Why does it seem like most "smart" people are atheists?

[trust_in_the_name]

Why are most intellects, university professors, successful/wealthy individuals, etc. liberals and atheists? Why does knowledge seem to draw people away from a belief in God?

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, (Romans 1:18-23)

Men suppress the truth in unrighteousness. What may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them, so they are without excuse. Therefore, their foolish hearts were darkened, and, professing to be wise, they became fools.

1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good. 2 The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. 3 They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one. (Psalm 14:1-3)

The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."

10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." (Romans 3:10-12)

17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect. 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." 20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (1 Corinthians 1:17-25)

The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness"; 20 and again, "The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile." (1 Corinthians 3:18-20)

The wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.

7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction. (Proverbs 1:7)

 

[selenah]

Do you have any evidence for any of these statements?

Are more intelligent people atheists than believers in any particular religion? (And, if so, how do you define "intelligent people"? People with an IQ over, say 120?)
Are more university professors atheists than believers?
Are more "successful" people atheists? (and there's another word that's hard to define: success)
Wealthy people? (And how wealthy? Someone who makes $40K a year, when compared to someone in Africa, is very wealthy.)

And why do you equate "liberal" and "atheist"? Do you think the two are exclusive and identical? Surely, you realize that there are liberals who believe in God, and conservatives who do not.

I would not say that knowledge "draws people away" from a belief in God. For every "smart person" who decided that God doesn't fit into their universe, I can find at least one brilliant mind who realizes that the universe is just too big to explain with science alone. For every "smart person" who refuses to believe in that which he or she cannot see, touch, smell, hear, or taste, I can find at least one intelligent soul who knows that the inability to prove the existence of something doesn't mean that you have proven the nonexistence of it.

I've met with and talked to some of the highest intellects in the world. They are theologians, philosophers, scientists, musicians, etc. I have to say, I see no evidence that intelligence has anything to do with faith, or lack thereof.

Err well no…I don’t have any real solid proof that there are more “smart” atheists than there are Christians. It’s just been my experience that the people who are more intellectual tend to laugh at religion. How do I define intelligent people? Well, there’s lots of different things someone can be intelligent in, but I was mostly talking about people who have college degrees. I live near a fairly large university, and yes most of the professors aren’t exactly in support of Christianity. I have heard that they get rid of Christian professors because they don’t fit in so that might explain why there are so many anti-Christian professors but idk. It does seem that most of the really successful (people who are well-known) aren’t Christian but again that’s just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
I know there are liberal Christians and conservative atheists. I guess I equate liberals with atheist because most of the atheists I’ve seen are liberals.

 

[trust_in_the_name]

I thought God was supposed to be the epitome of logic and truth.

But if God is logical, logic would lead people to think more logically and believe in Him, but it seems to lead people to reject God. People who smart in mathematics, true science, etc. seem to the be the ones who are more likely to reject God.

Sure evolution, progressive education, and other humanistic-based ideas are illogical, but the Bible's view point on everything seems just as illogical as atheism's logic and reasoning.

Everything always goes back to feeings (for atheists) or the Holy Spirit (for theists). What's the difference?

Most disputes of the "Christianity vs. science" type are pure nonsense. The Bible is here to teach us spiritual things, not science. And science is something we do to learn about the natural world, not the spiritual world.

The historian Caesar Baronius is famous for saying, in the context of the controversies about the work of Copernicus and Galileo, "The Bible teaches us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go." And yet, despite the embarrassing example of Galileo, it often seems we still haven't learned this obvious lesson. The whole so-called science vs. religion debate is a foolish waste of time.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Most disputes of the "Christianity vs. science" type are pure nonsense. {snip} The whole so-called science vs. religion debate is a foolish waste of time.

Wow, you're like one of the most down-to-earth and sensible people of met on Christian Chat so far. Thank you!

Here's how I like to put it: Genesis tells us Who and Why, science tells us When and How. Science doesn't really care about why, and the Bible doesn't really care about when. I have never seen a contradiction in the two, and am continually stumped as to why so many Christians and Scientists seem to think there is a contradiction.

