Why pastors and preachers should not be receiving salaries

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Nov 16, 2019
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#41
If you don't want to buy their books, then don't.
It's amazing how many people will buy books about the Bible and the Christian faith instead of just reading the Bible.
And I've come to the opinion that many write books for the purpose of making money.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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#43
1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

Jude 1:11
Now they are in for real trouble. They have followed Cain's example and have made the same mistake that Balaam did by caring only for money. They have also rebelled against God, just as Korah did. Because of all this, they will be destroyed.
None of what you quoted has any bearing on paying a pastor teacher....nothing but an idiotic vendetta with scriptures out of context!
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#44
Yes, this is true. The Apostles were called by Jesus personally(Except Matthias whom was chosen by lot). I don’t see how that applies to Pastors and Minsters and if they get a salary or not.
Paul wrote to Timothy, his successor in teaching the Gospel, with a very strict commandment:

1 Timothy 6:6-11
Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content. But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows. But you, Timothy, are a man of God; so run from all these evil things.

So who told you that it does not apply to modern day teachers of the Gospel? What is the Gospel's judgment against teachers, pastors, church elders who are greedy for money? Read for yourself:

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

Jude 1:11
Now they are in for real trouble. They have followed Cain's example and have made the same mistake that Balaam did by caring only for money. They have also rebelled against God, just as Korah did. Because of all this, they will be destroyed.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#45
No, I think a medium set salary is sufficient to address the issue.
Personally, I don't want anyone but my wife or daughter or son cooking for me.
Who said it was about cooking for you? Can't I buy rice and other necessities for you instead?
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#46
Well, yeah, it is, but it's just not an honest living.
Let's see then if God will agree with you, apparently He doesn't, because His apostle preached against gaining wealth:

1 Timothy 6:6-11
Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content. But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows. But you, Timothy, are a man of God; so run from all these evil things.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#47
None of what you quoted has any bearing on paying a pastor teacher....nothing but an idiotic vendetta with scriptures out of context!
Oh really? Apostle Paul preached contentment, which is exactly what I am saying in my thread. Don't listen to me, listen to what apostle Paul said:

1 Timothy 6:6-11
Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content. But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows. But you, Timothy, are a man of God; so run from all these evil things.

Paul told Timothy, a TEACHER of the Gospel, to flee from the pursuit of wealth!
 
Nov 16, 2019
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#48
Who said it was about cooking for you? Can't I buy rice and other necessities for you instead?
What if I don't like or want rice?
That's the point.
I'd rather you just give me a buck and I'll go buy my own groceries.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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#49
All of God’s priests, apostles and prophets were allowed to receive material goods from believers because they had the primary job of preaching the truth and the Gospel. Those material goods were received ONLY to satisfy their most basic needs like food, water, clothing and shelter.

But modern day constitutional Churches turned the job of preaching into an enterprise, and instead of receiving material things to satisfy only basic needs, pastors and teachers are getting rich from preaching while most of the hearers who give them money are poorer than them or live in poverty. The poor are ignored while the preachers get millions of income. This is against the very teachings of Jesus and His apostles. Even the apostle Paul supported his ministry through tent making, to set a good example.

Repent you leaders of the church.
Why do you judge someone’s reaping if you are unaware how much they have been sowing?
 
Nov 16, 2019
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#50
Let's see then if God will agree with you, apparently He doesn't, because His apostle preached against gaining wealth:

1 Timothy 6:6-11
Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content. But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows. But you, Timothy, are a man of God; so run from all these evil things.
The command of scripture is to 'give away your wealth', not 'don't produce it'.
I almost started a thread about that.

If a pastor has skills that he can market and which makes big bucks then good for him, as long as he isn't making merchandise of believers and is making whatever he's worth in an honorable and honest way. And when he makes the big bucks, he should do what the Bible says to do with it--give it away. But that's entirely between him and God. We should mind our own business as to how much a rich person is giving away and how much he is keeping for himself. He answers to God, not you and me. And God is able to make him stand.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#51
The command of scripture is to 'give away your wealth', not 'don't produce it'.
I almost started a thread about that.

If a pastor has skills that he can market and which makes big bucks then good for him, as long as he isn't making merchandise of believers and is making whatever he's worth in an honorable and honest way. And when he makes the big bucks, he should do what the Bible says to do with it--give it away. But that's entirely between him and God. We should mind our own business as to how much a rich person is giving away and how much he is keeping for himself. He answers to God, not you and me. And God is able to make him stand.
There is a difference between 1) actively pursuing wealth from a heart of greed and 2) gaining wealth from honest labor without setting their minds on being rich. I am against the first, NOT the second because Paul preached AGAINST the first.

This thread is to be read by teachers of the Gospel, and then for THEM to discern and search their own hearts whether they are doing what is right according to the teachings of Paul and other apostles.

By my own experience and observation, most people are NOT able to control their greed, even if they did not start with greed as their motive. Look at King Solomon, he was the wisest man that started out as a pious man who wanted to rule God's people well. What became of him? He became corrupted by wealth and women.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#52
Why do you judge someone’s reaping if you are unaware how much they have been sowing?
Why are people not judging their own hearts with the Scriptures I've quoted and instead want to say I'm judging people?
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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#53
Why are people not judging their own hearts with the Scriptures I've quoted and instead want to say I'm judging people?
Scripture stated that you reap plentifully if you sow plentifully
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#54
I have never been offered any money and as far as I know I have never accepted any money for serving God. Even if I were to clean the church or do maintenance work. I would not charge any money. Our rewards are to be in Heaven, not here on Earth. We should be well known by the people in Heaven. Our friends and family should see our rewards showing up there daily. When they go to visit our mansion in Heaven they should see new additions that were not there before. So they can witness the evidence of the work we are doing here on Earth. "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also" (Matthew6:19,20,21) Do people follow the teachings of the Bible? If they did they would not want paid here on the Earth. Not even paid in receiving honor from man.

"So when you give to the needy, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you" (Matthew6:2,3,4)

This one is difficult for me. I literally ask people: Don't you see what I have done for you? I may have just paid for the food they ate. Yet they will so no, you never did nothing for me. Because I did not actually cook the food and serve it to them. I just paid for it when we bought it from the store. So I have to remind myself that my giving is in secret and our reward is from God. Even at church I try to hide my giving so the pastor has no regard for me as someone that gives anything. Then you know who is in it for the money and who does not show any special consideration to the people who give and donate to the church.
Exactly what I am saying. Your heart is seen before God, whether you love money or you love God. Jesus said no one can serve two masters, no one can serve both God and mammon (material wealth). Keep persevering in obedience to the Gospel, brother.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#55
Scripture stated that you reap plentifully if you sow plentifully
The reaping has nothing to do with material wealth or money. Jesus said in Matthew 6:24:

You cannot serve both God and money.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
4,695
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#56
The reaping has nothing to do with material wealth or money. Jesus said in Matthew 6:24:

You cannot serve both God and money.
2 Cor 8 and 9 are about financial giving.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,061
19,966
113
#57
Oh really? Apostle Paul preached contentment, which is exactly what I am saying in my thread. Don't listen to me, listen to what apostle Paul said:

1 Timothy 6:6-11
Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content. But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows. But you, Timothy, are a man of God; so run from all these evil things.

Paul told Timothy, a TEACHER of the Gospel, to flee from the pursuit of wealth!
You must be as dense as lead....the context is the LOVE of money and WEALTH....Not being paid a fair salary for doing the job...wake up man.....your vendetta is skewing the word of God in your mind!
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
223
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#58
2 Cor 8 and 9 are about financial giving.
What do you not understand about Jesus' words: You cannot serve BOTH God and money? 2 Corinthians 8-9 is about believers helping out one another when there is any financial need, not about giving their money to pastors so pastors can become rich.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
223
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#59
You must be as dense as lead....the context is the LOVE of money and WEALTH....Not being paid a fair salary for doing the job...wake up man.....your vendetta is skewing the word of God in your mind!
You are as ignorant as unbelievers. I never said pastors should not be supported by the church, this entire thread is against the love of money. How is it fair salary when preachers are getting MILLIONS from preaching?

And what about people blaspheming the truth? Should teachers of the Gospel act in a way to give unbelievers a reason to reject the Gospel? No!

Pastors shouldn't be asking for money so unbelievers don't slander the Gospel and call Christians conmen because of them! Believers should help support pastors on their own out of their love, not because the Pastors asked for it!
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
4,695
783
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#60
What do you not understand about Jesus' words: You cannot serve BOTH God and money? 2 Corinthians 8-9 is about believers helping out one another when there is any financial need, not about giving their money to pastors so pastors can become rich.
How do you know the pastors did not become rich because God blessed them for their sowing? Do you know how much they give to others in need?