Why is praying in tongues necessary?

[MadHermit]

I have asked and will ask again, those that believe in tongues today.

The snake handlers strongly believe and speak in tongues and they base their tongues from the same passages that many use here; i.e. 1 Cor 12-14/ Acts/ Mark 16. I have a few questions:

Q. Do you think their tongue is genuine? Why not? is it because of the snake they handle? Is the difference between them and you only a snake?

You are committing the classic fallacy of setting up a silly straw man so you can knock it down and feel like you've come to terms with the issue. I remind you that God doesn't entrust His spiritual gifts to believers on the basis of their perfectly sound doctrinal systems of belief. So perhaps some of these Appalachian Pentecostals really do occasionally speak in authentic tongues. But I remind you of 2 of my strong convictions:
(1) that about 90% of speaking in tongues is of the flesh. It is the 5% that is genuine that still makes this awesome gift one of the best blessings in modern Christendom.

(2) The Jesus snake text you reference from Mark 16:17 is part of the bogus ending of Mark (16:9-20) that plagues the KJV text. It is missing in the earliest and most important Greek manuscripts of the Greek text--e. g. Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus and we even know the identity of the forger, Aristo of Pella (c. 165 AD), whose name is appended to one of the manuscripts of this Marcan addition. Also, modern scholars agree that the Greek style of 16:9-20 also gives it away as a forgery. In my career as a theology professor, I never encountered a single Bible scholar, conservative or liberal, who thought this ending was original. It is a sad irony that Fundamentalists who have the highest view of biblical inspiration prefer the most corrupt text of Scripture. Back in the early 1600s, the kJV translators simply didn't have access to the earliest and most reliable manuscripts

 

[Sketch]

… 90% of speaking in tongues is of the flesh. It is the 5% that is genuine that still makes this awesome gift one of the best blessings in modern Christendom.

I think we need to check your math. lol
Shouldn't those numbers add up to 100 percent?

 

[Waggles]

You wrote: "2: Salvation is not limited to the Spirit-filled church only. "
How is it then that those outside what you call "the Spirit-filled church" demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit?
Is this not a work of the Holy Spirit within them? Thus evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit. ???

Attributes referred to as fruit of the Spirit can be attained through discipline and self-will.
Many people have good qualities because they have an understanding that these traits are a desired outcome of their
piety and religious beliefs - and this is not just limited to Christians.

BUT in scripture Jesus and the Apostles clearly preach and testify to one sign given (in order to avoid confusing competing claims)
all disciples baptised in the Holy Spirit shall speak out in a new tongue - a spiritual language.

5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the
kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.
7 Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again.
8 The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3: Douay-Rheims Bible 1899

 

[MadHermit]

I think we need to check your math. lol
Shouldn't those numbers add up to 100 percent?

Duh, 90% bogus 5% genuine 5% uncertain!
How's that for a rationalization of bad bath? Sigh! Oh well, you get my point.

 

[MadHermit]

The Teaching of the 12 Apostles (generally referred to as Didache) was written in the NT era (around 95 AD) and its first Two Ways section was composed prior to the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple. So the Didache documents how the NT church interpreted Jesus' sayings and it interprets the unpardonable sin against the Spirit as condemning ecstatic prophecy, despite the Spirit's inner witness that this gift is being authentically exercised:

"And every prophet who [genuinely ] speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven (Didache 11)."

So we are on dangerous ground when we condemn another gift of the Spirit that might in fact be another genuine Spirit charism.

 

[wolfwint]

Attributes referred to as fruit of the Spirit can be attained through discipline and self-will.
Many people have good qualities because they have an understanding that these traits are a desired outcome of their
piety and religious beliefs - and this is not just limited to Christians.

BUT in scripture Jesus and the Apostles clearly preach and testify to one sign given (in order to avoid confusing competing claims)
all disciples baptised in the Holy Spirit shall speak out in a new tongue - a spiritual language.

5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the
kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.
7 Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again.
8 The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3: Douay-Rheims Bible 1899

So what with the athiopian in acts 8. He got only water baptism. No mention of laying hands on and speaking in tongues.
What is with the believers before 1900? You have no evidrnce that the pentscostal teaching was before 1900.
All those cjristians then where no christians according your view.
Spuergon, luther, Calvin, all foundr of the denominations where no chritians. In germany before 1907 we found no christians.

 

[Sketch]

Attributes referred to as fruit of the Spirit can be attained through discipline and self-will.
Many people have good qualities because they have an understanding that these traits are a desired outcome of their
piety and religious beliefs - and this is not just limited to Christians.

BUT in scripture Jesus and the Apostles clearly preach and testify to one sign given (in order to avoid confusing competing claims)
all disciples baptised in the Holy Spirit shall speak out in a new tongue - a spiritual language.