 

[selenah]

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

If you believe the Bible, then you believe 2 Timothy 3:16-17, which says that all scripture is given by inspiration of God (literally, God-breathed). Since God breathed and inspired the scriptures, and He is inerrant, the scriptures necessarily are inerrant as well.



Wrong.



Of course, but it's not true in the first place (see below).



8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

We are saved by grace through faith, which is the gift of God.

3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:3-7)

To those whom God has given faith He has saved, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction. (Proverbs 1:7)

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

5 Then you will understand the fear of the Lord, And find the knowledge of God. (Proverbs 2:5)



We're actually incapable of doing any of those things, since we don't have any righteousness of our own.

8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; (Philippians 3:8-9)

Instead, we have the righteousness of God, who, by faith, works in us and through us. If God has chosen to save us, He will perform good works in us. True repentance is a continual state of striving for righteousness through the power of God, not living in a state of sin and just repenting of it all before you die.

Yeah but God tells us to forgive and not to hate people because if we don't we go to hell. We do that of our own free will. If God does the forgiving and takes away hate for us then doesn't that mean we don't really have a free will to choose salvation

 

[selenah]

I think another good question would be why those who are strong in their faith tend to ignore science and mathematics.

I can certainly understand the position of thinking it is LESS important than the spiritual truth found in the Bible, but science and math are a haven for atheists because we don't represent in those fields. We have surrendered them.

It is interesting that someone believes that by claiming they are an atheist, they are automatically 'smarter' than a Christian. But, again, we have allowed that. We close ourselves off into communities where we are rarely challenged intellectually. We don't see a need to balance ideas, we just ignore the ones we don't like or just pray for the people who deliver them.

God created everything in this universe with precision and intention. There is not a single thoughtless creation in existence, nor has there ever been. We need to stop hiding from science and math and recognize what it is- some of the languages through which God speaks to us. Science itself requires a measure of faith because it must be assumed that no matter where we look and how closely we look- there will be order to what we find. There will be finite laws. There will be unstoppable and unimaginable harmony.

We get wrapped up in the poetry of God (which is a wonderful thing), but tend to ignore the practicality and even details of Creation. Is it that we are afraid of what we will discover? There is no fear in love.

Without God, science will always fall short. An atheist can never answer the most important questions about humanity and the universe... the best they can do is change the questions to something they CAN answer.

But doesn't the Bible say that earthly knowledge is unimportant compared to spiritual knowledge. So in a way, isn't it better for a Christian to put his time into learning about God rather than other things?

 

[Bloodwashed]

Why are most intellects, university professors, successful/wealthy individuals, etc. liberals and atheists? Why does knowledge seem to draw people away from a belief in God?

Why consider them smart? God says the fool has said in his heart, "There is no God". Just Gods opinion! Blessings Mark!

 

[selenah]

But I can't brush them off and call them stupid. I really wish I get away from all of the debating and questions and simply know that the standard Christian Bible is God's Holy and inerrant Word. I wish I could get away from everything and just take a long walk out in the middle of nowhere and talk to God and not have to wonder if I'm talking to the right God. But I can't do that. There's hundreds of different denominations and things that people hold differing views on. Who am I supposed to believe? I can't even be sure that the Bible I have is the right one. If I don't have an absolutely clear, innerrant Bible to follow, I have no idea whether I know the right God.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

But I can't brush them off and call them stupid. I really wish I get away from all of the debating and questions and simply know that the standard Christian Bible is God's Holy and inerrant Word. I wish I could get away from everything and just take a long walk out in the middle of nowhere and talk to God and not have to wonder if I'm talking to the right God. But I can't do that. There's hundreds of different denominations and things that people hold differing views on. Who am I supposed to believe? I can't even be sure that the Bible I have is the right one. If I don't have an absolutely clear, innerrant Bible to follow, I have no idea whether I know the right God.

