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J
The question, "Why is God so mean?" is actually a question that is easy to defeat. It is very similar to the argument often called, "The Problem of Evil".
To be quite blunt. To dispose of God because we dislike something he does, presupposes that there is a way things ought to be, a moral law of sorts, which requires God. Without God, there is no standard for the way someone is to act. So we end up shooting ourselves in the foot!
EDIT: In fact, most atheists will admit that without a God that directs in some manner or another, everything that is, is only a product of chance and neccesity (or so they say).
To be quite blunt. To dispose of God because we dislike something he does, presupposes that there is a way things ought to be, a moral law of sorts, which requires God. Without God, there is no standard for the way someone is to act. So we end up shooting ourselves in the foot!
EDIT: In fact, most atheists will admit that without a God that directs in some manner or another, everything that is, is only a product of chance and neccesity (or so they say).
A
ok I'll listen when I get a chance but i have a feeling.
1 Corinthians 1:17-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[a]
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
I suggest you listen to Paris Reidhead "so great a salvation" lecture series.
So Great A Salvation - SermonAudio.com
or this one as well:
Are you saved - Paris Reidhead - YouTube
1 Corinthians 1:17-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[a]
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
I suggest you listen to Paris Reidhead "so great a salvation" lecture series.
So Great A Salvation - SermonAudio.com
or this one as well:
Are you saved - Paris Reidhead - YouTube
The following is from Christian Theology, 2nd Edition, by Millard J. Erickson, Baker Academic, Grand Rapids, MI 1998, pp. 1246-1247.
[Beginning quote]
A problem arises from the fact that Scripture speaks not mererly of eternal death (which one might interpret as meaning that the wicked will not be ressurected), but of eternal fire, eternal punishment, and eternal torment as well. What kind of God is it who is not satisfied by a finite punishment, but makes humans suffer for ever and ever? This seems to be beyond the demands of justice; it appears to involve a tremendous degree of vindictiveness on the part of God. The punishment seems to be out of all proportion to the sin, for presumably, all sins are finite acts against God. How does one square belief in a good, just, and loving God with eternal punishment? The question must not be dismissed lightly, for it concerns the very essense of God's nature. The fact that hell, as often understood, seems to be incompatible with God's love, as revealed in Scripture, may be an indication that we have misunderstood hell.
We should note, first, that whenever we sin, an infinite factor is invariably involved. All sin is an offense against God, the raising of a finite will against the will of an infinite being. It is failure to carry out one's obligation to him to whom everything is due. Consequently, one cannot consider sin to be merely a finite act deserving finite punishment.
Further, if God is to accomplish his goals in the world, he may not have been free to make human beings unsusceptible to endless punishment. God's omnipotence does not mean that he is capable of every conceivable action. He is not capable of doing the logically contradictory or absurd, for example. He cannot make a triangle with four corners. And it may well be that those creatures that God intended to live forever in fellowship with him had to be fashioned in such a way that they would experience eternal anguish if they chose to live apart from their Maker. Humans were designed to live eternally with God; if they pervert this their destiny, they will experience eternally the consequences of that act.
We should also observe that God does not send anyone to hell. ..... It is a human's choice to experience the agony of hell. [End of quote]
[Beginning quote]
A problem arises from the fact that Scripture speaks not mererly of eternal death (which one might interpret as meaning that the wicked will not be ressurected), but of eternal fire, eternal punishment, and eternal torment as well. What kind of God is it who is not satisfied by a finite punishment, but makes humans suffer for ever and ever? This seems to be beyond the demands of justice; it appears to involve a tremendous degree of vindictiveness on the part of God. The punishment seems to be out of all proportion to the sin, for presumably, all sins are finite acts against God. How does one square belief in a good, just, and loving God with eternal punishment? The question must not be dismissed lightly, for it concerns the very essense of God's nature. The fact that hell, as often understood, seems to be incompatible with God's love, as revealed in Scripture, may be an indication that we have misunderstood hell.
We should note, first, that whenever we sin, an infinite factor is invariably involved. All sin is an offense against God, the raising of a finite will against the will of an infinite being. It is failure to carry out one's obligation to him to whom everything is due. Consequently, one cannot consider sin to be merely a finite act deserving finite punishment.
Further, if God is to accomplish his goals in the world, he may not have been free to make human beings unsusceptible to endless punishment. God's omnipotence does not mean that he is capable of every conceivable action. He is not capable of doing the logically contradictory or absurd, for example. He cannot make a triangle with four corners. And it may well be that those creatures that God intended to live forever in fellowship with him had to be fashioned in such a way that they would experience eternal anguish if they chose to live apart from their Maker. Humans were designed to live eternally with God; if they pervert this their destiny, they will experience eternally the consequences of that act.
We should also observe that God does not send anyone to hell. ..... It is a human's choice to experience the agony of hell. [End of quote]
Your understanding is extremely limited. God's law is based on God's nature. God cannot violate his own nature, for then he would cease to be God. As such, since God is the source of all reality and law, He cannot be a hypocrate, for if he were, he would cease to be God.
By the way, He does exist. Your lack of belief will not save you on the last day, anymore than a baby, who does not believe in gravity, would be saved by that lack of belief, if he were to fall from a ten story window.
By the way, He does exist. Your lack of belief will not save you on the last day, anymore than a baby, who does not believe in gravity, would be saved by that lack of belief, if he were to fall from a ten story window.
Paradoxes only exist because of the finite nature of the created world. They do not exist in the eternal. God has chosen to limit himself to the pattern of his creation in his dealings with that creation. If you are a world class boxer, and you are challenged by a one armed man to a fight, and you choose to tie one arm behind you to make it fair, you are still in possession of the other arm. You choose to not use it for purposes of the fight.
Because God has created a finite world, with limitations, does not mean that he has relinquished his infiniteness, or omnipotence.
This concept may be a little difficult for you to understand. But if you really try, you might be able to grasp it.
Because God has created a finite world, with limitations, does not mean that he has relinquished his infiniteness, or omnipotence.
This concept may be a little difficult for you to understand. But if you really try, you might be able to grasp it.
You made it sound like he was not able to. Anyways, thanks for the advice. I'll try to use my miniscule brain with all my effort to understand that extremely complex metaphor that you produced with your magnificent and superior intellect. Maybe one day I'll understand how delusions make sense.
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By the way, your sarcasm and wit are extremely entertaining. I am still chuckling over what you wrote.
Why not use your gift of wit and humor in the service of others, and Christ? The rewards will be great, not only in the next life, but this one as well. Christ will free you from the bondage of sin, and his yoke is an easy one.
Why not use your gift of wit and humor in the service of others, and Christ? The rewards will be great, not only in the next life, but this one as well. Christ will free you from the bondage of sin, and his yoke is an easy one.
D
Guys please be kind... Ridicule isn't something Christians should resort to. I don't think the idea should ever be put forth that God "enjoys sending people to hell." We are all given a choice- serve Him or don't serve Him. If we do, we can spend eternity with Him. If we choose not to serve Him by the standards He commands of us, you're choosing sinful nature over Him- which He will not abide. And hell's described as a horrible place because it's the opposite of everything that God is: loving- everything good. If you didn't choose Him, where else do you go but to a place that is devoid of everything He represents?
There is one big problem with his logic Jimmydiggs.
Omnipotence - "A deity is able to do absolutely anything, even the logically impossible, i.e., pure agency"
Source:Omnipotence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Omnipotence - "A deity is able to do absolutely anything, even the logically impossible, i.e., pure agency"
Source:Omnipotence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
B
I saw some very neat thoughts on here,so I felt led to address this. This is no one who has full truth,not me,not anyone! I never saw Jesus preach fear,in place of love! I like many here fell away,to be honest with you all, i do not know of anyone who has not! Perhaps this scripture is why.( mat 26:56)
When one first come to Jesus,they are told very little,we were preached at,yelled at,pointed at,and Lord knows what else! Then those who led us,we looked at there life! HUMM they seemed no different from a lost person!! They curse,they lie,why some even steal! Making a very long story short!
When I came back,it was not man who brought me back,it was the Lord himself.( 1 john 2:27)For me, because I sure cannot speak for any of you,I hope this will help you! Matt 16:24-27 People led us to the door, and some were even pushed to the door!( rev 3:20) when we opened the door, we made a mistake,we looked back.( Genesis19:26)
We looked back because to be honest we were not sure if this was the correct door we were being led to.When we did look back,the person who led us to this door closed it. Now we are left to wonder around wondering why we first came to the door in the first place!I sure know I did. And by this time,all that could have been made known to us by a very loving Jesus was lost.BUT!!
Jesus came to save that which WAS!!! LOST!!( matt 18:11) And the next time I got to the door, as I very much hope i am leading you back to,the door will be walked through! Here is what is at the door! As we open the door and do not look back,Jesus is before us,he says to you,may I come in and dine with you,you allow this.
Jesus then tells you something the other person failed to do!! Jesus tells you do not look behind you for an example of me,you are now my example of me! I will wait for you here,please continue through the door.You reopen the door,and there before you is a cross,the same cross, that Jesus came off of just for you!( hebrews 12:2 " who for the joy set before him endured!! the cross,what was that joy Jesus saw??With all the sins of the world upon him,with all the pain he was going through,he saw YOU! ( psalm 139:13-16!)
He saw us before we were even born! But we are now required to do something!! We must DIE!! to self! This time we do not measure our faith by others! We measure our faith by the very Word of God! We do not finger point anymore,because,we ourselves are becoming accountable to Jesus!! Not to others! But Lord I am far from perfect,how can last!!
If we were to work on a puzzle, we would need all the pieces of that puzzle to finish the product,for a missing piece means the puzzle cannot be completed! ( rev 3:16) Its all or nothing time folks! WOW!! This hit me hard! So now we must decide! The whole point to this is to become reconciled to God!( 2 Cor 5:18-19) This we do by love! Not judging! we tame the tongue,we have 2 ears, and one tongue,meaning to me, we should use ours ears a lot more then we do our mouth!( james 3 please read this slow,and outloud so you hear what you are reading.why?? because rom 10:17 Faith cometh by hearing!! This takes hard work!! No question!! I sure did not do this overnight!
BUT!! now you have something you have never even thought of before!! PURPOSE!! an objective!a GOAL!! Something you can measure! Our very own life.( 2 Cor 13:5) Painful at first,we press forward in this,no hell to worry about,no fire to light us up,only the cool waters of Holy Spirit flowing through our body now!( john 7:38) we eat the Word!!( john 4:32-34)We partake of Jesus himself now!
Find a good bible based church,so you can grow,and you can help others to grow as well!! YOU have purpose now!! You have direction!( 1 Cor 2:5) we go through all of this( 1peter 1:3-9) to obtain this!!( 1peter 4:8-19) and we can do this through Jesus because of this! ( 1 John 4:7-19!!) You will know when you have completed Jesus in you!!Because your life is not yours anymore,it was given, in the very same way Jesus gave his life for you!! LOVE!( 2 Cor 5:17)
Younow come back through the door to Jesus again,who has been waiting for you!To comfort you,to encourage, never to do what you believed happened to you so long ago!!( hebrews 13:5-6) this is not my wisdom brothers and sisters,this is what I was taught by Holy Spirit.I have led you now to the correct door,will you open it? I pray in Jesus you do,because I have found that through all the toughness,and some pain,there is nothing better then peace!!( john 14:27) you will know when you have love,because you will have no fear in it! and when you have no fear,all you have is peace! Blessing be made unto you.I pray I have helped!
When one first come to Jesus,they are told very little,we were preached at,yelled at,pointed at,and Lord knows what else! Then those who led us,we looked at there life! HUMM they seemed no different from a lost person!! They curse,they lie,why some even steal! Making a very long story short!
When I came back,it was not man who brought me back,it was the Lord himself.( 1 john 2:27)For me, because I sure cannot speak for any of you,I hope this will help you! Matt 16:24-27 People led us to the door, and some were even pushed to the door!( rev 3:20) when we opened the door, we made a mistake,we looked back.( Genesis19:26)
We looked back because to be honest we were not sure if this was the correct door we were being led to.When we did look back,the person who led us to this door closed it. Now we are left to wonder around wondering why we first came to the door in the first place!I sure know I did. And by this time,all that could have been made known to us by a very loving Jesus was lost.BUT!!
Jesus came to save that which WAS!!! LOST!!( matt 18:11) And the next time I got to the door, as I very much hope i am leading you back to,the door will be walked through! Here is what is at the door! As we open the door and do not look back,Jesus is before us,he says to you,may I come in and dine with you,you allow this.
Jesus then tells you something the other person failed to do!! Jesus tells you do not look behind you for an example of me,you are now my example of me! I will wait for you here,please continue through the door.You reopen the door,and there before you is a cross,the same cross, that Jesus came off of just for you!( hebrews 12:2 " who for the joy set before him endured!! the cross,what was that joy Jesus saw??With all the sins of the world upon him,with all the pain he was going through,he saw YOU! ( psalm 139:13-16!)
He saw us before we were even born! But we are now required to do something!! We must DIE!! to self! This time we do not measure our faith by others! We measure our faith by the very Word of God! We do not finger point anymore,because,we ourselves are becoming accountable to Jesus!! Not to others! But Lord I am far from perfect,how can last!!
If we were to work on a puzzle, we would need all the pieces of that puzzle to finish the product,for a missing piece means the puzzle cannot be completed! ( rev 3:16) Its all or nothing time folks! WOW!! This hit me hard! So now we must decide! The whole point to this is to become reconciled to God!( 2 Cor 5:18-19) This we do by love! Not judging! we tame the tongue,we have 2 ears, and one tongue,meaning to me, we should use ours ears a lot more then we do our mouth!( james 3 please read this slow,and outloud so you hear what you are reading.why?? because rom 10:17 Faith cometh by hearing!! This takes hard work!! No question!! I sure did not do this overnight!
BUT!! now you have something you have never even thought of before!! PURPOSE!! an objective!a GOAL!! Something you can measure! Our very own life.( 2 Cor 13:5) Painful at first,we press forward in this,no hell to worry about,no fire to light us up,only the cool waters of Holy Spirit flowing through our body now!( john 7:38) we eat the Word!!( john 4:32-34)We partake of Jesus himself now!
Find a good bible based church,so you can grow,and you can help others to grow as well!! YOU have purpose now!! You have direction!( 1 Cor 2:5) we go through all of this( 1peter 1:3-9) to obtain this!!( 1peter 4:8-19) and we can do this through Jesus because of this! ( 1 John 4:7-19!!) You will know when you have completed Jesus in you!!Because your life is not yours anymore,it was given, in the very same way Jesus gave his life for you!! LOVE!( 2 Cor 5:17)
Younow come back through the door to Jesus again,who has been waiting for you!To comfort you,to encourage, never to do what you believed happened to you so long ago!!( hebrews 13:5-6) this is not my wisdom brothers and sisters,this is what I was taught by Holy Spirit.I have led you now to the correct door,will you open it? I pray in Jesus you do,because I have found that through all the toughness,and some pain,there is nothing better then peace!!( john 14:27) you will know when you have love,because you will have no fear in it! and when you have no fear,all you have is peace! Blessing be made unto you.I pray I have helped!