Why is the bible so open to interpretation?

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Nov 22, 2015
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#41
Amen....well said Cee.

Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

Jesus came to reveal the Father and His true nature to us as truth in the OT was progressive and in pictures and in shadows, but it ends with the revelation of Jesus Christ and what He has already done in His finished work.

So,
whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways
,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,


If we want to see the will of the Father - look at Jesus while He was on this earth.

If we want to see how our Father disciples us - look to see how Jesus disciplined His disciples

If we want to see the love and grace our Father has to us - look how Jesus interacted with the common people.
 
T

TonyJay

Guest
#42
Dear Peter:

If you want to really know what the Bible is saying the following principles are crucial:
1. Do not approach the Bible with preconceived ideas about what it will say. It is very easy to "make" the Bible teach atheism if that is one's desire, or Buddhism for that matter.
2. Reading one's own understanding into the Bible is termed eisegesis - it is the opposite of what we should be doing and that is called exegesis. Exegesis means taking out of the Bible what it is actually saying.
3. The process of exegesis can get rather complicated at times but mostly one can get the meaning as it is meant in all the commonly used English versions with some attention to detail. Ideally though, one has a good understanding of Koine Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew. However, just doing word studies is not good enough.
4. The common practice of posting single verses as justification of a particular point of view is rarely helpful. What develops then is sort of theological tennis match where posted verses are used to justify completely opposite theological views.
5. This brings us to another important hermeneutical principle - the Word of God does not contradict itself. One cannot interpret a single verse, or even passage of the Bible, without takin into consideration of what the rest of the Bible is saying. I say this with the greatest of respect - I have seen you of numerous occasions quote an isolated verse out of Romans to justify your position of salvation by works. However the whole book of Romans is the most thorough exposition of the doctrine of salvation by faith, and faith alone, in the Bible. No other individual so thoroughly spells this out as Paul does. So, knowing the overall purpose of Romans it is not hard to see the error in trying to make any part of Romans teach salvation by works.
6. Different Biblical writers have a slightly different emphasis in what they are trying to communicate. The book of James is not in contradiction to the teachings of Paul as outlined in Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians with regard to salvation by faith. One cannot interpret James when he is comparing faith and works in James 2 as teaching salvation by works. In fact one does not even need Pauls teachings to understand James is not teaching salvation by works. What James does say can be quite adequately understood within itself. The same goes for the letters of John - I have heard plenty people use verses out of those letters to justify a particular stance of salvation by works and that is that the only way to be saved is to be sinless - and to sin is to lose one's salvation. Again John is not contradicting Paul, and, Paul is not contradicting John.
6. One needs to understand that not everything in the Bible is meant to be interpreted as woodenly concrete. A good example is parables. Parables are just that - parables. They are not literal descriptions of actual events. They are however illustrations of bigger spiritual truths. They are meant to be somewhat cryptic - Jesus used them in order to communicate real spiritual truth in an indirect way at certain times to avoid direct conflict with the Jewish authorities and Roman rulers. When it suited his purposes he was brutally direct but He did not use parables in those instances.
7. Both Jesus and the Biblical writers make use of rhetorical questions, humour, irony, etc in their communications. Unless we recognise this we will be prone to missing the point.
8. A BIG mistake that is often made is to assume that every time a particular word is used in the Bible is that it must mean the same thing. Some people will assume that the word "oil" must be a reference to the Holy Spirit on every occasion it is used. However context tells one when this is so, and when it isn't.
9. It is also a big mistake to assume that a particular word in English always means the same thing in the original manuscripts. An easy example is the English word "love". In Koine greek there are four words used to express various dimensions of love. It is very easy to completely confuse oneself if one assumes that the word "love" in one's favourite English translation always refers to the same thing. This is a problem that has confronted all Biblical translations over the ages.
10. Buy good books on hermeneutics and Biblical exegesis.

These summary points are not exhaustive and good books on hermeneutics and biblical exegesis fill in the inevitable gaps very adequately.
 
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Jul 1, 2016
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#43
I was thinking that God could make His heart clearer, not have so many phrases that can
be taken a different way.

"Be perfect as the Father is perfect"
"Anything not of faith is sin"
"Believe in Jesus Christ and you will have eternal life"
"The law brings death but the spirit brings life"

Now all the above phrases can be taken more than one way. For some they are condemning
for others they are a statement of hope and freedom.

I begin to realise one recurring them. If love dwells in your heart, if you see freedom in the cross
service in your ministry, purity in your walk, there is only one real interpretation of these verses.

If you have a struggle of sin in your life, live in legalism and defeat, then these verses are not
freedom but bondage.

So your theology will be taken not on the words but what is happening in your life.
And so it will be on judgement day. The sheep to heaven the goats to destruction..

But the real point is until that time all will feel they have it right, because our hearts will always
justify where we are and why.

My only hope is to walk humbly before the Lord, with a clear conscience and pure heart, and
trust the love He has put in me. Then I will see the way through, from the depths of my soul
to the heights of heaven.

So Amen to you all, and I encourage you to find purity and holiness, and then, only then, will
we see God and ourselves with the clarity He promised.

I have not arrived, I still aspire to see more, and the more I see, the more there is still to
discover, Hallelujah.
It may not be as much interpretation as you think. Often times, Yeshua, Shaul, and the others in the N.T., are quoting phrases and terms from the Tanach. It takes a little digging, but it gives more clarity.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#44
Ok I understand where you are coming from. But lets take a look at Stephen in the NT. He didn't have any formal biblical training and he was preaching and lead by the spirit. "10 But they were no match for Stephen, who spoke with the great wisdom that the Spirit gave him."

I'm really not trying to argue with you about this just trying to get a grasp as to what you are saying. If God can give someone great wisdom through the HS then couldn't He do the same thing for someone reading scripture. I'm not down playing the schooling you have received, I just don't think it is necessary for a Christian to be a theologian to understand Scripture, or learn the original language it was written in.

But then again I would love to be able to read the bible in Greek and Hebrew :)
I have never said God can't teach us. And lead us! And guide us! Of course he can. As for Stephen I don't see anywhere in the Bible he says he was not educated. What it said was he was powerful in faith, and wisdom. (Act 6) So why could he not have studied the Bible extensively, in the Hebrew (yes he was a Greek speaker) educational system. His speak showed in depth knowledge of the Old Testament. Indeed, it seems more than likely he did go to Synagogue school, but perhaps he was taught by Greek rabbis, and memorized the Septuagint. He certainly knew the history of the Jews, and how to speak to the elders. AND he was indeed lead by the Holy Spirit in all things!

So don't put God in a box. Just because Stephan was great in wisdom and faith, does not exclude him "studying to show himself a worker approved!"

I think a lot of this myth of ONLY being led by the Holy Spirit, comes out of an ignorance of 1 century Judaic and Christian culture. This was not a primative tribe living in the jungle! (Although God can certainly use the Holy Spirit to reach these people!).

There was a cultural superiority that came out of German higher criticism. This is the criticism that challenged each word of the Bible and that the Bible was not inspired, just an interesting perspective on the Jewish people. It relegated God's people to little more than savages, that were "supposedly" led by a distant God. As for Jesus- well the Jesus Seminar came out of that movement. Just utter garbage.

Instead, you have a population of extremely educated people, most of whom spoke both Hebrew and Greek. The gospels cite Jesus and other people quoting from both versions of the OT - Hebrew and LXX. The boys knew how to read and write, they studied scripture under experts. They memorized the OT.

So in what way were they only led by the Holy Spirit. God used them, because of their knowledge, and their diligence in studying the Word under incredible teachers. True, some went farther than others in this study, Paul being a prime example. And so God used him even more!

And I never said you needed to read Greek and Hebrew to know and understand the Bible. But - DOCTRINE!! That is what I am talking about. Theology! Knowing how to read the Bible correctly. Knowing the verses in context of the rest of the Bible. Just look at the Reformation. Martin Luther had a doctor's degree in Theology and taught theology in Seminary. He was thoroughly read in both Hebrew and Greek. In fact, after he got saved and nailed his Thesis to the door in Wittenburg, one of the first things he did (besides leaving his religious order!) was translating an excellent version of the Bible from the Greek and Hebrew into German. He had spent years studying, and God was able to use him BECAUSE of his education and training. And he wrote theology! He turned the RCC church over, followed by Calvin and Zwingli and others.

So God uses people of great knowledge to his end - to reveal theology which is based on the Bible, and not on someone forming a doctrine or two out of a few assorted verses. And that is what is happening today.

We have a friend who came from Jamaica and never managed to get his education. His grammar is appalling. He was always coming up with some great revelation, based on his limited understanding of English. One time he came to me exclaiming a discovery, and it was all based on a bad understanding of antecedents in nouns, in run on sentences in English. I didn't' know Greek or Hebrew, but I did know English and English grammar and pretty much all of it was a mistake.

So fast forward to someone who I maybe does speak English well, but has not understanding of how to do interpretation. He loves God but he starts pulling verses out of context, and making his own doctrine. They next thing you know, he has a "following" and they are believing this "man of God. " So they form their own church.... And so on. You get the picture.

There are so many wonderful, godly people who have spent their lives studying under others. Reading theology, studying Greek and Hebrew. So why would God not choose to use them? Why would God not enlighten their understanding, and to bring things to light? How much better to use a worker who has truly studied and used Biblical hermeneutics AND is led by the Holy Spirit?

I studied the Bible on my own for 25 years. I read it over and over. I memorized and dug into passages. But I didn't learn anything compared to my extended part time 7 years study in Seminary. I do believe God was preparing my heart during the first 25 years, for the things he would use people AND the Holy Spirit to teach me.

And no, learning and the enlightenment by the Holy Spirit is never limited to scholars. We all have a part to play in sharing the gospel, our own walk with Christ. Every single Christian needs to be studying their Bible and reading and praying daily. But do the majority of us form doctrine? Nope! Do the majority of us influence many people with our original revelations that God gives us? Nope! But we still can study and grow as servants of God. And grow in wisdom. As much as Stephen? Well, the book of Acts was the birth of the church. Again, God chose the people he could truly make an impact with, especially since their lives would be forever written down in the Bible. So no, we will never be where Stephen was when that fatal day came and he became the first martyr in the church. And inspired many more with not only his wisdom, but his incredible character and love of God.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#45
It is a lazy man's hermeneutic to that think they need not study Scripture since His Spirit will reveal all things to him.

It's also carnal reason that thinks all the study of Scripture apart from His Spirit will automatically prepare them for ministry.
 
T

TonyJay

Guest
#46
It is a lazy man's hermeneutic to that think they need not study Scripture since His Spirit will reveal all things to him.

It's also carnal reason that thinks all the study of Scripture apart from His Spirit will automatically prepare them for ministry.
Nailed it!

And Angela's post is also a winner!
 
Jul 23, 2015
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#47
:8) as it is written
:read:
1 Pedro: 3. 10.
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: 11. Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. 12. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
.
. ...
15. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16. Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

:ty:

godbless us all always
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#48
Dear Peter:

If you want to really know what the Bible is saying the following principles are crucial:
1. Do not approach the Bible with preconceived ideas about what it will say. It is very easy to "make" the Bible teach atheism if that is one's desire, or Buddhism for that matter.
God gives a few simple guidelines to scripture

"Blessed are the pure in heart for they will see God"
"Take the plank out of your own eye before you take the speck out your brothers eye"

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
Luke 11:13

Scripture is a spiritual book, with the right spiritual approach it changes you, speaks to your heart, but without this how will you ever understand it.

This forum illustrates that the same verses speak very differently to people and they feel 100% justified in their positions while we all look at the same book.

One contributor once suggested reading the law was wrong and brought condemnation to him. I would suggest if any of scripture brings condemnation to your soul, you have issues that need resolving.

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Heb 4:12

But sadly people have so changed its meaning, they no longer respond to the very ministry of the word.

Some use lenses and condemn men of God as lost sinners who never resolved their walk with God.

This is why I am sceptical of interllectualism by itself, because the heart will justify itself and hide a multitude of sin while finding ways of justifying it through scripture. For me a simple clue is in being honest with oneself and life. The more complex ones theories the further from truth you have become.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#49

Jesus is perfect theology:
Let us put this in context, the wisdom of Grace7.

To Grace7 the sermon on the mount is legalism, sent to condemn the jews and
show them how far they fell short of Gods perfection.

It is not to be followed or used as the template of christian life. Yet this is what
Jesus says it 100% is.

So this is the most hypocritical statement I have ever read from this "spiritual teacher"

At this rate he will say living in sin is not a problem, just praise God and realise how
much God loves you, because you are still ok with God, even though you do not resolve
your issues or have any intention to do so, because that would be salvation by works,
which is obviously the worst sin on the planet, resolving a sinful life.

What a joke...
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#50
Am I harsh? You are 100% correct.

If a heretic comes and says, what Jesus preaches can be ignored, go after the world
and its desires that is Jesus's way, do you expect the followers of Jesus will just lie
down and die. No. They will proclaim the simple gospel, sinners repent and accept
the forgiveness through the cross and learn to walk after Jesus.

As in the story of pilgrims progress, it is a slow constant walk, of patience, grace, love
mercy and learning.

And their total disdain of me is nothing compared to their disdain of Christ.
What you do matters, what flows from your heart, getting a pure heart, walking righteously,
is the walk of Christ. This is how he walked, how he lived, his very breadth and souls
desire.

Yet the leaders of this heretical movement claim Jesus was rich, lusted after worldly things,
preached of superspiritual sonship, we are gods with creative command authority with our
words, and our futures are determined by how we speak. And this is the same faith?

And I should be ashamed at calling these hypocrites my enemies, liars and distorters from
the pit. They come like men dressed in white, yet condemn with vile accusations those who
would walk in righteousness before the Lord. Woe to these sinners, who by their lips deny
the walk of Jesus and His victory, for judgement of their souls is complete by their own
testimony, evil-doers.

And what is at stake. The very understanding of the door to the Kingdom of heaven, and
what Jesus means to the soul of man.

I cannot believe they ever really knew Christ, because instantly I know to deny the Lords
prayer is to deny Christ himself.

Tell me one line that does not speak to our hearts and needs today and for as long as we
shall live, Amen
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#51
Originally Posted by LaurenTM

yes? when do you think you might actually try doing that? I may not post all the time, but I can certainly read and I have to say you appear to post in order to castigate anyone that does not praise your interpretations as you put it

now this is an observation and hopefully you will be as generous with this one as you are with your own



It is an interesting observation. You will notice a small group who consistently feel it is their role to say I am wrong, their way is right.

Now because we have two different views of faith, it is always going to be
a to and fro discussion. But that is what happens when you have an open
forum. When people agree they mutually enhance the comments, when they
disagree it becomes a conflict.

And when you take sides, ofcourse the other side has no reason to respond
they are obviously wrong. So I got to laugh, this is not a neutral place.

well, you appear to have your own admirers whether you are right or wrong LOL!

birds of a feather I guess

tweet tweet


 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
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#52
Proverbs 1:5 helps a bit on 1:6

Proverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

Proverbs 1:6
To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

yes, wise people, people with understanding

I think some things in the Bible can only be grasped by wisdom
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#54
It is a lazy man's hermeneutic to that think they need not study Scripture since His Spirit will reveal all things to him.

It's also carnal reason that thinks all the study of Scripture apart from His Spirit will automatically prepare them for ministry.
Well said...it said I had to spread rep around first before giving it to you.....So I owe you one.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
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#55
It is a lazy man's hermeneutic to that think they need not study Scripture since His Spirit will reveal all things to him.

It's also carnal reason that thinks all the study of Scripture apart from His Spirit will automatically prepare them for ministry.
Oh but many people don't see what's at stake through your words. We need to study Scripture. And if anything is revealed to us, either through personal study or the leading of a teacher, it's the Holy Spirit leading us to that truth.

In order to study Scripture, one must have Scripture, the pure words of God without error. How can one get truth without the pure source of truth? "Sanctify through thy truth; thy word is truth." Where is this truth found? Where are the pure words of God without mixture?
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#56
I was thinking that God could make His heart clearer, not have so many phrases that can
be taken a different way.

"Be perfect as the Father is perfect"
"Anything not of faith is sin"
"Believe in Jesus Christ and you will have eternal life"
"The law brings death but the spirit brings life"

Now all the above phrases can be taken more than one way. For some they are condemning
for others they are a statement of hope and freedom.

I begin to realise one recurring them. If love dwells in your heart, if you see freedom in the cross
service in your ministry, purity in your walk, there is only one real interpretation of these verses.

If you have a struggle of sin in your life, live in legalism and defeat, then these verses are not
freedom but bondage.

So your theology will be taken not on the words but what is happening in your life.
And so it will be on judgement day. The sheep to heaven the goats to destruction..

But the real point is until that time all will feel they have it right, because our hearts will always
justify where we are and why.

My only hope is to walk humbly before the Lord, with a clear conscience and pure heart, and
trust the love He has put in me. Then I will see the way through, from the depths of my soul
to the heights of heaven.

So Amen to you all, and I encourage you to find purity and holiness, and then, only then, will
we see God and ourselves with the clarity He promised.

I have not arrived, I still aspire to see more, and the more I see, the more there is still to
discover, Hallelujah.
I think most of that is alleviated through deeper Bible study using some good Bible study tools. (I don't mean commentaries either).

The easiest way to get into a state of confusion of not being able to get a clear meaning from Scripture is by listening to too many doctrines from hirelings. Hirelings who just preach for hire aren't given to know and really understand the strong meat of God's Word, so they create many extra-curricular doctrines outside of Scripture to fill in the gaps. Our Lord Jesus showed us this in Mark 8:15-21 about the baskets of fragments they had gathered up.
 
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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#57
Interpretation is subject to translation. Then interpretation relies on context. Then interpretation is accomplished by comparing scripture with scripture. The old adage of scripture interprets scripture.

The bible says what the bible says. The problem is that men do not like what it says and endeavor to change it. Romans 1 touches on this matter.

Application is where things get interesting. There is only one correct interpretation of scripture but because Gods truth is so great there are many applications of the scriptures to the behavior of men.

How vast is Gods mercy and grace that God would send Christ to the cross of Calvary to redeem fallen mankind. When that great message moves from the head down into the heart everything else falls into place.

Line up your theology with the blood of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#59
Oh but many people don't see what's at stake through your words. We need to study Scripture. And if anything is revealed to us, either through personal study or the leading of a teacher, it's the Holy Spirit leading us to that truth.

In order to study Scripture, one must have Scripture, the pure words of God without error. How can one get truth without the pure source of truth? "Sanctify through thy truth; thy word is truth." Where is this truth found? Where are the pure words of God without mixture?

I'll step out on a limb here and say most likely only in heaven
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#60
When a person does not properly divide the Word they then take things out of context leading to misinterpretation.