Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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jesus gave that answer in John 3
He uses Moses and the bronze serpent as an Example. The serpent was able to save everyone.But not everyone was saved.
Why?
I think Jesus answered this too.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
You see. God was punishing them for their rebellion and their complaining.
God however also sent them something that would save them
some did Not want to admit they were guilty. So they refused to look, they continued in unbelief, and suffered their fate
Some confess their guilt. Repented. And look in faith. They lived (literally were born again)
Jesus used this to be an example of his salvation.
Those who do not want to repent or admit their error. Will continue in unbelief and remain condemned
Those who do see their guilt and in faith repent and believe. They will be saved.
In this Case, jesus said they will live forever. And never perish
He uses Moses and the bronze serpent as an Example. The serpent was able to save everyone.But not everyone was saved.
Why?
I think Jesus answered this too.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
You see. God was punishing them for their rebellion and their complaining.
God however also sent them something that would save them
some did Not want to admit they were guilty. So they refused to look, they continued in unbelief, and suffered their fate
Some confess their guilt. Repented. And look in faith. They lived (literally were born again)
Jesus used this to be an example of his salvation.
Those who do not want to repent or admit their error. Will continue in unbelief and remain condemned
Those who do see their guilt and in faith repent and believe. They will be saved.
In this Case, jesus said they will live forever. And never perish
Revelation 22:17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
Note "Whoever desires"
Not all desire or want to put their faith in Jesus for salvation.
People have been rejecting Jesus ever since he came to save us.
Note also it's all about what Jesus has done and continues to do so that saves us and NOT US who save ourselves.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
Note "Whoever desires"
Not all desire or want to put their faith in Jesus for salvation.
People have been rejecting Jesus ever since he came to save us.
Note also it's all about what Jesus has done and continues to do so that saves us and NOT US who save ourselves.
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So you believe that it is YOUR pathetic miniscule faith, and YOUR feeble and fading strength that provides for YOUR eternal security?
Really? Thats YOUR swelling opinion of YOURSELF?
I will tell you what, if God should be remiss in providing your daily bread for a week, you would keel over.
THAT is where you are at buddy. Really.
Really? Thats YOUR swelling opinion of YOURSELF?
I will tell you what, if God should be remiss in providing your daily bread for a week, you would keel over.
THAT is where you are at buddy. Really.
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Thats how the other 11 were doing it....
Whether Judas was or not is unknown.
G1849 - exousia - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
BTW.....there is a difference:
G1411 - dynamis - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
Whether Judas was or not is unknown.
G1849 - exousia - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
BTW.....there is a difference:
G1411 - dynamis - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
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Eisegetical practices in scriptural interpretations is so prolific.
In relation to the OP:
2 Timothy 2:11-13
11 [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
If we carry the OP to its logical conclusion, then we may as well expect to see Peter burning in the pits of Hell. The problem is that salvation is not the focus of this context of three verses, nor is it the focus of the broader context. Peter denied Christ three times in one night, and was greatly ashamed, but not to the point of fearing for loss of salvation so far as we are told in the text.
The very sentence immediately preceding that key phrase of denial speaks of reigning with Christ, and before that being dead with Christ, and after that phrase it speaks of one believing not, and yet Christ remaining faithful because He cannot deny Himself.
What does all that mean? Simply stated, a true faith in a life brings one to being sealed by Holy Spirit. I personally don't believe Holy Spirit has a weak grip on anyone who has faith in the Gospel, in that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, was buried three days, and then raise back up into life according to the scriptures, just as Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8.
Now, granted, there are many who never had genuine faith in what Christ accomplished for all mankind to partake, and yet go along with the program, attending churchianity regularly, et al, and yet go back to their life of sinful pleasures like the proverbial dog returning to its vomit, never having truly had saving faith, and are used as instruments of proof for loss of salvation when they never had salvation in the first place. Dedication to religious vigor in practice doesn't prove anything by way of true, saving faith. I have yet to meet anyone who had the outflow of godly fruit from a genuine salvation in their life, who later lived like the devil.
