churches all copied them, and made academic achievements the criteria for qualification to the ministry. Today evangelical churches generally demand a Master of Divinity degree for anyone to apply for a pastoral position.

But when you look at the New Testament churches, they were mini-seminaries, where faithful elders were to teach other faithful men, who would then continue to hold on to sound doctrine, and continue teaching others.

King James Bible (2 Tim 2:2)
And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

Men were not *imported* into the NT churches, and the apostles and their companions would simply keep moving on after teaching the churches God's truth.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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but the prophesy said they will die.. now I am confused..lol
I'm not sure I would classify what the apostle said there as prophecy exactly, now that you pointed out to me what you did. He said it's appointed to a man to die and then the judgement. I'd look at it more as proof against any sort of reincarnation rather than prophecy. I shouldn't have called it prophecy, I don't think.

In fact he just seems to be comparing how men only die once to how Christ only had to suffer once for all sin. I don't consider it prophecy. I learned something with your help. :)
 
Mar 28, 2016
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prophesy and parables are two different forms of spoken word.

Thanks I will add my 2 cents. looking at the foundation of parable as to the purpose

Matthew 13:34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
I
Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: no understanding from God

Prophecy which is simply the word of God it, as it works in us uses various manners of prophecy such as parables or tongues (God bringing his interpretation, prophecy) in other language other them the Hebrew alone. The New testament the first example mostly in Greek

Because the time of reformation had come, God with stammering (mocking lips)as a outward sign against those whp refused to hear prophecy was now bringing's new revelation in all the languages of the word. Male and female alike as prophets prophesying prophecy (the word of God).

Without parables the signified language that uses the things seen the temporal to give us the spiritual understanding of that parable not seen the eternal hid from natural man who must try and make some literal sense of that the understanding. When parables are misunderstood the flesh of man looks to other flesh as in who is the greastest .Parables have re pourpose

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Cor. 4:18

A parable is symbolic, you must find the symbolism
Parables use symbolism like in the ceremonial laws. they were used to preach the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory of the cross that followed.

prophesy is to be taken literally, or we can consider the prophet to be a false prophet, and not from God.
The prophecy (God's interpretation) in respect to parables cannot be taken literally. A false prophet is one who adds or subtracts from the intertation of God (Prophesy)

however, prophesy can use symbols to represent literal events or people. yet those people and events literally take place.
Yes those would be considered historical true parables. Egypt and the remove of the bonds of the Pharaoh . Is a picture of salvation (gospel) but remain historically accurate

ie, in the prophesy of daniel. Babylon and nebachandezzer were a literal kingdom and literal king represented by a head of god, and a lion.
Gold right from the garden is used to represent the believer that have been refined by the purifying word of God .The lion the tribe of Judah the tribe of our redeemer who frees us from the slavery of the god of this world.

you did not take the head of gold and symboically interpret it to mean some spiritual thing which never actually occured, You interpret who or what the symbol represents.
I think you might be confusing prophecy with fotune telling. Perophecy is simply the word of God, it can speak of the future or the events in the past

The same shoudl be used for revelations. which is a prophetic book, Many people classify it as the NT daniel.
The whole bible is the book of prophecy or book of the law (no philosophical theories of men

Parables are used in the rendering of the ten commandment in respect to the Sabbath as ceremonial law (not a moral law ) the two different renderings (Exodus and Deuteronomy) use different kinds of parable that speak of the one rest a Christian as to its spiritual meaning hid from natural man that do it literally .
.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm not sure I would classify what the apostle said there as prophecy exactly, now that you pointed out to me what you did. He said it's appointed to a man to die and then the judgement. I'd look at it more as proof against any sort of reincarnation rather than prophecy. I shouldn't have called it prophecy, I don't think.

In fact he just seems to be comparing how men only die once to how Christ only had to suffer once for all sin. I don't consider it prophecy. I learned something with your help. :)
Hey sis, I am talking about the two men who are killed. the world watches their dead bodies and cheers for three days, then they wake up and ascend to heaven.

That's prophesy.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Hey sis, I am talking about the two men who are killed. the world watches their dead bodies and cheers for three days, then they wake up and ascend to heaven.

That's prophesy.
Oh...yes...but also I was talking about the verse it's appointed to a man to die once. And I said how I thought they were the two in the OT who never died....never mind. I'm hard to follow sometimes.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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Thanks for the putting it plainly, I still need to weigh up all the pros and cons before I can settle the matter in my mind
The only thing that is plain about his reply is that it is filled with his bias!
 
Jan 6, 2018
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So every eye will see Him even those that crucified Him?

How does every eye on earth see something at the same time, is it a flat earth? and what about those that crucified Him, they are dead now, will they be resurrected?

And what about these, did Jesus lie?

Matt 10:23When they persecute you in onetown, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the SonofMan comes.

Matt 16: 28 Truly I tellyou, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Matt 26:
62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 63But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”
64“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”e
You sound like you have an antisupernatural bias.