Why is praying in tongues necessary?

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,532
5,093
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#41
No are you? Did you study to see what the sign represents and confirms as proper exegesis ?

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto "this people"; and yet for all that will "they not hear me", saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to "them" that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22
Garee, I've asked you this before several times, and you have not given a straight answer: how does your view make sense in light of the events of Acts 10, where Cornelius and the others spoke in tongues by the Holy Spirit, and there were no unbelieving Jews present?

Since you have been unable or unwilling to provide a straight answer, I'll provide one: it doesn't. So you need to reconsider whether your view and modify it so that it is consistent with all Scripture.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
299
83
#42
Question.

How many of you flow in other gifts without having the gift of tongues?

Speaking of the vocal gifts. Or even any of the nine?
Tongues (a personal prayer language) is typically the gateway to the other manifestation gifts. It confirms the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,230
1,684
113
#43
1 Corinthians 14:5 (KJV)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

those who condemn speaking in tongues, let me ask you a question:
if you dont speak in tongues, do you prophesy? according to this verse it should be one or the other[/QUOTE
=================================================
OK Brother, not denying speaking in tongues, but, have u got some 'new prophesy'???
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,249
321
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#46
Five Different kinds of tongues
1)
Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)
In Scripture, I only see one gift of Tongues with Interpretation(I cor 14). Where do you see each of those, so I can check the context of each?
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,249
321
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#47
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know someone that went to mexico, and saw children in a warehouse(probably kids that were let out across the border years ago) and the kids were abused by drug parents...some parents would break the childs arns,....one had her eyes plucked out. …..he said, he didn't know how to speak Spanish, and knew the kids only knew the Spanish language, ...yet when he talked in English, they all knew what he said, ,...I think God will let their language be heard, even tho they are talking in their native tongue. this proved it.
………..that makes sense. how the people at Pentecost knew what they were saying in their own language.
That is known as Missionary Tongues, I have experienced that twice myself while in the Airforce. But, it does not prove that Roman 8 is referring to the Holy Spirit praying in tongues through a person. Communicating to a person in their language is not the same as praying with "through wordless groans" a "wordless groans" is not a human language.

To my knowledge there is no proof text for Missionary Tongues otherwise Pentecostal Missionary Schools would find people who have that ability to get them out on the mission fields.

For those unaware of what Missionary Tongues is. In both cases I was speaking with Muslims from Iran in their native language. To an observer it was noting more than a conversation in a foreign language., I was thinking in Hebrew at the time and speaking Arabic. In both cases they became Christians and were killed when they went home to Iran. This was under the Carter reign as President.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,249
321
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#48
In a related story on why not to depend on Missionary Tongues.

"
January 6, 2019January 23, 2017by Charles A. Sullivan
A pioneer missionary of the Azusa Street Revival in the early 1900s explains why his conferred supernatural gift of the Bengali language did not work upon arrival.
Surely, such a condition would threaten one’s theological opinions but not Mr. Garr’s. He believed that the gift had switched to another language while in voyage and Bengali never reappeared. He then side-stepped the issue and focused on other miraculous demonstrations.
This case is one of the earliest documented examples of the tongues crisis facing Azusa missionaries. Many traveled the world thinking they were endowed with a certain foreign language and upon arrival, did not. The resolution of this theological crisis became a foremost problem to solve.
The Pentecostal movement had a number of choices to address the issue, admit they were wrong, redefine, or ignore. Garr chose the third option, ignoring the theological crisis by giving a weak apologetic.
A high number of Pentecostals and Charismatics are surprised that such a crisis existed and remain skeptical about the above thesis. They want to see proof. So, the actual letter from Alfred Garr to a periodical named Confidence is digitized and presented below, untouched from the original on this very subject.
"https://charlesasullivan.com/8601/missionary-crisis-speaking-tongues/
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,249
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#49
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yes, I believe that, cause God knows we cant learn every language, he can do anything, and now I know that if the time came where we were in danger, we would hear any enemies in our language, God took care of the Israelites and he will protect us the same, he is the same then as now. he never changes...thank goodness
I was in NAM and no one heard them speaking our language in the Jungle.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,249
321
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#51
Proper ? Extra biblical as a oral tradition of men that kind of proper?

Fleshly experience is not spiritual authority as a law of faith. As it is written alone is. Why look to widen that authority as in have you experienced this or that? We walk by faith (the unseen eternal )

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and "worshipping of angels", intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly "puffed up" by his fleshly mind, Colossians 2

Its sort of like the idea of Five Different kinds of tongues as a oral tradition.... when all five represent the same work of one Spirit. . When in reality there a many different tongues as languages of many nations all under the tongue or word of God, prophecy of God.

Unity of the Spirit. Not unity of experience. We can learn that from the son of man Jesus's experience in Mathew 4. He did not give into the imaginations of His fleshly mind.

OK friend you still sound like you are on another planet.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,249
321
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#52
taking a bath isnt necessary but it sure make you feel good when you do. lol

why would you rip scripture from the bible and say "its not necessary?"
can we rip out John 3:16?

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Confused, is what one says while speaking in tongues considered to be scripture?
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,249
321
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#53
1 Corinthians 14:5 (KJV)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

those who condemn speaking in tongues, let me ask you a question:
if you dont speak in tongues, do you prophesy? according to this verse it should be one or the other
1 Corinthians 12:27-31 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
27 All of you together are the body of Christ. Each one of you is a part of that body. 28 And in the church God has given a place first to apostles, second to prophets, and third to teachers. Then God has given a place to those who do miracles, those who have gifts of healing, those who can help others, those who are able to lead, and those who can speak in different kinds of languages. 29 Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers. Not all do miracles. 30 Not all have gifts of healing. Not all speak in different kinds of languages. Not all interpret those languages. 31 Continue to give your attention to the spiritual gifts you consider to be the greatest. But now I want to point out a way of life that is even greater.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,249
321
83
#54
No are you? Did you study to see what the sign represents and confirms as proper exegesis ?

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto "this people"; and yet for all that will "they not hear me", saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to "them" that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22
I forgot that text, it shows that tongues are know human languages.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,249
321
83
#55
Garee, I've asked you this before several times, and you have not given a straight answer: how does your view make sense in light of the events of Acts 10, where Cornelius and the others spoke in tongues by the Holy Spirit, and there were no unbelieving Jews present?

Since you have been unable or unwilling to provide a straight answer, I'll provide one: it doesn't. So you need to reconsider whether your view and modify it so that it is consistent with all Scripture.
What is Gare's view since it does not make sense to me at all?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,254
978
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#57
I forgot that text, it shows that tongues are know human languages.
The law in respect to the tongues doctrine shows or confirms a person does not believe prophecy .The sign that shows someone does believe is that they are believers .The invisible confirmation of faith the amen.

The green and the purple in my last post should help keep the two separate confirming the difference..
In order for it to makes any spiritual sense a person must "mix faith" in what they do hear or see. ( No outward sign gifts). Signs follow prophecy .Prophecy is the gift of tongues.... God speaking in all the languages of the nations. Not in the respect of the flesh of one nation .That will not believe prophecy used as an example of unbelief, no faith in a God not seen..
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,249
321
83
#58
The law in respect to the tongues doctrine shows or confirms a person does not believe prophecy .The sign that shows someone does believe is that they are believers .The invisible confirmation of faith the amen.

The green and the purple in my last post should help keep the two separate confirming the difference..
In order for it to makes any spiritual sense a person must "mix faith" in what they do hear or see. ( No outward sign gifts). Signs follow prophecy .Prophecy is the gift of tongues.... God speaking in all the languages of the nations. Not in the respect of the flesh of one nation .That will not believe prophecy used as an example of unbelief, no faith in a God not seen..
Huh
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
299
83
#59
In Scripture, I only see one gift of Tongues with Interpretation(I cor 14). Where do you see each of those, so I can check the context of each?
These things are easier to understand from an experiential perspective, But...
The "gift" of tongues (prophetic prayer language) that you are referring to is #3 in the list below.
The personal prayer language (#1) would be what was received in Samaria, Ephesus and at the house of Cornelius.
Intercessory prayer language (#2) would be using your personal prayer language to intercede for others. (Rom.8:26-27)
Singing in the Spirit (#4) is from ! Cor.14:15.
The Evangelistic language (#5) you are familiar with from Acts chapter two.

Five Different kinds of tongues
1)
Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,752
3,295
113
#60
IMO, a little discernment and wisdom might have been helpful before starting yet another contentious thread on the same subject that is everyone's favorite argument around here

I guess folks like to argue about tongues cause everyone has one

good point on the other gifts

ain't nobody gonna bring that up with success

but everyone has the gift of teaching, right?

small print: if you do not know me or where I stand on these things, kindly do not assume