You're asking some great questions here. And yes, there are different versions of the Bible. Not only different translations, but for the New Testament, we really don't know what the original Greek says.

I can't tell you what to believe, but I can tell you what works for me: I don't worship the Bible. I worship God. Yes, the Bible is certainly an important book, for it tells be about God, but it seems to me too many Christians worship the Bible, instead of the one the Bible points to.

I believe in God, not because of what is written in a book, but because of what is written in my heart. I make that distinction, because the brainiacs out there can bring up all sorts of logical argument about why the Bible is "wrong." They'll say it is historically inaccurate, has contradictions, etc. They'll say, if it's wrong, why do I believe it? Well, since my faith is in God, and not in the Book, that's not a problem for me. Something doesn't have to be accurate in order to be capital-T-Truth, know what I mean?

Anyway, that's just the way I see it.

 

[trust_in_the_name]

Yeah but God tells us to forgive and not to hate people because if we don't we go to hell.

Yes, He does. Nonetheless, we don't do it, at least not without His help.

... There is none who does good. (Psalm 14:1)

... There is none who does good, No, not one. (Psalm 14:3)

... There is none who does good, no, not one." (Romans 9:12)

23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil. (Jeremiah 13:23)

Apart from God, we are incapable of doing anything good.

We do that of our own free will. If God does the forgiving and takes away hate for us then doesn't that mean we don't really have a free will to choose salvation

If we chose to be saved then we would be contributing to our own salvation. I prefer to think of salvation as an act of God, as the Bible says.

16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you ... (John 15:16)

16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. (Romans 9:16)

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12-13)

 

[Lina]

Is it realy? high educated persons are often strong belivers, doctors and teachers. Often they are shy to tell it others. At real live i dont speak about religion too, it makes people angry and they dont want to hear.

 

[mpaper345]

There is nothing hindering a Christian from learning and understanding anything that the world learns and understands,for their intellect is the same,but it could be that a lot of Christians are not interested in being in those areas,and it seems like a lot of people who claim to be a Christian in those areas,seem to have some sort of worldiness associated with them,for it seems like when a Christian has prestige in the community,they tend to go towards pride,and lose sight of the truth.

It could be that God does not direct people to be in areas like that,for the sake of causing them not to stumble,because people who seem to start making decent money become hooked on it,and the prestige of it,and it would be better if they were a simple person with a simple job,than to make a lot of money with prestige and fall aside.

That is the thing,does God direct the Christians to have jobs like that,teaching in universities,and such,where higher learning is involved,or does God try to steer them away from that.

This is the world,and they have their institutions,and colleges,and higher learning facilities,and such,and does God want the saints to be involved in that,to teach things of the world to people of the world,when in the long run it does not matter,and it would cause the saint to seem to be associated with the world instead of being separate from their ways and learning.

The world is occupied with learning things that in the long run does not benefit,and takes up time of something that does not matter.

Is God trying to keep the saints out of higher positions in society,to show that they are a simple people,not associated with the world and what they learn and occupy themselves with,but they are interested in God and His ways,and occupy their time with that,for that is what matters,and not wanting to pursue money and prestige in a worldly community.

Daniel and Joseph did have a high position in government though,but that was to direct the leaders to act right,and to be kind towards the Jewish people while they were in another country,but higher learning facilities,and occupations,have nothing to do with causing an effect for the country to be favorable towards Christians.

God seems to favor His saints to be simple people,tent dwellers He calls them,denoting their simple and humble ways,who seem to not push in society for high positions in what the world is interested.

12And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. 13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil(Ecclesiastes 12:12-14).


That is all that matters is fearing God and keeping His commandments,and as long as you have a job to provide for food and clothing you are alright,and God said having food and clothing be content.


7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ(Philippians 3:7-8).


All Paul wanted to know was Christ and His ways,and nothing else.Paul was not interested in learning things that is in the world,but only wanted to know Christ,and learn of Him.


