Why is praying in tongues necessary?
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I love everything God has done. He has order and intellectual ways and then He as mercy and grace that defy logic and judgment. He gives us His Law then He gives us His Mercy....... He gives us His Word then, gives us the Holy Spirit to make sense of it and understand because without the Holy Spirit, no one can know the Mind and Heart of God - to know His Ways.
God interacts with all of us differently yet, all with love, compassion, instruction, correction...... Those that believe and seek God with all their heart shall find Him and He will be known by them that love Him.
Everyone be encouraged, we are all at different places in our walk with God. Just keep your faith in Yeshua/Jesus and embrace the Holy Spirit. The Father has given us His Word and His Spirit. Those two will complete the Father's Will in each of us. It's not just the Word or just the Holy Spirit - it's both!
Enjoy your journey.......God bless you all!
God interacts with all of us differently yet, all with love, compassion, instruction, correction...... Those that believe and seek God with all their heart shall find Him and He will be known by them that love Him.
Everyone be encouraged, we are all at different places in our walk with God. Just keep your faith in Yeshua/Jesus and embrace the Holy Spirit. The Father has given us His Word and His Spirit. Those two will complete the Father's Will in each of us. It's not just the Word or just the Holy Spirit - it's both!
Enjoy your journey.......God bless you all!
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There is no such thing as praying in tongues as some are describing it as some supernatural gift. Note, they always point to self to glorify self. The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to glorify Christ, not men; John 16:14. This is one reason I know it's a farce.
Everyone who prays prays in a tongue. Mine happens to be English. Germans in their dialect, the Hispanic in theirs, Japanese in their tongue &c.
Now, go ahead, jump in you "enthusiasts" and accuse of blasphemy, that's your go-to false assertion.
Everyone who prays prays in a tongue. Mine happens to be English. Germans in their dialect, the Hispanic in theirs, Japanese in their tongue &c.
Now, go ahead, jump in you "enthusiasts" and accuse of blasphemy, that's your go-to false assertion.
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"I agree that we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon conversion.
But that is NOT the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is tied to the outpouring at Pentecost."
This is erroneous - wrong.
There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit - one way, one experience, one infilling.
When a person believes the gospel and seeks salvation they repent and follow up on this by
full immersion water baptism and seeking to receive the Holy Spirit:
"I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
To be baptized with or in the Holy Spirit is have the Spirit of God dwell within a disciple.
And of course as we all know speaking or rather praying in tongues is the only Bible evidence given in NT scripture to confirm this
baptism.
But that is NOT the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is tied to the outpouring at Pentecost."
This is erroneous - wrong.
There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit - one way, one experience, one infilling.
When a person believes the gospel and seeks salvation they repent and follow up on this by
full immersion water baptism and seeking to receive the Holy Spirit:
"I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
To be baptized with or in the Holy Spirit is have the Spirit of God dwell within a disciple.
And of course as we all know speaking or rather praying in tongues is the only Bible evidence given in NT scripture to confirm this
baptism.
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Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response. I appreciate it.
If that is your position, then you also have to believe that anyone who does not speak in tongues does not have the Holy Spirit.
It would also follow that you believe that those who do not have the Holy Spirit and the evidence of tongues are not saved.
Is that your position, or am I misunderstanding you?
If that is your position, then you also have to believe that anyone who does not speak in tongues does not have the Holy Spirit.
It would also follow that you believe that those who do not have the Holy Spirit and the evidence of tongues are not saved.
Is that your position, or am I misunderstanding you?
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What we do know is the sign of tongues/prophecy (the word of God) is not for those who do beleive the word of God . but for those who create their own oral traditions of men and think no evil in making prophecy without effect.
Can't serve two teaching masters .Prophecy and the oral traditions of men.
Look to the foundation of the doctrine of tongues in the Old testament Isaiah 28. The law was expanded in more detail in 1 Corinthian 14:21 22.
Note ….things of God
Note …things of the new creation
Note …things of natural unconverted man no faith.
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet "for all that" will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for "a sign", not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22
What does the sign confirm Waggles. A gift or a curse? ?
Can't serve two teaching masters .Prophecy and the oral traditions of men.
Look to the foundation of the doctrine of tongues in the Old testament Isaiah 28. The law was expanded in more detail in 1 Corinthian 14:21 22.
Note ….things of God
Note …things of the new creation
Note …things of natural unconverted man no faith.
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet "for all that" will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for "a sign", not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22
What does the sign confirm Waggles. A gift or a curse? ?
in sum, cessationists on this thread have been decisively refuted by documentation of speaking in tongues in the early church but well after the apostolic age. I will provide further nails in the coffin of the cessationist belief in my new thread on speaking in tongues. The claim that no one in the apostolic age believed in angel speech will also be refuted in my thread with ancient Jewish examples.
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Ancient Jewish examples as the witness of men or the eternal witness of God, prophecy?
What is meant with documentation of speaking in tongues in the early church but well after the apostolic age? According to what law?
What are tongues if not simply prophecy spoken by God? Or what we call the living word of God...... the written law?
