Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[Margo74]

“Lose the gift of eternal life”
Do you see the oxymoron in this?

Any gift your parents gave you, you accepted (in your heart, maybe, rejected as you didn't like it) and then you misplaced it/lost it and, maybe, found it again or you threw it away coz you didn't want it .. Salvation is a gift for ALL bought and paid for by Jesus Christ giving His life on the cross. We can accept it or reject it. If we accept it, we can, later, lose it by unrepentant sinning or we can choose to throw it away by choosing to sin and not repent. This is not rocket science and no oxymoron.

 

[Margo74]

Awww, a self righteous Pharisee. How adorable.

not a self-righteous Pharisee at all .. I was merely laughing at what you said to another .. I am a sinner and I humbly acknowledge such and humbly and genuinely repent .. if I choose to sin but not repent, I choose to walk away from God and to forfeit His gift of Salvation that I accepted .. I believe, I love, I obey, I repent when I disobey

 

[PennEd]

Any gift your parents gave you, you accepted (in your heart, maybe, rejected as you didn't like it) and then you misplaced it/lost it and, maybe, found it again or you threw it away coz you didn't want it .. Salvation is a gift for ALL bought and paid for by Jesus Christ giving His life on the cross. We can accept it or reject it. If we accept it, we can, later, lose it by unrepentant sinning or we can choose to throw it away by choosing to sin and not repent. This is not rocket science and no oxymoron.

Why do you who push your works doctrines, constantly either rob Jesus of His Glory by saying YOU help Him stay saved, or call Him a failure in HIS ability to keep you saved?

Jude 24-25 King James Version (KJV)
24 Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Hebrews 12:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 looking unto Jesus, the [a]author and [b]finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

PLEASE... STOP It!

 

[Lightskin]

Any gift your parents gave you, you accepted (in your heart, maybe, rejected as you didn't like it) and then you misplaced it/lost it and, maybe, found it again or you threw it away coz you didn't want it .. Salvation is a gift for ALL bought and paid for by Jesus Christ giving His life on the cross. We can accept it or reject it. If we accept it, we can, later, lose it by unrepentant sinning or we can choose to throw it away by choosing to sin and not repent. This is not rocket science and no oxymoron.

If you can lose your eternal life by committing unrepentant sin then that means God is an Indian giver and not true to his word. One minute you’re saved and the next minute you’re not. I thank God my salvation is secure in his hands, rather than insecure in my hands.

 

[Lightskin]

not a self-righteous Pharisee at all .. I was merely laughing at what you said to another .. I am a sinner and I humbly acknowledge such and humbly and genuinely repent .. if I choose to sin but not repent, I choose to walk away from God and to forfeit His gift of Salvation that I accepted .. I believe, I love, I obey, I repent when I disobey

I rejoice that you’re repentant but sadly you’re placing your faith in your hands, not God’s hands. Relax and be at peace.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Satan is doing really well in deceiving so many of you .. in latter days, many will depart from the faith .. they were saved but then departed from the faith for whatever reasons .. hopefully, some repented aka returned aka changed back to believing in God and loving Him and obeying Him ..

No disrespect Margo74, but sense this is a bible discussion forum, why don't we list some scripture reference to back up our beliefs?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Any gift your parents gave you, you accepted (in your heart, maybe, rejected as you didn't like it) and then you misplaced it/lost it and, maybe, found it again or you threw it away coz you didn't want it .. Salvation is a gift for ALL bought and paid for by Jesus Christ giving His life on the cross. We can accept it or reject it. If we accept it, we can, later, lose it by unrepentant sinning or we can choose to throw it away by choosing to sin and not repent. This is not rocket science and no oxymoron.

Read John 6:38 with an open mind and let me know how you interpret it. Jesus followed his Father's will that he should be a sacrifice for the people that his Father gave to him. His sacrifice was offered to God, for God's acceptance, not to man, for man's acceptance. Jesus further states that he would not lose even one of those that he died for, but would raise them all up at the last day. We know by the harmony of the other scriptures that not all of mankind will go to eternal heaven, so the logical conclusion is that Jesus did not die on the cross for all of mankind, and certainly not for man's acceptance.

 

[Margo74]

Why do you who push your works doctrines, constantly either rob Jesus of His Glory by saying YOU help Him stay saved, or call Him a failure in HIS ability to keep you saved?

Jude 24-25 King James Version (KJV)
24 Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Hebrews 12:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 looking unto Jesus, the [a]author and [b]finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

PLEASE... STOP It!

Sorry, I won't stop but all you need to do is ignore me. Obedience IS required and repentance when we don't obey and such is NOT works and NOT earning Salvation. Yes, Jesus wants that none will perish but He knows many will perish as they will either not choose to come to Him or choose later not to stay with Him. In either instance, He will not force anyone as such would be totally pointless. Jesus IS able to save all, IF they submit to Him and let Him work in and through them but not all will do so.

 

[Noose]

You said “no one” but I’ve seen posters who have thought their obedience would make a deal to be saved. That’s the reality why there’s a discussion in here.

Obedience and disobedience are choices as we can see it being demonstrated by Adam. If you claim that God causes people to obey then you'll be implicating God for causing sin and death to come to the world because you'd mean that He did not cause Adam to obey. Why is this simple thing messing you up?



Yea we have been given a free will, choices to make and relative to salvation, we have either to believe or not believe the Gospel can save. That Jesus only saves, that by the grace of God by faith we are saved. It’s one’s choice to receive or reject it. Are we going to reject to trust Christ completely for our eternal salvation? If someone injects works-based salvation, that what Christ did is incomplete not trusting or believing him is their choice to end up to eternal damnation.

Your illustration doe s not fit what I am trying to convey. In the New Testament scripture, Adam is not the best example of illustrating salvation. He is at best for illustrating the fall of man. Paul gave us Abraham as the best example. For Abraham believed God and is accounted unto him the righteousness of God.

Your illustration of relative to salvation or the biblical illustration relative to salvation. My choice, the biblical illustration.



What have I been messing up? Or it is you that’s messing up. Let see the scripture.



Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.



The scriptures are clear we need to work out not work for meaning we have to obey God because we are already saved. Of course, the will of God is for real believers to obey him. When the believers choose to obey God and to do of his good pleasure is actually the working of God in their lives. The ones controlling them is the Holy Spirit. They then are being filled with the Holy Spirit. The indwelling is already there but the infilling will be dependent whether we let God works in us. If we let God, then God works in the lives of believers. It’s a matter of choice to live a life as shining lights or be a dim light. So it’s our choice to let God work in you or let him not.

You obey to abide in Christ or the love of Christ, you don't obey to gain it. I'll repeat one more time, obedience is abiding in God's love, not obtaining it.

Adam will always be a perfect example of how obedience or lack of it works.

 

[Noose]

Umm, what's done in the past is for the whole world and I agree, but only those whosoever believes benefit salvation.

And what's your point?
If all men were justified and given life at Christ's death on the cross and only a few will stand saved in the end, what happened to the rest? Did they lose their justification or not? is it because of what they did or failed to do?

 

[Margo74]

You obey to abide in Christ or the love of Christ, you don't obey to gain it. I'll repeat one more time, obedience is abiding in God's love, not obtaining it.

Adam will always be a perfect example of how obedience or lack of it works.

God loves all .. sinners and non-sinners. If we love Him, we are to obey His two great commandments but do we? When we disobey, we need to genuinely repent and we shall be forgiven, our sins forgotten, and not punished. Also, repentance serves to restore our relationship with God and it strengthens us more in our resolution to over sinfulness.

 

[Noose]

Do you sin? Yes or no?

Yes and no.

 

[Margo74]

Yes and no.

I sin and I repent genuinely and in doing so, some of my sinfulness is gone but there is still more to overcome. If I stay with and in God and let Him live with and in and through me, resisting sin will be easier and sin that I have still not overcome will eventually be overcome as God will help me do so.

 

[Noose]

Eph 2:10, For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus (born again spiritually) unto good works. No good works before being born again, only after we are born again. We have a lot of work to do to maintain our relationship with God, but that is all after we have been born again, no works to initially get our relationship with him.

The bible says, "the one who loves has known God" not, "the one who knows God has loved".

This is true because God is a spirit (understanding), you can not purport to love or know an understanding but have to use the understanding for something tangible which is love others. The other way is not possible, it violates the second commandment which is having graven images of God.

 

[Noose]

I sin and I repent genuinely and in doing so, some of my sinfulness is gone but there is still more to overcome. If I stay with and in God and let Him live with and in and through me, resisting sin will be easier and sin that I have still not overcome will eventually be overcome as God will help me do so.

I agree.

But sin has two levels; one is an understanding/ spirit or lack of truth in us which leads to eternal death. This is what Christ overcomes and gives us eternal life if we abide in Him.
The second level is on the flesh - our dirty works that comes from our understanding. This one we pay by our own flesh because we have to suffer.

Adam and Eve sinned; the consequence for the spiritual sin was eternal death for all, but for the fleshly sin, each had to pay in a fleshly manner. Adam was to work and sweat for food and Eve had to bear Children in pain.

 

[Margo74]

I agree.

But sin has two levels; one is an understanding/ spirit or lack of truth in us which leads to eternal death. This is what Christ overcomes and gives us eternal life if we abide in Him.
The second level is on the flesh - our dirty works that comes from our understanding. This one we pay by our own flesh because we have to suffer.

Adam and Eve sinned; the consequence for the spiritual sin was eternal death for all, but for the fleshly sin, each had to pay in a fleshly manner. Adam was to work and sweat for food an
and Eve had to bear Children in pain.

Wowwwwwwwwwwww, now you have lost me .. if you can, please explain this more and in advance, thanks

 

[Noose]

Wowwwwwwwwwwww, now you have lost me .. if you can, please explain this more and in advance, thanks

Wowwwwwwwwwwww, now you have lost me .. if you can, please explain this more and in advance, thanks

You see, we are spiritual beings first, the physical (flesh) only came when Adam and Eve's eyes were 'opened'.

Spiritually speaking, God (The word of God) in His entirety is a command in a man's heart(spirit). It is said by the command of God, the heavens and earth were established. Adam lost this (by disobeying the command), so sin and therefore death came to the world.Now, the spirit affects the flesh and those born of Adam are sinful in the spirit and flesh too. But the flesh can not be salvage, it profits nothing and will die anyways.
The spirit is salvaged by the work of Christ. We are treasures in clay jars. We shed off this clay jars when we die.
The flesh antagonizes the spirit all the time but the spirit affects the flesh as we saw in Adams case.

 

[Margo74]

You see, we are spiritual beings first, the physical (flesh) only came when Adam and Eve's eyes were 'opened'.

Spiritually speaking, God (The word of God) in His entirety is a command in a man's heart(spirit). It is said by the command of God, the heavens and earth were established. Adam lost this (by disobeying the command), so sin and therefore death came to the world.Now, the spirit affects the flesh and those born of Adam are sinful in the spirit and flesh too. But the flesh can not be salvage, it profits nothing and will die anyways.
The spirit is salvaged by the work of Christ. We are treasures in clay jars. We shed off this clay jars when we die.
The flesh antagonizes the spirit all the time but the spirit affects the flesh as we saw in Adams case.

I can't agree with we are spiritual beings first as Adam and Eve were the only people in the beginning and their descendants which includes us came after they were expelled from Eden for disobeying God. Also, we must be born again in the Holy Spirit. If we were already spiritual beings, such would be redundant. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin and that would be a spiritual sin. All other sins are those we commit as human beings - murder, theft, adultery, ... - and all such sins are forgivable IF we repent but IF we do not repent, we shall condemn ourselves to the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. And in regard to the aforementioned sinfulness, IF we are saved we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us and working in and through us, so IF we choose of our free will to commit any sins, we are doing so knowing spiritually that we should not be doing so, so repentance that is sincere and genuine would be a definite MUST to retain our salvation.

 

[Noose]

I can't agree with we are spiritual beings first as Adam and Eve were the only people in the beginning and their descendants which includes us came after they were expelled from Eden for disobeying God. Also, we must be born again in the Holy Spirit. If we were already spiritual beings, such would be redundant. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin and that would be a spiritual sin. All other sins are those we commit as human beings - murder, theft, adultery, ... - and all such sins are forgivable IF we repent but IF we do not repent, we shall condemn ourselves to the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. And in regard to the aforementioned sinfulness, IF we are saved we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us and working in and through us, so IF we choose of our free will to commit any sins, we are doing so knowing spiritually that we should not be doing so, so repentance that is sincere and genuine would be a definite MUST to retain our salvation.

Ok.

 

[notuptome]

Try reading God's Word and you will see how wrong you are .. all I can do is reiterate .. faith, love, obedience to God's Will, repenting genuinely when you fail to obey .. repent or perish ..

We are saved by grace because we cannot obey. Israel has a long history of promising to obey then turning away from Jehovah. Christians promise to obey and then fail almost immediately after the words leave their lips.

The problem here is that most people are not honest with themselves before God. Without grace we cannot be saved. Without grace we cannot take a single step in righteousness. Without the seal of the Holy Spirit we would alienate ourselves from Gods presence.

Those who are saved can never come again into condemnation.

Many who profess do not possess. many are religious but remain unsaved and headed for eternity apart from Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger