Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

[Johnny_B]

It is not meaningless but is man's side. Election is God's side

Amen!!! God frees our will and we respond gratefully to His call by grace. When the Spirit circumcision your heart to see your sin. You become very wise as in "wisdom is the fear of the Lord" you are so grateful that He has awaken your heart to see the kingdom and His wrath, that you can only respond in faith and repentance, escaping His furious anger towards you and your sin that I loved so much. When you see your sin, there is but one response and that is faith with repentance, to experience truly being free.

The verse can comes alive, "who the Son sets free is free indeed" You do nothing but worship Him for His glorious grace and mercy towards you. The first day I said to myself I'm saved, maybe this is the enemy trying to confuse me, but when I cries out have mercy on me Lord, I felt the freedom from sin and it's weight. What I experienced when I first came to the Lord, was nothing compared to this feeling of the fear of the Lord and HIs eternal judgement on me and my sins.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

"The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us..."

- Deuteronomy 29:29

Sadly it has been revealed but the ones who call themselves pre elected ignore it

 

[Spokenpassage]

Sadly it has been revealed but the ones who call themselves pre elected ignore it

You must know something we all don't

 

[Spokenpassage]

Here is a question I have for the opposing side:

Does God love the sinner who is suffering his wrath in eternal hell? Please provide Scripture and an explanation with it.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Here is a question I have for the opposing side:

Does God love the sinner who is suffering his wrath in eternal hell? Please provide Scripture and an explanation with it.

Luke 18:15-17Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Blessing the Children
15 Some people were even bringing infants to Him so He might touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 Jesus, however, invited them: “Let the little children come to Me, and don’t stop them, because the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 I assure you: Whoever does not welcome the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

So if children belong to the kingdom of God because they are not condemned by the law of right and wrong.

Then the only logical conclusion is everyone has the choice to be saved. Once the child hears of God and his word and grasps in understanding the meaning of right and wrong then will be held accountable of their choice to respond. To hear, believe, repent and confess.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Here is a question I have for the opposing side:

Does God love the sinner who is suffering his wrath in eternal hell? Please provide Scripture and an explanation with it.

Revelation 20:13-14Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

13 Then the sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead; all[a] were judged according to their works. 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Death and hell was thrown into the lake of fire which is God making these 2 oblivious to exist.

God is a good and fair judge. Even God doesn't allow the souls in hell to be tortured forever.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Revelation 20:13-14Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

13 Then the sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead; all[a] were judged according to their works. 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Death and hell was thrown into the lake of fire which is God making these 2 oblivious to exist.

God is a good and fair judge. Even God doesn't allow the souls in hell to be tortured forever.

Huh? Srsly? Are you an annihilationist?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Luke 18:15-17Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Blessing the Children
15 Some people were even bringing infants to Him so He might touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 Jesus, however, invited them: “Let the little children come to Me, and don’t stop them, because the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 I assure you: Whoever does not welcome the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

So if children belong to the kingdom of God because they are not condemned by the law of right and wrong.

Then the only logical conclusion is everyone has the choice to be saved. Once the child hears of God and his word and grasps in understanding the meaning of right and wrong then will be held accountable of their choice to respond. To hear, believe, repent and confess.

Your hermeneutics are way off. He did not mean that little children were in the Kingdom of God, but that those who are saved have become like little children, in that children trust those who are over them.

And the only choice ppl make in regards to being saved is to say 'no thanks'.

As it is written:“There is no one righteous, not even one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
[SUP]14 [/SUP] “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] ruin and misery mark their ways,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]and the way of peace they do not know.”
[SUP]18 [/SUP] “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

That is from Romans 3. There are none who seek God in their unregenerate state.

 

[Katy-follower]

1 Cor 1:10-17: "Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you.

Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect"

Labels like "I'm a Calvinist" or "I'm a Lutheran" or "I'm a such-and-such" destroy the simplicity of the message of Christ. Non believers get confused with all these labels. Me... I am of Christ. These other people are just men, who were not crucified for me.

 

[trofimus]

Labels like "I'm a Calvinist" or "I'm a Lutheran" or "I'm a such-and-such" destroy the simplicity of the message of Christ. Non believers get confused with all these labels. Me... I am of Christ. These other people are just men, who were not crucified for me.

"I am a Calvinist" does not mean we follow Calvin. Most of calvinists probably never read anything from him (and I read The Institution and About the Lord's Supper only).

It just expresses what we believe about some issue, in this case about soteriology.

Non believers will get confused always, anyway.

 

[preacher4truth]

Luke 18:15-17Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Blessing the Children
15 Some people were even bringing infants to Him so He might touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 Jesus, however, invited them: “Let the little children come to Me, and don’t stop them, because the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 I assure you: Whoever does not welcome the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

So if children belong to the kingdom of God because they are not condemned by the law of right and wrong.

Then the only logical conclusion is everyone has the choice to be saved. Once the child hears of God and his word and grasps in understanding the meaning of right and wrong then will be held accountable of their choice to respond. To hear, believe, repent and confess.

No, no. You're simply reading tradition and bad presupposition into the text. Salvation isn't via free will choice as many Scriptures prove.

 

[valiant]

It has to be the most useless doctrine known to man - non elect are going to hell, may as well make a havoc while the party last.

Actually it is the most precious. Those who are non-elect are unaware of the fact therefore will not be affected in one way or the other. Those who are elect rejoice in the glory and grace of God and strive to please Him at all times.

 

[trofimus]

Actually it is the most precious. Those who are non-elect are unaware of the fact therefore will not be affected in one way or the other. Those who are elect rejoice in the glory and grace of God and strive to please Him at all times.

Non-elect do not want to be elect, anyway.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

It depends on how you understand Tulip.



It may stop them 'striving'. It encourages their continuance in Him as we work together with Him knowing that He holds us safe...



Because God told him to, as He has told us all. And because he had a worth while message to proclaim?



I am not a Calvinist. I am a Scriptural believer.

And that makes you a Calvinist.

No you are wrong. A Calvinist is someone who follows Calvin. I do not follow Calvin. I do not even know in detail what he teaches. I believe in election because the Bible teaches it.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

Actually it is the most precious. Those who are non-elect are unaware of the fact therefore will not be affected in one way or the other. Those who are elect rejoice in the glory and grace of God and strive to please Him at all times.

Non-elect do not want to be elect, anyway.

The choice, such as it is, is theirs

 

[valiant]

Luke 18:15-17Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Blessing the Children
15 Some people were even bringing infants to Him so He might touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 Jesus, however, invited them: “Let the little children come to Me, and don’t stop them, because the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 I assure you: Whoever does not welcome the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

So if children belong to the kingdom of God because they are not condemned by the law of right and wrong.

Then the only logical conclusion is everyone has the choice to be saved. Once the child hears of God and his word and grasps in understanding the meaning of right and wrong then will be held accountable of their choice to respond. To hear, believe, repent and confess.

what Jesus was saying is that those who come with an open uncluttered mind like a little child's are the ones whom He is seeking, It is them to whom the kingdom of God belongs,

 

[valiant]

Sadly it has been revealed but the ones who call themselves pre elected ignore it

All that the Father gives to Me will come to me (John 6.37)

He has chosen us in Christ before the world began (Eph 1.4)

Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began --' (2Tim 1.9).

That is enough for me.

 

[Johnny_B]

No you are wrong. A Calvinist is someone who follows Calvin. I do not follow Calvin. I do not even know in detail what he teaches. I believe in election because the Bible teaches it.

I feel the same way, I've never read any of Calvin's books either, I believe what the Bible teaches n election and I don't believe in double predestination like Calvin teaches or Calvinists. I know people what to place you in a group but I find it interesting that when someone believes it's their faith that saves them over God's grace, no one calls them an Arminian.

I find it interesting how many people there are that believe in Biblical election that have never read or heard of Calvin. Yet they have come to believe the Bible in almost the same as Calvin. When I was a new believer I read Romans 8:28-30 and believed what it said and the pastor of the Church I was going to told me that what I believed it said was wrong, that foreknowledge was God foreseeing that I would chose Christ so that made me elect. About a month or so later he had an evangelist come to preach and he said, this is what election is, God has a vote, the devil has a vote and you have a vote, when you vote for Jesus you have become one of His elect. I was a young believer, so I thought I got it wrong and these guys were pastors and an evangelist so they have to know more then me.

 

[Johnny_B]

what Jesus was saying is that those who come with an open uncluttered mind like a little child's are the ones whom He is seeking, It is them to whom the kingdom of God belongs,

You don't think it's the innocence of a child or someone that has been born again?

 

[valiant]

You don't think it's the innocence of a child or someone that has been born again?

Innocence carries the implication of not knowing what has been talked about. It is ok as long as it is accompanied by further explanations. But I believe that Jesus specifically had in mind 'openness' and a readiness to receive.