A good place to begin is when the foundation of tongues was established. and then we can look into the new testament principle that expands on the meaning of it and what the sign does confirm . Angels are simply messengers of God they can be of the human form as apostles, sent messengers (angelos) , or the other creation of angels that have no DNA and therefore not subject to salvation..
Speaking in the tongue of men and angels is prophecy .God gives them words that he desires we hear and believe. We do not believe, by putting our living hope in angels not seen or men seen as if it was the creation which draws us towards our unseen father, as it is written.
What is meant with documentation of speaking in tongues in the early church but well after the apostolic age? According to what law?
What are tongues if not simply prophecy spoken by God? Or what we call the living word of God...... the written law?
A good place to begin is when the foundation of tongues was established. and then we can look into the new testament principle that expands on the meaning of it and what the sign does confirm . Angels are simply messengers of God they can be of the human form as apostles, sent messengers (angelos) , or the other creation of angels that have no DNA and therefore not subject to salvation..
Speaking in the tongue of men and angels is prophecy .God gives them words that he desires we hear and believe. We do not believe, by putting our living hope in angels not seen or men seen as if it was the creation which draws us towards our unseen father, as it is written.
The Thing is with the so called sign Wonders, healing und Special speaking in tongues, that these gifts began to exist After the Early Church with an big gap at 1900.
The problem is not that these gifts are there.
God Shows through the whole churchhistorie bis Night and Power through supernatural deeds.
The Problem is the teaching and the signs of this Doctrine which we find since the pentecostal movement starts in 1900.
Neither i can find this teaching. ( that baptising with the Holy Spirit is connected with speaking in tongues in the letters to the churches, nor i find in the NT that People where roling at the floor , acting and noising like animals, laughing uncontrolable and falling backwards when they received the Holy Spirit)
This Teachings hinders me to believe that this is from God.
And when it then comes up, that you are only an christian when you have the Gift of speaking in tongues. Then it seems that between the Nt- Time and 1900 no christian exist.
The problem is not that these gifts are there.
God Shows through the whole churchhistorie bis Night and Power through supernatural deeds.
The Problem is the teaching and the signs of this Doctrine which we find since the pentecostal movement starts in 1900.
Neither i can find this teaching. ( that baptising with the Holy Spirit is connected with speaking in tongues in the letters to the churches, nor i find in the NT that People where roling at the floor , acting and noising like animals, laughing uncontrolable and falling backwards when they received the Holy Spirit)
This Teachings hinders me to believe that this is from God.
And when it then comes up, that you are only an christian when you have the Gift of speaking in tongues. Then it seems that between the Nt- Time and 1900 no christian exist.
J
that means its not taught anywhere else in scripture
from Peter:
2 Peter 3:16
as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
at one time people were obliviously misunderstanding Paul. what were those misunderstandings?
from Peter:
2 Peter 3:16
as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
at one time people were obliviously misunderstanding Paul. what were those misunderstandings?
1: Those who do not speak in tongues do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit - the scriptures attest to this.
2: Salvation is not limited to the Spirit-filled church only.
There is a first resurrection and also a second resurrection. The Spirit-filled church, the saints, have the promise of the first resurrection
(1Corinthians 15 and Revelation 20).
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
Revelation 20: (ESV)
2: Salvation is not limited to the Spirit-filled church only.
There is a first resurrection and also a second resurrection. The Spirit-filled church, the saints, have the promise of the first resurrection
(1Corinthians 15 and Revelation 20).
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
Revelation 20: (ESV)
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If this your view, well. But then how you explain that before the pentecostal movement began in 1900, according to your claim no christian would be found worldwide? Because nobody taught this.
Please show me in the New testament where this was taught to the church.
Speaking in tongues was in the church used as every other gift and was no indicator for to received the Holy Spirit. Also Paul made in 1.cor.12.30 clear that not all will get the gift of speaking in tongues. That means in Corinth were Christians which had not the gift of speaking in tongues. According your claim they had not the Holy Spirit.
According your claim i have not the Holy Spirit. But i know I have him received. I know the teaching you claim is not from the Holy Spirit.
Please show me in the New testament where this was taught to the church.
Speaking in tongues was in the church used as every other gift and was no indicator for to received the Holy Spirit. Also Paul made in 1.cor.12.30 clear that not all will get the gift of speaking in tongues. That means in Corinth were Christians which had not the gift of speaking in tongues. According your claim they had not the Holy Spirit.
According your claim i have not the Holy Spirit. But i know I have him received. I know the teaching you claim is not from the Holy Spirit.
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Whatever Church is teaching this stuff to you is wrong and you should leave it.
Show me where it says if you don't speak in tongues you don't have the Holy Spirit. In fact, Paul says in several different places that NOT everybody will speak in tongues. Here is one:
1 Corinthians 12:4 There are [d]diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works [e]all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by [f]the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
Where does this idea come from that there is Salvation apart from the indwelling Spirit? It's just flat out wrong:
Romans 8:9
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Show me where it says if you don't speak in tongues you don't have the Holy Spirit. In fact, Paul says in several different places that NOT everybody will speak in tongues. Here is one:
1 Corinthians 12:4 There are [d]diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works [e]all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by [f]the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
Where does this idea come from that there is Salvation apart from the indwelling Spirit? It's just flat out wrong:
Romans 8:9
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
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