So, it makes sense that the Lord would not countenance one who has denied Him to rule and reign with Him in the new Heavens and new earth.
Injecting salvation into the context is itself highly questionable in the arena of proper hermeneutics.
Bad fruit in a life saved by grace will suffer loss, with all the hay, wood and stubble of that life burning away in the fires of testing, and the individual left, proverbially smelling as if they had been bought at a fire sale, but saved nonetheless.
MM
In relation to the OP:
2 Timothy 2:11-13
11 [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
If we carry the OP to its logical conclusion, then we may as well expect to see Peter burning in the pits of Hell. The problem is that salvation is not the focus of this context of three verses, nor is it the focus of the broader context. Peter denied Christ three times in one night, and was greatly ashamed, but not to the point of fearing for loss of salvation so far as we are told in the text.
The very sentence immediately preceding that key phrase of denial speaks of reigning with Christ, and before that being dead with Christ, and after that phrase it speaks of one believing not, and yet Christ remaining faithful because He cannot deny Himself.
What does all that mean? Simply stated, a true faith in a life brings one to being sealed by Holy Spirit. I personally don't believe Holy Spirit has a weak grip on anyone who has faith in the Gospel, in that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, was buried three days, and then raise back up into life according to the scriptures, just as Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8.
Now, granted, there are many who never had genuine faith in what Christ accomplished for all mankind to partake, and yet go along with the program, attending churchianity regularly, et al, and yet go back to their life of sinful pleasures like the proverbial dog returning to its vomit, never having truly had saving faith, and are used as instruments of proof for loss of salvation when they never had salvation in the first place. Dedication to religious vigor in practice doesn't prove anything by way of true, saving faith. I have yet to meet anyone who had the outflow of godly fruit from a genuine salvation in their life, who later lived like the devil.
So, it makes sense that the Lord would not countenance one who has denied Him to rule and reign with Him in the new Heavens and new earth.
Injecting salvation into the context is itself highly questionable in the arena of proper hermeneutics.
Bad fruit in a life saved by grace will suffer loss, with all the hay, wood and stubble of that life burning away in the fires of testing, and the individual left, proverbially smelling as if they had been bought at a fire sale, but saved nonetheless.
MM
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Another facet of this topic is the phenomenon of having been "born again"...how does one become UNborn again? There is not one verse anywhere throughout the Bible that gives credence to that phenomenon of becoming UNbron again. Satan himself cannot be redeemed, which is true of all the angels that rebelled with him. Some things simply cannot be undone or reversed and so will never be in danger of being undone.
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
So, in the final analysis, ALL who ever had true, saving faith, will suffer loss of reward and inheritance for evil deeds, but will be saved "so as by fire."
MM
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
So, in the final analysis, ALL who ever had true, saving faith, will suffer loss of reward and inheritance for evil deeds, but will be saved "so as by fire."
MM
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Proof of eternal security right here....
Exo 17:3
And the people thirsted there for water; and the people murmured against Moses, and said, Wherefore is this that thou hast brought us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst?
Hint: He (Jesus) didn't bring them out of Egypt to kill them.
Salvation is not a lie (the accusation of Satan). God's promises cannot fail.
God will always lead us thru the wilderness to the promised land.
Same goes here.....
Jos 7:7
And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord GOD, wherefore hast thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side Jordan!
Exo 17:3
And the people thirsted there for water; and the people murmured against Moses, and said, Wherefore is this that thou hast brought us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst?
Hint: He (Jesus) didn't bring them out of Egypt to kill them.
Salvation is not a lie (the accusation of Satan). God's promises cannot fail.
God will always lead us thru the wilderness to the promised land.
Same goes here.....
Jos 7:7
And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord GOD, wherefore hast thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side Jordan!
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