Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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TheDivineWatermark

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Is there a wrong being saved that no one ever mentions? because these verses are also found, are they a warning skimmed over as "non applicable" or never seem to come up? "I never knew you" or you will be that wedding guest without the right garment and get kicked out into utter darkness, Or you will be one of the many are called when few are chosen, or the virgin without enough oil in their lamp, or one of the ones who will be deceived and take the mark, or the other places that THE BIBLE says it is a narrow path?
I've covered, in about a billion posts, what "the kingdom of the heavens" pertains to... lol (no way one could say I've merely "skimmed over" them! :D )

[And Jesus said "*I* AM THE WAY..."]
 

Nat2019

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Just being one of the 12 does not necessarily mean that Judas was saved. Apparently, Judas may have believed that Jesus' name has the power to heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12). Even though Judas may have looked like the real deal to the remaining 11 disciples, Jesus knew his heart and said that he is a devil!" (John 6:70)
Why did Satan enter Judas when the passover was approaching. He didn't have satan in him before that, when he was chosen by Jesus?
Satan came in while the passover was approaching and not before that why?

So Judas didnt have satan in him before the passover and wasnt a devil the nearly the whole time as a disciple.

Luke 22:1-4 New International Version (NIV)
Judas Agrees to Betray Jesus
22 Now the Festival of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, 2 and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus, for they were afraid of the people. 3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4 And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.
 

Nat2019

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Judas iscariot ONLY received the devil before the passover and betrayal of Jesus.

Before that he didnt receive the devil.

So if he was a devil (all) along why did the devil come into to him at a certain time. Why didnt Judas have the devil inside him all along?
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Just being one of the 12 does not necessarily mean that Judas was saved. Apparently, Judas may have believed that Jesus' name has the power to heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12). Even though Judas may have looked like the real deal to the remaining 11 disciples, Jesus knew his heart and said that he is a devil!" (John 6:70)
Yes, and the way I read it, there was only ONE person to whom the identity of the betrayer was revealed.

Interesting details supplied... much to ponder about that...
 

mailmandan

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The only issue with this statement is that it doesn't explain faith in Christ. Faith is nothing more than hope and assurance of salvation.
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Hope can not and will never result into deeds or works. Hope is just hope. You can hope and sleep until Jesus returns without doing anything.
You have the wrong kind of hope which is not uncertain. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith then we have this hope. Faith is the assurance of things HOPED for.. (Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life (Titus 3:7).

Your connection of faith and good works fails.
Faith is the ROOT of salvation and good works are the FRUIT. No fruit at all would demonstrate that there is no root. It's your connection of faith and good works that fails because you teach that BOTH faith AND works are the root of salvation because you teach salvation by faith and works.
 

Nat2019

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Yes, and the way I read it, there was only ONE person to whom the identity of the betrayer was revealed.

Interesting details supplied... much to ponder about that...
Where does it say this passage relates to Judas?
John 1:10-13 New International Version (NIV)
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Judas iscariot ONLY received the devil before the passover and betrayal of Jesus.

Before that he didnt receive the devil.

So if he was a devil (all) along why did the devil come into to him at a certain time. Why didnt Judas have the devil inside him all along?
How long (time-wise) before the setting of that passover did Jesus speak the words of John 6:70, when He'd said, "and one of you IS a devil" ? [present indicative active]
 

mailmandan

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Judas iscariot ONLY received the devil before the passover and betrayal of Jesus.

Before that he didnt receive the devil.

So if he was a devil (all) along why did the devil come into to him at a certain time. Why didnt Judas have the devil inside him all along?
Jesus referred to Judas as a devil before the betrayal (John 6:70) and Jesus also said that Judas was unclean before the betrayal (John 13:10-11). Judas didn't need to have the devil actually enter him from the beginning or betray Jesus from the beginning in order for him to be an unbelieving, unclean devil. You are really grasping for straws now in an effort to accommodate your biased doctrine at all costs. :rolleyes:
 

TheDivineWatermark

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TheDivineWatermark said:
Yes, and the way I read it, there was only ONE person to whom the identity of the betrayer was revealed.

Interesting details supplied... much to ponder about that...
Where does it say this passage relates to Judas?
John 1:10-13 New International Version (NIV)
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Can you perhaps re-phrase your question? I'm not seeing how your question relates to what I had put (and your quoting of my post, there). Thanks.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Jesus referred to Judas as a devil before the betrayal (John 6:70) and Jesus also said that Judas was unclean before the betrayal (John 13:10-11). Judas didn't need to have the devil actually enter him from the beginning or betray Jesus from the beginning in order for him to be an unbelieving, unclean devil. You are really grasping for straws now in an effort to accommodate your biased doctrine at all costs. :rolleyes:
I have to agree. (y)
 

Nat2019

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How long (time-wise) before the setting of that passover did Jesus speak the words of John 6:70, when He'd said, "and one of you IS a devil" ? [present indicative active]
Jesus knew from the beginning which ones didn’t believe, and he knew who would betray him.)

JUDAS WAS in the group of 12 disciples, this lot didnt walk away because they "believed ".
68 Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words that give eternal life. 69 (We believe), and we know you are the Holy One of God

65 Then he said, “That is why I said that people can’t come to me unless the Father gives them to me.”

66 At this point many of his disciples turned away and deserted him. 67 Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?”

68 Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words that give eternal life. 69 We believe, and we know you are the Holy One of God.[a]”

70 Then Jesus said, “I chose the twelve of you, but one is a devil.” 71 He was speaking of Judas, son of Simon Iscariot, one of the Twelve, who would later betray him.

The time frame isnt stated.
 

Sipsey

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Sep 27, 2018
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Oooo… can you tell me which of his books this is taken from? I have a few, and would like to know (if I might have it). Thanks.
I copied it from my FB page. I get regular quotes posted. Not sure if it’s from one of his books, maybe a sermon. I studied his life and writings after seeing some of his quotes a few decades ago. He heard the gospel being preached in the parking lot of a tire plant parking lot as he was going in to work.

I retired after 38 years of walking into a tire plant, so I have an affinity for his writings. He studied and opened a small church. He was rejected by mainstream religion of the time. He lived what he peached, that to me is the true measure of a man; does what he write match what he does, in private.
 

Nat2019

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According to OSAS doctrine was Solomon saved?

You say Judas wasnt, but was Solomon?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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I've covered, in about a billion posts, what "the kingdom of the heavens" pertains to... lol (no way one could say I've merely "skimmed over" them! :D )

[And Jesus said "*I* AM THE WAY..."]
I am sorry you thought I was speaking in anyway but general terms of the churches of today. I mentioned that in the beginning, I did not go back and read it but the "churches" part must have gotten edited out. Sorry you took offense. Like I said at the bottom, or did I? this may not be for you. I am thinking it wasn't for you. I guess this will just be a billion and one:oops:
 

Nat2019

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Wow I have a "biased" doctrine that is prejudiced. Look at all the prejudice comments from OSAS believers. Wow and my doctrines Biased.

you say I am
*Self- righteousness
*Dishonest
*Abusing Gods Grace
*Deceitful
*Twisting the word of God.
*A waste of time
*A person who babbles

Where have these biased ideas come from?

You OSAS believers
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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Jesus referred to Judas as a devil before the betrayal (John 6:70) and Jesus also said that Judas was unclean before the betrayal (John 13:10-11). Judas didn't need to have the devil actually enter him from the beginning or betray Jesus from the beginning in order for him to be an unbelieving, unclean devil. You are really grasping for straws now in an effort to accommodate your biased doctrine at all costs. :rolleyes:
So its possible
Jesus referred to Judas as a devil before the betrayal (John 6:70) and Jesus also said that Judas was unclean before the betrayal (John 13:10-11). Judas didn't need to have the devil actually enter him from the beginning or betray Jesus from the beginning in order for him to be an unbelieving, unclean devil. You are really grasping for straws now in an effort to accommodate your biased doctrine at all costs. :rolleyes:
Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mat 12:49-50)

Jesus pointed to Judas and called him a brother who did the will of his father.
 

Nat2019

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So its possible

Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mat 12:49-50)

Jesus pointed to Judas and called him a brother who did the will of his father.

Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Mat 19:28)

Judas was one of the twelve and was promised a thrown by Jesus.