It seems like people who go for higher positions is society,other than a simple job to provide for their needs,do so for prestige,appearing important,and money,and think they are accomplishing something important in society.

 

[Israel]

For the earnest expectation of EVERY CREATURE; that's every man woman and child, is the manifestation of the sons of God. Everyone has a measure of faith in this. They simply do not accept an image that most of organized religion has made outside of themselves.

Now if the kingdom of God is within us, then where is God??

 

[selenah]

For the earnest expectation of EVERY CREATURE; that's every man woman and child, is the manifestation of the sons of God. Everyone has a measure of faith in this. They simply do not accept an image that most of organized religion has made outside of themselves.

Now if the kingdom of God is within us, then where is God??

Meez confused

"For the earnest expectation of EVERY CREATURE; that's every man woman and child, is the manifestation of the sons of God." What does that mean?

"Everyone has a measure of faith in this. They simply do not accept an image that most of organized religion has made outside of themselves.

Now if the kingdom of God is within us, then where is God??" ....what's the answer?

 

[selenah]

You're asking some great questions here. And yes, there are different versions of the Bible. Not only different translations, but for the New Testament, we really don't know what the original Greek says.

I can't tell you what to believe, but I can tell you what works for me: I don't worship the Bible. I worship God. Yes, the Bible is certainly an important book, for it tells be about God, but it seems to me too many Christians worship the Bible, instead of the one the Bible points to.

I believe in God, not because of what is written in a book, but because of what is written in my heart. I make that distinction, because the brainiacs out there can bring up all sorts of logical argument about why the Bible is "wrong." They'll say it is historically inaccurate, has contradictions, etc. They'll say, if it's wrong, why do I believe it? Well, since my faith is in God, and not in the Book, that's not a problem for me. Something doesn't have to be accurate in order to be capital-T-Truth, know what I mean?

Anyway, that's just the way I see it.

Do you think the Bible historically accurate? I mean if it's not historically accurate how do we know it's accurate in other things? If the Bible has errors in it, it would be like any other religous book.

 

[Israel]

Meez confused

"For the earnest expectation of EVERY CREATURE; that's every man woman and child, is the manifestation of the sons of God." What does that mean?

"Everyone has a measure of faith in this. They simply do not accept an image that most of organized religion has made outside of themselves.

Now if the kingdom of God is within us, then where is God??" ....what's the answer?

Everyone has a measure of faith or belief in God. Even an athiest. One can tell you all day that he doesn't believe in God, but their actions may show the law of Christ written in their hearts. God is within us all.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Do you think the Bible historically accurate? I mean if it's not historically accurate how do we know it's accurate in other things? If the Bible has errors in it, it would be like any other religous book.

It seems like you are asking me, personally, so I will answer from my heart.

In matters of salvation, the Bible is accurate. In matters of science and technology, the Bible is not accurate, nor is it intended to be taken as such. I believe that the Bible was written by God, and that it was never intended to be taken literally. Much of it, at least, was never intended to be read as a history lesson. The Pentateuch, for example, is clearly intended to be read as a story. It is obvious by a simple reading of the text that this is how it was written. Whether you believe that God wrote it, or that Moses wrote it, or the four-source theory (JEPD) wrote it, or that tiny green men from outer space wrote it.... (yes, there are people out there who believe that aliens wrote the Bible ... and yes, I think they are crazy, too, but they think we're crazy for believing that God exists, so crazy is in the eye of the beholder) ... no matter who wrote it, it is clear that it was written to be taken as a story, an elaborate, well-written allegory.

I could figure that out all by myself when I read it for the first time at the tender age of 4 or 5 the first time I read it, without any coaching or brain-washing. For thousands of years, readers understood it that way, long before the time of Jesus, and then at the time of Jesus, and after the time of Jesus, up to about the 1880s, it was so obviously an allegory, no one even bothered to say anything else about it. If anyone reads it today without someone telling them it's supposed to be literal, they will come to the same conclusion I did, and the same conclusion millions of others have.

Then, somewhere around the 1880s, a few people started trying to twist the Scripture into a history and science text book. They tried to turn it into something it wasn't, and they called God a liar. So for the last 130 years or so, a small group of Christians have been clinging to this false claim that the Bible is supposed to be taken literally. It is a recent blip on the radar of Christendom, it is a fallacy of faith, it is impossible to support using Scripture, using logic, and using anything that is holy, and honestly, I'm so sick of the whole movement sometimes I want God just to come down and smite the whole lot of them. I lose my patience.

I pray for patience. I pray that God will give me to tools to teach what is true about the Bible. It is frustrating, when I am called every name under the sun for trying to teach this Truth. But then, Jesus warned me I would be reviled for his sake. And I continue to put my faith in God alone.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Be careful about what others say. Most people these days won't stand to say that God would give to us a revelation of himslf that is inerrent. Beware of the spirit of the age.

Inspiration, Inerrancy, Preservation <--- good article

Chicago Statement of Inerrency:
Alpha and Omega Ministries, The Christian Apologetics Ministry of James R. White <-- click

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6zudFtjI4U[/video]


Further reading:

Is the Bible Inerrant <--- click
Scripture Speaks for Itself by John Frame <--- click
IS THE BIBLE INERRANT? <--- click
What Does God Say through Human Authors? <--- click
Problems for Limited Inerrancy <--- click​

​

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

No, thank you. I have no need of brainwashing. My brain is clean, and I like being able to think for myself.

 

[selenah]

It seems like you are asking me, personally, so I will answer from my heart.

In matters of salvation, the Bible is accurate. In matters of science and technology, the Bible is not accurate, nor is it intended to be taken as such. I believe that the Bible was written by God, and that it was never intended to be taken literally. Much of it, at least, was never intended to be read as a history lesson. The Pentateuch, for example, is clearly intended to be read as a story. It is obvious by a simple reading of the text that this is how it was written. Whether you believe that God wrote it, or that Moses wrote it, or the four-source theory (JEPD) wrote it, or that tiny green men from outer space wrote it.... (yes, there are people out there who believe that aliens wrote the Bible ... and yes, I think they are crazy, too, but they think we're crazy for believing that God exists, so crazy is in the eye of the beholder) ... no matter who wrote it, it is clear that it was written to be taken as a story, an elaborate, well-written allegory.

I could figure that out all by myself when I read it for the first time at the tender age of 4 or 5 the first time I read it, without any coaching or brain-washing. For thousands of years, readers understood it that way, long before the time of Jesus, and then at the time of Jesus, and after the time of Jesus, up to about the 1880s, it was so obviously an allegory, no one even bothered to say anything else about it. If anyone reads it today without someone telling them it's supposed to be literal, they will come to the same conclusion I did, and the same conclusion millions of others have.

Then, somewhere around the 1880s, a few people started trying to twist the Scripture into a history and science text book. They tried to turn it into something it wasn't, and they called God a liar. So for the last 130 years or so, a small group of Christians have been clinging to this false claim that the Bible is supposed to be taken literally. It is a recent blip on the radar of Christendom, it is a fallacy of faith, it is impossible to support using Scripture, using logic, and using anything that is holy, and honestly, I'm so sick of the whole movement sometimes I want God just to come down and smite the whole lot of them. I lose my patience.

I pray for patience. I pray that God will give me to tools to teach what is true about the Bible. It is frustrating, when I am called every name under the sun for trying to teach this Truth. But then, Jesus warned me I would be reviled for his sake. And I continue to put my faith in God alone.

I've actually never heard that before (or I might have but don't remember lol). The Bible was mostly taken as an allegory before the 1880s? I have heard the aliens wrote the Bible idea before lol. The other day I was watching Ancient Aliens and they hinted at that...of course the History channel isn't exactly reliable. My mom says the H stands for the hillbilly channel lol. Anyways, if the Bible should be taken as an alllegory, why would it say that "all scrpiture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness"?