Why Joseph Prince is a Cancerous Growth within God's People

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

ladylynn

Guest
Hi Great questions!

First off we know that Christians struggle with their identity because Paul wrote extensively to Christians telling them over and over who they are in Christ. And he pointed to their behavior to show them that it wasn't matching up to them being in Christ. One time even going so far as to say, examine yourselves to see if you really are in Christ.

One Scripture that people love to quote is the one that says fornicators, liars, etc will not inherit the Kingdom, but very next verse Paul says, but that's not who you are... which is exactly what I am doing here. (Behavior => Identity).

As far as does it matter how we act. Yes of course it does. But there's a deeper level at play here. If we think we "have to" follow the things of God we still are discovering how good He is. As far as obeying my teaching that Jesus taught. Paul didn't detract from that. Like I've said grace empowers holiness. And in this case obedience.

The Kingdom of God is manifested on Earth when we obey the King. It's His Kingdom flowing through us from our obedience. It's His reign and rule.

Consider it like this, God loves a joyful giver. What is Paul saying here? True repentance comes from the heart. It's joyful. God doesn't want us to give because we "have to", but because we "want to". And while that seems like crazy talk to the natural mind, it's because it's supposed to be. We preach a supernatural Kingdom with a renewed mindset. It's NOT discerned by flesh. It's discerned by Spirit. And it's completely foolish to the wise.

One thing we must realize is that "principalities and powers" are watching us. God's character and nature is on exhibit for all to see. All of creation is waiting for the sons of God to be manifested. Why? Because we are made in His image.

The knowledge of His glory will cover the Earth. Notice it's not His glory, but the knowledge of His glory.
Moses interaction with God connects glory with His goodness. Moses asked to see His glory and God declared His goodness (not a peep about glory).

Knowing the goodness of God leads us into repentance. And it also reveals His glory.

C.





That was just a simply beautiful post Cee. Very much appreciate the insight God has obviously blessed you with. Do keep posting here on these threads. You are not here enough brother. ladylynn
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
There is a major part in this Christian life I am called to engage in when fighting the good fight of faith. That verse that says for believers to "reckon" ourselves dead unto sin and alive unto God.

We have to (reckon) it to be so.
To count; compute [reckon costs] 2. To regard as being ; consider as ..3.informal. To think or assume [I reckon I'll be there] 1.to make a calculation; figure 2. To rely (reckon on the kindness of others] ---reckon with. To come to terms or settle an account.

This sounds very much life faith to me. Believing it, relying it to be so and acting on that belief. I'm thinking of verses about the pulling down of strong holds. Forgive me if this was already said. Have been up for a long time tonight and read sooo many posts. Am reading 2 Cor.10:3-
for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but [SUP][a][/SUP]divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. [SUP]5 [/SUP]We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,


The walk of faith is supernatural and so anything that tries to derail us from walking that way and going another way is according to the flesh right?

So our weapons are not of the flesh. Faith is not of the flesh. (faith) is divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses that have long kept many of us captive.

And (faith) destroys speculations that our flesh sees with the eyes only. Are we called to destroy speculations? YES. Those things we see only with our eyes without faith are lofty things raised up against the knowledge of God. And the only way to take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ is to do it by faith.

And aren't we called to the obedience of faith?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
No, that's like saying

Carrots are orange.
Pumpkins are orange.​
Carrots are pumpkins.​



The first two statements are true, but the last statement is demonstrably not true.


When we read in the Scriptures that God is love, we understand that love is an intrinsic part of Who God is.

Intrinsic: Of or relating to the essential nature of a thing; inherent

God wouldn't be God without love, grace, truth, holiness, righteousness, etc. . . . they are inseparable from Him.

Again, no one is trying to deify Grace. The capitalization of Grace, Truth, Love, Righteousness, Forgiveness, Life, Gospel etc. is to signify that they are OF God, and not common or of man.

-JGIG
Amen, I would add, that God has PERFECT Love Grace Holiness Justice etc etc. Those things are part of the perfect essence of God. Seperate any of them from God. and he would not be God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The answer is in the way I asked the question.
But here, I'll answer it for you. God is not grace. He acts graciously towards fallen man on account of the atoning work of Christ.
The fallen angels received no grace from God because God chose not to provide a means of atonement for them.
If God=Grace then He would be under compulsion to save the angels giving them what they don't deserve due to His (grace) nature.
Btw, first century Greek had no capitals.
I must disagree. God does not have to forgive everyone to be perfect Grace, He is perfect grace because of what he did to mankind. Satan is the one who wants to humanize God. by saying he is not perfect love, he is not perfect Grace, he is not perfect Holiness.

Lets not buy into Satan's lie..

Gods perfect character must work in harmony, God is perfect love, But his love can not go against his justice, Justice demanded a payment for sin, And it must be carried out no matter how much or how perfect Gods love is.. God can not just say, I LOVE YOU so I will let you in even though you are guilty. (universalism teaches this) Justice must be carried out. But Love can find a way and perfect love did (the cross) that way Gods perfect Grace could redeem mankind to himself. But even then, Love is proven, by not forcing his grace on everyone, but allowing people to make a choice to recieve his gift, or reject it.

Gods character is so far and above our understanding, it may take a millennia of being in heaven seeing him as he is before we can comprehend it..
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,927
1,271
113
I have a problem with this declaration. In one interpretation sin is forgiven through faith in Jesus for everyone who puts faith in Jesus. Another is all sin is forgiven, dealt with for everyone, so sin is no longer an issue in the world.

The problem with the idea all sin is just forgiven, is this is a form of universalism.
i thought of that, as well, Peter.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
Comparison of opposites?

It says YOU ARE DEAD.

Therefore.

Mortify your members.

What are you talking about opposites? It really means you are dead to sin. It's not a joke. It's the truth. You're dead to sin. And the more you believe it (renew your mind) the more you'll see it.

Put off the old man.
Put on the new man.
This is renewing the mind. (Eph 3)

Why do you put off the old man? Cuz he's dead. Really.
Obviously the flesh with its longings isn't dead, otherwise there would be no imperative to put it to death. The flesh is dead in a judicial sense (dead in GOD's eyes), which is what allows the holy spirit to dwell within sinful beings through GOD's grace.

Mortify
G3499 νεκρόω nekroo (nek-roh'-o) v.
1. to deaden

This is another example of how hyper grace believers twist everything: i.e., put off the old man because he is dead. No, put off the old man so that he won't cause you to sin and thereby lead you to ruin. We have the power and ability to mortify the flesh now because the holy spirit is within and our advocate.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
Hi Great questions!

First off we know that Christians struggle with their identity because Paul wrote extensively to Christians telling them over and over who they are in Christ. And he pointed to their behavior to show them that it wasn't matching up to them being in Christ. One time even going so far as to say, examine yourselves to see if you really are in Christ.

One Scripture that people love to quote is the one that says fornicators, liars, etc will not inherit the Kingdom, but very next verse Paul says, but that's not who you are... which is exactly what I am doing here. (Behavior => Identity).

As far as does it matter how we act. Yes of course it does. But there's a deeper level at play here. If we think we "have to" follow the things of God we still are discovering how good He is. As far as obeying my teaching that Jesus taught. Paul didn't detract from that. Like I've said grace empowers holiness. And in this case obedience.

The Kingdom of God is manifested on Earth when we obey the King. It's His Kingdom flowing through us from our obedience. It's His reign and rule.

Consider it like this, God loves a joyful giver. What is Paul saying here? True repentance comes from the heart. It's joyful. God doesn't want us to give because we "have to", but because we "want to". And while that seems like crazy talk to the natural mind, it's because it's supposed to be. We preach a supernatural Kingdom with a renewed mindset. It's NOT discerned by flesh. It's discerned by Spirit. And it's completely foolish to the wise.

One thing we must realize is that "principalities and powers" are watching us. God's character and nature is on exhibit for all to see. All of creation is waiting for the sons of God to be manifested. Why? Because we are made in His image.

The knowledge of His glory will cover the Earth. Notice it's not His glory, but the knowledge of His glory.
Moses interaction with God connects glory with His goodness. Moses asked to see His glory and God declared His goodness (not a peep about glory).

Knowing the goodness of God leads us into repentance. And it also reveals His glory.

C.

If I could "like" this a hundred times I would..well said. Preaching and teaching the grace that is in Jesus who is in us now in our new creation in Christ will facilitate the exchanged life that is in us now because we are in Him.

I love this quote below which illustrates this and that grace is not a concept and people can just have a "mental assent " to the reality of Christ in us.

Quote:

This matters a great deal because the grace of Christ will not bear fruit in your life if you think it is merely a concept or a doctrine. As
Judah Smith said recently:

We shudder at the term grace because it has been so maligned, so abused, so misrepresented. We see grace as the get out of jail free card. “Oh yeah, I love me some grace man. I get my jiggy on in the weekend then I come back on Sunday and get me my grace on.” No, that’s not grace. You’ve met a concept, not a Person.”

I regularly encounter people who don’t know what grace is so they misuse it or they attack it. Just the other day someone wrote to tell me that too much preaching on grace leads to wrongdoing. That’s simply not possible when you have a proper understanding of grace. Grace no more leads to wrongdoing than love for your spouse will lead you to Ashley Madison.

 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
First off we know that Christians struggle with their identity because Paul wrote extensively to Christians telling them over and over who they are in Christ. And he pointed to their behavior to show them that it wasn't matching up to them being in Christ. One time even going so far as to say, examine yourselves to see if you really are in Christ.
Christians don't struggle with their identity, they struggle with the world, the flesh and sin.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Christians don't struggle with their identity, they struggle with the world, the flesh and sin.

They struggle with the world, the flesh and sin, BECAUSE they struggle with their identity.

If they did not struggle with their identity. They would not struggle with the rest.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
To say you post only what you agree with for Joseph Prince is like saying,
"I only posted the good parts of Mein Kampf."
"I only posted the good parts of Confucius."
"I only posted the good parts of Communist Manifesto."
"I only posted the good parts of Freud."
"I only posted the good parts of Buddha."
"I only posted the good parts of Margaret Sanger."
"I only buy Playboy for the articles!"

Rom. 12:1-2
1I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
Yeah, sort of like the word, "repent", I guess. There is the "repent" of the Bible that God did 28 times in that book, and then there is the "repent" we have turned it into. I suppose many people make Grace (grace) more than it might be, but then others seems to devalue it to the point that it was just God being a nice guy.
Are you devaluing repent too? Because I've seen none from you on this thread.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Identity can't save anyone.
Never said it could. Identity is who you are. Not what you want to become..

But it will change a life.. And has been doing so for centuries..

now, would you like to show me where I was wrong in my comments about how we struggle with the flesh and sin because we struggle with our identity? or is this all you have?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
No, that's like saying

Carrots are orange.
Pumpkins are orange.​
Carrots are pumpkins.​



The first two statements are true, but the last statement is demonstrably not true.


When we read in the Scriptures that God is love, we understand that love is an intrinsic part of Who God is.

Intrinsic: Of or relating to the essential nature of a thing; inherent

God wouldn't be God without love, grace, truth, holiness, righteousness, etc. . . . they are inseparable from Him.

Again, no one is trying to deify Grace. The capitalization of Grace, Truth, Love, Righteousness, Forgiveness, Life, Gospel etc. is to signify that they are OF God, and not common or of man.

-JGIG

Thank you JGIG!
....you said what I was unable to say but knew so well!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
honestly? i don't get the whole 'identity' biz. very confusing to my little mind.

i'd rather focus on the Lord. :)

When you focus on the lord. You are focusing on your identity, Because your focusing on being "in Christ"
and everythign that scripture says God has given to you. It is called setting your minds on the things above "Spiritual things which are eternal) and not on the things of this world (temporal things which have no eternal value)

at least thats they way I see it..
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,927
1,271
113
just a thought on repentance.

metánoia... literally a change of mind, yes.

it's when we change our thinking and agree with God about anything and everything.
including agreeing with God about our cosmic high treason... our sin.
we agree we have sinned!

let's not sweep it under the rug as 'covered', although it surely is forgiven!
short accounts, right?
confession of sin is part of agreeing with God that we have committed it, isn't it?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
I apologize....I didn't know that someone was not allowed to post again after they said they were done in a thread when they see some things being mis-represented after they have been posting. Please forgive me for this grievous affront on people.
I already suggested "the cure" for that. Stop saying it. And yet, you keep saying it. I am not put off by you returning. I am put off that so many of your posts end with the conclusion that there is no purpose in answering you because you won't be back.

I'm beginning to pick that up as a game for you. "I'll charge you with something, but don't want a response, so I say I'm leaving again."

It reminds me of my relationship with one of my brothers when we were little. I'd call him a queer while locking myself in the bathroom, so he couldn't hurt me. I always got in the last word that way.

And then we grew up and got past that. No more locked doors between us. Bonus points: I found out queer didn't mean odd to him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.