5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the
kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.
7 Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again.
8 The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3: Douay-Rheims Bible 1899

Nope.
They wouldn't be called the fruit of the Spirit if they were really just the acts of the flesh.
And given the motives you attributed, how could these folks be "saved" by your definition?

 

[justpassinthrough]

Hi justpassintruth,
the thing is easy. Proof to me from the scripture that all christians have to got
the gift of speaking in tongues for to please God and have a intimate relationship with him.
Show me from the scripture that praying in tongues is more important than an prayer in my motherlanguage ore in my thoughts.

Brother, what make up something that I never said.


If you don’t want the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and power to serve God, then that is between you and the Lord.


I can only show you what the scriptures say.


I have no desire to prove anything to you.


You either humble yourself and ask the Lord for the Holy Spirit baptism or you don’t.



The only question remains -


“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”


Why would Paul ask this question if it was automatic?



And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:1-6


Here is what happened when They received the Holy Spirit-

• And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

So what with the athiopian in acts 8. He got only water baptism. No mention of laying hands on and speaking in tongues.
What is with the believers before 1900? You have no evidrnce that the pentscostal teaching was before 1900.
All those cjristians then where no christians according your view.
Spuergon, luther, Calvin, all foundr of the denominations where no chritians. In germany before 1907 we found no christians.

Just because you stubbornly keep ignoring the evidence doesn’t mean there is no evidence.


When a person gets the Holy Spirit there is evidence that is seen and heard.



Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33


He poured out this which you now see and hear.



Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, Acts 8:14-18



And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,



What did Simon see, when they received the Holy Spirit?





JPT

 

[notuptome]

Just because you stubbornly keep ignoring the evidence doesn’t mean there is no evidence.


When a person gets the Holy Spirit there is evidence that is seen and heard.



Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33


He poured out this which you now see and hear.



Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, Acts 8:14-18



And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,



What did Simon see, when they received the Holy Spirit?





JPT

Not entirely true.

Evidence is internal not external. Witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirit is internal.

Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[wolfwint]

Brother, what make up something that I never said.


If you don’t want the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and power to serve God, then that is between you and the Lord.


I can only show you what the scriptures say.


I have no desire to prove anything to you.


You either humble yourself and ask the Lord for the Holy Spirit baptism or you don’t.



The only question remains -


“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”


Why would Paul ask this question if it was automatic?



And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:1-6


Here is what happened when They received the Holy Spirit-

• And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

JPT

You did not proof that this what you claimes was taught to the NT Church. Thats the Problem. And you cant.
I did not received Johns baptism. And so nobody today. But the disciples in Acts 19 in Ephesus only knew Johns baptism. Thats wir Paul asked them.

Yes, i got the Holy Spirit and i also got an gift. To distinguish the Spirits.

Btw what happens with the Athopian in Acts 8? No hands laying on, no speaking in tongues, just Water baptism.
He went back to his homecountry without knowing that he Need the baptism with the Holy Spirit to got power.

So all the christians before 1900 lives their life without knowing that they Need the baptism with the Holy Spirit to get Power for their lives.

Nobody taught them this, even not the scripture.

 

[wolfwint]

Just because you stubbornly keep ignoring the evidence doesn’t mean there is no evidence.


When a person gets the Holy Spirit there is evidence that is seen and heard.



Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33


He poured out this which you now see and hear.



Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, Acts 8:14-18



And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,



What did Simon see, when they received the Holy Spirit?





JPT

I may be stubborn, but i trust not to any Doctrine which is not taught in the Word of God.
We know from our Lord himself, that Miracles and Wonders are not only signs from God. BUT Special in the last Times the Angel of the Light use them to lead the believers away from God.

And when the bible clear says that not all christians will receive the Gift of speaking in tongues, then it is not possible that the bible teaches that praying in tongues is necessary.
We knows that the Holy Spirit gives the gifts. He then himself would exclude then a big part of the body of Christ.
Sorry you are following a false Doctrine and not the truth.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Not entirely true.

Evidence is internal not external. Witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirit is internal.

Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If you have received the Spirit, the Spirit witnesses with your spirit.



When a person gets the Holy Spirit there is evidence that is seen and heard.



Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33


He poured out this which you now see and hear.



Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, Acts 8:14-18



And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,



What did Simon see, when they received the Holy Spirit?





JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

You did not proof that this what you claimes was taught to the NT Church. Thats the Problem. And you cant.
I did not received Johns baptism. And so nobody today. But the disciples in Acts 19 in Ephesus only knew Johns baptism. Thats wir Paul asked them.

Yes, i got the Holy Spirit and i also got an gift. To distinguish the Spirits.

Btw what happens with the Athopian in Acts 8? No hands laying on, no speaking in tongues, just Water baptism.
He went back to his homecountry without knowing that he Need the baptism with the Holy Spirit to got power.

So all the christians before 1900 lives their life without knowing that they Need the baptism with the Holy Spirit to get Power for their lives.

Nobody taught them this, even not the scripture.

Stop ignoring the truth.


Your just repeating nonsense with no scriptural evidence.




When a person gets the Holy Spirit there is evidence that is seen and heard.



Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33


He poured out this which you now see and hear.



Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, Acts 8:14-18



And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,



What did Simon see, when they received the Holy Spirit?





JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

I may be stubborn, but i trust not to any Doctrine which is not taught in the Word of God.
We know from our Lord himself, that Miracles and Wonders are not only signs from God. BUT Special in the last Times the Angel of the Light use them to lead the believers away from God.

And when the bible clear says that not all christians will receive the Gift of speaking in tongues, then it is not possible that the bible teaches that praying in tongues is necessary.
We knows that the Holy Spirit gives the gifts. He then himself would exclude then a big part of the body of Christ.
Sorry you are following a false Doctrine and not the truth.

Evidence of Speaking in Tongues in the Early Church

Historical evidence of speaking in tongues in the early church from the writings of Eusebius, Irenaeus, Chrysostom of Constantinople, and Augustine of Hippo…
A.D. 33 - The day of Pentecost:
"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come they were all with one accord in one place... And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." ACTS 2:1-4
A.D. 41 - At Caesarea:
"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word... For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God." ACTS 10:44-46
A.D. 54 - At Ephesus:
"And it came to pass that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost... And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came upon them: and they spoke with tongues and prophesied." ACTS 19:1-6
A.D. - At Corinth:
"Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of Spiritual gifts, see that ye may excel to the edifying of the church... Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret... I thank my God that I (Paul) speak with tongues more than ye all."1 CORINTHIANS 14:12-18
A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says: "Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly embraced the true faith with their whole minds."
A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."
A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states: "Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.
A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days, he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman, another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."
A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."
"THIS IS THAT..."
"But Peter... lifted up his voice and said: This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; and it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh."ACTS 2:16-17
What is "this"? This is what happened in the upper room on that first Pentecostal Sunday:

1. The fire of God appeared.
2. The sound of God's Spirit was heard.
3. They were all filled.
4. They all spoke in tongues.

What is "that"? That, said Peter, is what has caused this - namely, the Spirit of God poured out as promised.
Not a word from the Old or New Testaments suggests that this outpouring would be limited to one day. Bible teaching is to the contrary:

1. The experience was for all (JOEL 2:28).
2. Tongues was to be the sign (See MARK 16:17; ISAIAH 28:11-12; 1 CORINTHIANS 14:21).
3. The experience was seen and heard (ACTS 2:33).
4. It was continued throughout all generations (ACTS 2:39).

Why "this" is "that"? This is that simply because the Holy Spirit was identified with the experience of tongues. Take this scriptural confirmation away and we indulge in guesswork of the most dangerous nature. Whether in the house of Cornelius (ACTS 10:44), or at Ephesus (ACTS 19), the lack of THIS would have frustrated the receiving of THAT - namely the wonderful and satisfying gift of the Holy Spirit, with tongues.





JPT

 

[garee]

Attributes referred to as fruit of the Spirit can be attained through discipline and self-will.
Many people have good qualities because they have an understanding that these traits are a desired outcome of their
piety and religious beliefs - and this is not just limited to Christians.

BUT in scripture Jesus and the Apostles clearly preach and testify to one sign given (in order to avoid confusing competing claims)
all disciples baptised in the Holy Spirit shall speak out in a new tongue - a spiritual language.

5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the
kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.
7 Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again.
8 The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3: Douay-Rheims Bible 1899

It would seem you are still trying to make tongues into something it clearly is not, in order to build false pride or "will worship".. .I will put my hands in the air like satellite dish to catch the movement of spirit. I will make a noise. I will fall backward. I will experience holy laughter .I will be bitten by a poisonous snake. e.t.c.

We know that prophecy is a spiritual language . Just as false prophecy is spiritual (the god of this world) Just like signs and lying wonders , a lying source of faith, a wonderment.

There are some that have made to word of God without effect and turned a sign that shows men are under a curse, rather than confirming they are being filled or will be filled as the Holy Spirit fades away.

Once a person defines the law..... the rest of the doctrine of tongues falls into its place assigned (believe God)

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that "believe", but to them that "believe not": but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corhitnas 14:21-22

What does the sign above confirm?

