Why is the end times so important?

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,688
8,227
113
#61
John writing on Patmos in 96AD would make John about 96 years old!! And he goes on to pastor at Ephesus after his release from Patmos? ROFLH So he writes to his 7 churches warning them about things that are going to happen centuries later? Yet John tells them in his opening that these things will SHORTLY take place. Since John wrote these either prior to or at 68AD then the events in 70AD were definitely SOON.

I post to you information, but I can not and will not debate this issue with you. Believe whatever you like.
Irenaeus (disciple of Polycarp, disciple of John) says.....after the destruction of Jerusalem (70AD).
Probably 95AD or thereabouts.

Good review here....

http://christopherscottblog.com/date-book-revelation/
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#62
Studying with blind eyes and deaf ears AND preconceived ideas, is why there is so much heresy/apostasy today and if the contents of these forums is any indication, getting worse.

As a baby Christian I had some preconceived notions, put there by well-meaning but false teaching, but when I tried to find scripture to back me up I found scripture instead that supported a view I had opposed. God's word cutting through with that great two edged sword. 'Course I had to read the bible IN CONYEXT, like starting at the first chapter of a book and reading all of it.
I agree. Context is everything. There is the easier context around the verses but the more difficult one is context with the rest of the scripture on that issue. That is why a systematic theology book is a great help. It goes issue by issue discussing it with all verses in the Bible associated with that issue. They are very big and expensive. I got on on Kindle but Kindle doesn't support a book where you use it as a reference resource.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#63
I agree. Context is everything. There is the easier context around the verses but the more difficult one is context with the rest of the scripture on that issue. That is why a systematic theology book is a great help. It goes issue by issue discussing it with all verses in the Bible associated with that issue. They are very big and expensive. I got on on Kindle but Kindle doesn't support a book where you use it as a reference resource.
So would Hodge pass your inspection?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,688
8,227
113
#64
Irenaeus (disciple of Polycarp, disciple of John) says.....after the destruction of Jerusalem (70AD).
Probably 95AD or thereabouts.

Good review here....

http://christopherscottblog.com/date-book-revelation/
Perhaps the best known source for the book of Revelation being written in AD 95 is Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (AD 120-202). It is important to note that Irenaeus was not a random guy with an interest in the Bible. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp, and Polycarp was a disciple of the apostle John! This means Irenaeus was one generation removed from the apostle John. Therefore, his comments and their weight are extremely important regarding the date of the book of Revelation. In Eusebius’ Ecclesiastical History he quotes Irenaeus who wrote, “But if it had been necessary to announce his name plainly at the present time, it would have been spoke by him who saw the apocalypse. For it was not seen long ago, but almost in our own time, at the end of the reign of Domitian.” This statement by Irenaeus is the clearest statement and earliest witness to the AD 95 date of the book of Revelation (Hitchcock, “Domitianic Date of Revelation,” 19).
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#65
The words of Paul are the words of Christ.....unless NOTED by Paul....to pit them against each other is not only stupid, but reeks of ignorance!



That is your opinion because you believe the message of Grace. I do not because I believe the specific words taught by Yeshua. He said He came to have Mercy upon all of us, as in, the Mercy of God. Yeshua stated: if you believe upon Him and trust that He is actually God, we are now part of Him. And then He furthered by saying, "Go and sin no more."

OK, so we have a guaranteed contract right here: Jesus said "IF I BELIEVE" 2 things...Him and that He is God I am saved. So, what does saved mean? To be in a condition required by God to be with God forever. So, if I believe upon Him and that He is God I am saved which is eternal salvation. WHERE DO I NEED GRACE AT? I already have the words of God making a deal with me and if I honor that deal I am guaranteed salvation and eternal life!! That means I DO NOT NEED PAUL'S GRACE message because I have a guarantee by Christ (God).

Clearly, the message of Grace is FALSE!!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#66
The end times are important for the welfare of the world.

The book of Revelation is a warning to the world to get right with God, for He is going to end this sin business on earth when the world rebels against Him, so they will not go along with the world when they stop the truth in favor of the occult, and evolution, and people can still evolve, when the nations come together.

And a revealing of Jesus to the world, and they shall know that God is true, and He is Jesus Christ.

God said He identifies Himself as the one true God by showing us the end from the beginning, which He showed us the history of mankind, and what is going on today, and said no other religion, or person, can do the same.

So prophesy is good for proving the God of the Bible is true, and God told us what is going on today.

The Bible says save some with compassion, and save some with fear, which it might put fear in the hearts of some people if the saints can show what God said is going to happen, and they were on the path to destruction by following the world, and so they can avoid it.

We know we are in the end time, because God tells us of the new age movement that has a false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and honoring the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, and the new age movement will be in the latter times, and the time will come the world will only want to hear the Bible according to their interpretation, and will lead all people that do not love God to the beast kingdom in Revelation 13 where God will then put the wicked down.

Daniel said that he did not understand what was told him concerning what would occur at the end time, and was told to go his way for he could not understand it, for the book is sealed unto the time of the end.

For many will run to and fro, advanced travel, and knowledge shall be increased, advanced technology, which the book is unsealed at the time of the end, which means the saints can understand the book of Daniel, and the end time, for the saints can see, hear, and know what is going on all around the world, and how it is possible for the nations to come together which they rebel against God.

The end times are important because it is a great witness to the world to show them the word of God is true, and God is true, and to let them know to get right with God so they do not get caught up in following the world.

Some people are skeptical of the Bible, and prophesy is a good witness to show them that God is true.

If we can show them the God of the Bible is true there is more of a chance they will believe in Jesus.

Nah 2:3 The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots shall be with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken.
Nah 2:4 The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings.

Automobiles at the end time.

Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

This appears to be jets, like birds flying, the 6th day war, 1967, when they took control of Jerusalem.

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

Isa 41:21 Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
Isa 41:22 Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.
Isa 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
Isa 41:24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.
Isa 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.
Isa 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.
Isa 41:27 The first shall say to Zion, Behold, behold them: and I will give to Jerusalem one that bringeth good tidings.
Isa 41:28 For I beheld, and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor, that, when I asked of them, could answer a word.
Isa 41:29 Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion.

God proves to us He is true, and we need to prove to people God is true by prophesy, and we probably have the best advantage using prophesy than at any other time in history.
The problem is some think they understand everything in Revelation. Theologians for centuries have studied the eschatologyical scripture and have come up with 4 distinct Biblical views on what they mean. Then every so often someone will try to claim he understands them perfectly. Then they feel hurt I don't believe them. I have studied them and what the theologians think for 50 years. At 74 been there done that with eschatologyical scripture. Seen to many trying to push erroneous views with their predictions be proven wrong. Now I just tell them they really don't understand.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,770
113
#67
So why does the Lord feel it so important that we, who are supposedly the final generation, should increase in our understanding about the end times?
It is not so much about *end times* but what happens AFTER the Second Coming of Christ, and the establishment of the New Heavens and the New Earth. The end times should really concern the unsaved.

But God has a glorious plan for the earth and the universe, for the Church as well as for redeemed and restored Israel + the saved nations that will surround Israel under Christ. Yet Christians rarely get to see this in perspective because of multiple false doctrines pertaining to the end times, such as Amillennialism, Replacement Theology, Dominion Theology, Ultra (or Hyper) Dispensationalism, etc.

For the children of God, the immediate concern should be preparation for the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church (called the Blessed Hope) which could even occur today.

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure (1 Jn 3:1-3)

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. (Titus 2:11-14)

This has always been imminent, but is much closer today because we are currently in the midst of the Great Apostasy. Purification includes separation from the Great Apostasy.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
#69
How can it be false when Christ is grace PERSONIFIED?
Amen.
Christ Jesus was God personified, Emmanuel "God with us".
Every verse in scripture that refers to the favor of God, pertains to God and his mercy. Jesus/God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Grace is not false. Those who have no faith in God's grace are not well studied. Grace of God
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
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#70
That is your opinion because you believe the message of Grace. I do not because I believe the specific words taught by Yeshua. He said He came to have Mercy upon all of us, as in, the Mercy of God. Yeshua stated: if you believe upon Him and trust that He is actually God, we are now part of Him. And then He furthered by saying, "Go and sin no more."

OK, so we have a guaranteed contract right here: Jesus said "IF I BELIEVE" 2 things...Him and that He is God I am saved. So, what does saved mean? To be in a condition required by God to be with God forever. So, if I believe upon Him and that He is God I am saved which is eternal salvation. WHERE DO I NEED GRACE AT? I already have the words of God making a deal with me and if I honor that deal I am guaranteed salvation and eternal life!! That means I DO NOT NEED PAUL'S GRACE message because I have a guarantee by Christ (God).

Clearly, the message of Grace is FALSE!!
Thanks for telling all you have no idea of the central theme of the bible...wow....you also know you just stated clearly of your ignorance right?
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#71
That is your opinion because you believe the message of Grace.
I also believe in His message of grace. It's throughout Scripture.

I do not because I believe the specific words taught by Yeshua. He said He came to have Mercy upon all of us, as in, the Mercy of God.
Really? Book, chapter and verse for the above. Where are these words you've put in Jesus' mouth?

OK, so we have a guaranteed contract right here: Jesus said "IF I BELIEVE" 2 things...Him and that He is God I am saved. So, what does saved mean? To be in a condition required by God to be with God forever. So, if I believe upon Him and that He is God I am saved which is eternal salvation. WHERE DO I NEED GRACE AT? I already have the words of God making a deal with me and if I honor that deal I am guaranteed salvation and eternal life!! That means I DO NOT NEED PAUL'S GRACE message because I have a guarantee by Christ (God).

Clearly, the message of Grace is FALSE!!
LOL!!!!!!!!! Not.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#72
Thanks for telling all you have no idea of the central theme of the bible...wow....you also know you just stated clearly of your ignorance right?
It's like this around here with these and their dime a dozen "gospels:"



There's something fishy with marinerscatch's "gospel."
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
113
#74
Don't pay attention to this poster ^

She believes Paul's words over the very words of God (Christ). We have clear examples of the Disciples, the Council led by the brother of Yeshua (James), Jude, the 4 Gospels ALL teaching Christ's message of the "Mercy of God." Only Paul teaches a different message which makes it clear the Disciples, the Council, and others never read Paul's letters. Had they did, they would have corrected Paul.

So far, everything she has posted seems heretical at best. Her hyper Grace is about as false of an antichrist message as it gets, and she refutes actual historian timelines, including the personal writings of Domitian who admits to tossing John into Patmos around 95 A.D. I don't know how she is able to keep spewing such garbage other than the couple others who believe as she does..
2 Peter- As also in all his (Paul) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
#75
That is your opinion because you believe the message of Grace. I do not because I believe the specific words taught by Yeshua. He said He came to have Mercy upon all of us, as in, the Mercy of God. Yeshua stated: if you believe upon Him and trust that He is actually God, we are now part of Him. And then He furthered by saying, "Go and sin no more."

OK, so we have a guaranteed contract right here: Jesus said "IF I BELIEVE" 2 things...Him and that He is God I am saved. So, what does saved mean? To be in a condition required by God to be with God forever. So, if I believe upon Him and that He is God I am saved which is eternal salvation. WHERE DO I NEED GRACE AT? I already have the words of God making a deal with me and if I honor that deal I am guaranteed salvation and eternal life!! That means I DO NOT NEED PAUL'S GRACE message because I have a guarantee by Christ (God).

Clearly, the message of Grace is FALSE!!
You miss the point;....by grace have you received the status of being forgiven and become a born again person.
 

VincentG

Prodigal son
Aug 25, 2018
1,757
922
113
#76
your kidding right...why are the end times so important??
 

VincentG

Prodigal son
Aug 25, 2018
1,757
922
113
#77
That is your opinion because you believe the message of Grace. I do not because I believe the specific words taught by Yeshua. He said He came to have Mercy upon all of us, as in, the Mercy of God. Yeshua stated: if you believe upon Him and trust that He is actually God, we are now part of Him. And then He furthered by saying, "Go and sin no more."

OK, so we have a guaranteed contract right here: Jesus said "IF I BELIEVE" 2 things...Him and that He is God I am saved. So, what does saved mean? To be in a condition required by God to be with God forever. So, if I believe upon Him and that He is God I am saved which is eternal salvation. WHERE DO I NEED GRACE AT? I already have the words of God making a deal with me and if I honor that deal I am guaranteed salvation and eternal life!! That means I DO NOT NEED PAUL'S GRACE message because I have a guarantee by Christ (God).

Clearly, the message of Grace is FALSE!!
if we sin we have the grace of God that covers us, not a license to sin..but if we do we are forgiven if we repent..because of what is more powerful than the blood of Jesus? Nothing.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,957
113
#78
It is not so much about *end times* but what happens AFTER the Second Coming of Christ, and the establishment of the New Heavens and the New Earth. The end times should really concern the unsaved.

But God has a glorious plan for the earth and the universe, for the Church as well as for redeemed and restored Israel + the saved nations that will surround Israel under Christ. Yet Christians rarely get to see this in perspective because of multiple false doctrines pertaining to the end times, such as Amillennialism, Replacement Theology, Dominion Theology, Ultra (or Hyper) Dispensationalism, etc.

For the children of God, the immediate concern should be preparation for the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church (called the Blessed Hope) which could even occur today.

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure (1 Jn 3:1-3)
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. (Titus 2:11-14)

This has always been imminent, but is much closer today because we are currently in the midst of the Great Apostasy. Purification includes separation from the Great Apostasy.
Nehemiah, we may disagree on the how and the when of end times, but we certainly agree on the "why?" You are the only person that has dealt with God's purpose and plan for humanity. And got it right!

However, you didn't need to attack people for their end times beliefs about timing. I am a partial preterist and amillennial, which I believe is the best interpretation. I think dispensationalism is the worst type of end times nonsense. BUT, I would not say they are heretics, bound for hell. Eschatology really is just a guess. No one is going to be left out of the kingdom of God for their guess about end times. It simply is not, and never will be, a salvic issue.

I think we do need to be aware of the "why" of end times, which is God's purpose and plan, culminating in the return of Christ, and living with him on the new earth. You certainly got that part right!

PS. Put "Great apostasy" into Biblegateway.com, and got no hits. Tried "failing away" and a few other alternatives, still nothing. Could you give me the addresses of the verse that talks of the Great Apostasy? From, the Bible, of course. Thanks!
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#79
It simply is not, and never will be, a salvic issue.
Really??????

Have a look at the Matt 24v45-25v13.

The "evil servant" and the "five foolish virgins" all loose their salvation!

Matt 24v50,51 states: "the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matt 25v12 states: "But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'"

There are more Scriptures in the Bible on the Second Coming than ALL other doctrines put together, especially on the period of the Great Tribulation, and the reason is simple, because the Church will be upon earth right through the last three and a half years of this age (the Great Tribulation) right up until He comes in great glory and power, every eye seeing Him.

Hence, Rev 4v1 to 20v3 covers these last seven years of this age, but especially the last three and a half in great detail (hence why the period of three and a half years is mentioned in 3 ways, 1260 days, 42 months and time, times and half a time), a time of great darkness, a time like never before has been experienced by the Church or unbeliever upon earth!

The Revelation of Jesus Christ only give a few verses to the Millennium in Rev chapter 20!
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
#80
One view of the beast standing in the Holy Place is in the third temple. The Israelies have excavated the place where the temple stood. It was exactly where the Torah said it was. On a high part of the kingdom of David. Just south of the Temple Mount. The Wailing Wall was part of Fort Antonio housing 6000 Roman soldiers and 4000 camp followers assisting the soldiers by cooking, setting up, tearing down and running errands. If you look at the scale model of the temple and Ft. Antonio it shows the temple taking up most of the area with Ft. Antonio in just a small corner. Ludicrous for 10,000 men to live in.

Second temple location - where was it built

Second Temple
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple

Destruction of the second temple
http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48944036.html?tab=y#
Let's say the Jews in Israel today were to erect a new temple in Jerusalem;...why would the Lord be concerned with a bunch of unbelievers listening to someone at a stone structure?

The temple of the Lord is within the faithful (see below).

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;