 

[wolfwint]

Evidence of Speaking in Tongues in the Early Church

Historical evidence of speaking in tongues in the early church from the writings of Eusebius, Irenaeus, Chrysostom of Constantinople, and Augustine of Hippo…
A.D. 33 - The day of Pentecost:
"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come they were all with one accord in one place... And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." ACTS 2:1-4
A.D. 41 - At Caesarea:
"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word... For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God." ACTS 10:44-46
A.D. 54 - At Ephesus:
"And it came to pass that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost... And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came upon them: and they spoke with tongues and prophesied." ACTS 19:1-6
A.D. - At Corinth:
"Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of Spiritual gifts, see that ye may excel to the edifying of the church... Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret... I thank my God that I (Paul) speak with tongues more than ye all."1 CORINTHIANS 14:12-18
A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says: "Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly embraced the true faith with their whole minds."
A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."
A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states: "Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.
A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days, he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman, another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."
A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."
"THIS IS THAT..."
"But Peter... lifted up his voice and said: This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; and it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh."ACTS 2:16-17
What is "this"? This is what happened in the upper room on that first Pentecostal Sunday:

1. The fire of God appeared.
2. The sound of God's Spirit was heard.
3. They were all filled.
4. They all spoke in tongues.

What is "that"? That, said Peter, is what has caused this - namely, the Spirit of God poured out as promised.
Not a word from the Old or New Testaments suggests that this outpouring would be limited to one day. Bible teaching is to the contrary:

1. The experience was for all (JOEL 2:28).
2. Tongues was to be the sign (See MARK 16:17; ISAIAH 28:11-12; 1 CORINTHIANS 14:21).
3. The experience was seen and heard (ACTS 2:33).
4. It was continued throughout all generations (ACTS 2:39).

Why "this" is "that"? This is that simply because the Holy Spirit was identified with the experience of tongues. Take this scriptural confirmation away and we indulge in guesswork of the most dangerous nature. Whether in the house of Cornelius (ACTS 10:44), or at Ephesus (ACTS 19), the lack of THIS would have frustrated the receiving of THAT - namely the wonderful and satisfying gift of the Holy Spirit, with tongues.





JPT

The church history stopped 400 ad?
Why do you not found refferences through the whole churchhistory?
You are fixing the events which are mentioned in acts togehter. For creating this doctrine. But this doctrine was not mentioned in any letter to the NT believers.

Otherwise we would not have this differences.
Please consider also that since around 160 ad the montanism movement began, a cult which claimed also the signgifts.

And again: Paul cleared in 1. Cor. 12, 30 not all got the gift of speaking in tongues.
How he can say this, if every Christian got it through the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

And why this is not taught in the letters to the church members? It seems according you the modt important thing for an Christian.
Even when he said we should be full with the Spirit. HE never connected this with the speaking in tongues as sign to be filled with Him.

 

[garee]

The church history stopped 400 ad?
Why do you not found refferences through the whole churchhistory?
You are fixing the events which are mentioned in acts togehter. For creating this doctrine. But this doctrine was not mentioned in any letter to the NT believers.

Otherwise we would not have this differences.
Please consider also that since around 160 ad the montanism movement began, a cult which claimed also the signgifts.

And again: Paul cleared in 1. Cor. 12, 30 not all got the gift of speaking in tongues.
How he can say es a Christhis, if every Christian got it through the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

And why this is not taught in the letters to the church members? It seems according you the modt important thing for an Christian.
Even when he said we should be full with the Spirit. HE never connected this with the speaking in tongues as sign to be filled with Him.

Perhaps falling back slain in the spirit will makeup for the ones who do not make a noise. Plenty of ways to get filled according to some.
Why cannot a Christian receive the tongue sign, after being slain in the spirit or some other what they call "sign gift?.. It seemed to be used after being poisoned . Should we all drink poison as evidence of being filled with the Spirit?

 

[cv5]

Why is praying in tongues necessary?

Romans 8:26-27 New International Version (NIV)
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

This common proof text does not say the Holy Spirit is praying in tongues unknown to the Human through the Human's mouth. A groan is not a human language and Acts 2 was plainly in Human Languages.

Acts 2
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

Speaking in tongues is never self motivated. Your question makes no sense.

 

[notuptome]

If you have received the Spirit, the Spirit witnesses with your spirit.



When a person gets the Holy Spirit there is evidence that is seen and heard.



Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33


He poured out this which you now see and hear.



Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, Acts 8:14-18



And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,



What did Simon see, when they received the Holy Spirit?





JPT

I'm sorry but you are adding to the word of God. Tongues are not evidence of a person coming to Christ. Receiving the Holy Spirit is the new birth in Christ by grace through faith.

At best and in context the appearance of tongues at Pentecost was an evidence of the of filling of born again believers with the Holy Spirit for power which was the promise as Christ was ascending into heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger