Why pastors and preachers should not be receiving salaries

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Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#61
How do you know the pastors did not become rich because God blessed them for their sowing? Do you know how much they give to others in need?
That is for them to determine and for God to convict. God knows what is in their hearts. Their actions and fruits, however, show to everyone whether they chase after riches or not. A pastor who has big mansions, private jets and live like a celebrity certainly loves money and not God. I can know that just by observing their lifestyles.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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#62
So you’re saying that God’s apostles were paid actual money for preaching the Gospel?
I didn’t read anything beyond that nonsense because that’s not what I said at all.
 

Aerials1978

Active member
Dec 10, 2019
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#63
Does gaining millions of income from preaching sound like making a LIVING to you? I do agree with pastors being supported by the church, but I would support them with ACTUAL MEALS and NECESSITIES rather than money. Because anything beyond meals and necessities makes them greedy.
There some that make millions I’m sure. That didn’t necessarily mean their all greedy. Again, that’s between them, God, and their congregations.
 

Aerials1978

Active member
Dec 10, 2019
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#64
Paul wrote to Timothy, his successor in teaching the Gospel, with a very strict commandment:

1 Timothy 6:6-11
Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content. But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows. But you, Timothy, are a man of God; so run from all these evil things.

So who told you that it does not apply to modern day teachers of the Gospel? What is the Gospel's judgment against teachers, pastors, church elders who are greedy for money? Read for yourself:

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

Jude 1:11
Now they are in for real trouble. They have followed Cain's example and have made the same mistake that Balaam did by caring only for money. They have also rebelled against God, just as Korah did. Because of all this, they will be destroyed.
You’re generalizing which is not the message of these passages. You’re pretty much saying the entire aggregate of preachers are guilty of this. Billy Graham’s net worth when he passed away was 25 million. Was he a wolf in sleeps clothing?
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#65
You’re generalizing which is not the message of these passages. You’re pretty much saying the entire aggregate of preachers are guilty of this. Billy Graham’s net worth when he passed away was 25 million. Was he a wolf in sleeps clothing?
I am not generalizing, I am raising a common trend that applies to many, if not most.

The Gospel is being blasphemed by unbelievers because they see Christian preachers as conmen who are out to get their money. If pastors never asked for money blasphemy and rejection of Gospel will not exist for this reason. If a pastor truly loves God, will he ask for money and cause the Gospel to be rejected by unbelievers because of his act of asking money? No, yet most pastors don't care about how their actions are affecting the public's perception of God's word.

Paul was willing to sacrifice most of his benefits as an apostle, even his right to receive support from the church and sold his own tents so he doesn't take too much from the church. His fervent love for God is blatantly obvious. None of the apostles ever had a net worth of 25 million, on the contrary, they paid with their lives to get the Gospel around the world. So did many of the early teachers that followed after the apostles' examples, ALL of them made some form of personal sacrifice (wealth, family, life etc) for God and the Gospel.

I don't know if he is a wolf in sheep's clothing, but I do wonder how Billy Graham (and those like him) can justify his immense wealth and say he truly loved God on judgment day, when he sacrificed absolutely NOTHING for Him.
 

Aerials1978

Active member
Dec 10, 2019
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#66
I am not generalizing, I am raising a common trend that applies to many, if not most.

The Gospel is being blasphemed by unbelievers because they see Christian preachers as conmen who are out to get their money. If pastors never asked for money blasphemy and rejection of Gospel will not exist for this reason. If a pastor truly loves God, will he ask for money and cause the Gospel to be rejected by unbelievers because of his act of asking money? No, yet most pastors don't care about how their actions are affecting the public's perception of God's word.

Paul was willing to sacrifice most of his benefits as an apostle, even his right to receive support from the church and sold his own tents so he doesn't take too much from the church. His fervent love for God is blatantly obvious. None of the apostles ever had a net worth of 25 million, on the contrary, they paid with their lives to get the Gospel around the world. So did many of the early teachers that followed after the apostles' examples, ALL of them made some form of personal sacrifice (wealth, family, life etc) for God and the Gospel.

I don't know if he is a wolf in sheep's clothing, but I do wonder how Billy Graham (and those like him) can justify his immense wealth and say he truly loved God on judgment day, when he sacrificed absolutely NOTHING for Him.
I’m not really understanding where this is all coming from. Were you part of a church that was involved in scams? You’re judging men’s intentions and hearts solely on the notion that they are marking a salary.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#67
I’m not really understanding where this is all coming from. Were you part of a church that was involved in scams? You’re judging men’s intentions and hearts solely on the notion that they are marking a salary.
No, I myself never got involved in a scam. But I have seen many examples around me of how pastors/church leaders who were paid salaries were in it for greed and taught damnable lies by manipulating Scriptures. There were two grave cases:

The first one happened in a mega church which my ex-classmate attended. The church leaders collected large amounts of funds from believers through regular salaries and tithes, and then misused the funds to grow their secular businesses. The church laity was totally unaware of it for years. Then the secular government came in and exposed the financial scandal, the media reported it and Christianity was shamed in front of the public.

The second one was even worse, and was a full blown cult. The cult leaders made their cult religion attractive by promising material wealth, access to sex, and power and status in the cult community for those who would fully commit themselves to furthering the cult. The cult leaders asked the believers for large sums of money which they used to make themselves rich as one of their many stringent and unreasonable religious requirements, then proceeded to teach them a twisted false gospel. Cult followers were required to follow every single teaching and practice imposed on them by the leaders, with no questions asked. The followers were so brainwashed and deceived that some eventually mutilated themselves physically based on a misconception of the teaching of Jesus which said "If your eyes offend you, pluck it out" etc. They also started separating from their unbelieving families by twisting Jesus' teaching of "if you do not hate your father, mother..." into literal hatred. They treated anyone outside of their cult as potential "devils". This twisted mindset led to them murdering people on the street for disagreeing with their doctrines. Again, it was the secular government which intervened after the murder happened and they discovered just how the cult leaders taught a series of damnable lies to control their followers. The ultimate aim of these cult leaders was to become rich by exploiting people with Christianity and external literature authored by them, they first drew followers in with material and worldly enticements and then finally controlled their followers' minds through cultist doctrines which relied on their own interpretations of the Bible. The government disclosed just how scandalous and immoral the lives of those leaders were. All these grossly details were reported in the media and Christianity had a very bad reputation in an entire country since then.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#68
Yes, I heard because I have atheists tell me that face to face. One said to my face Christians are all conmen and hypocrites because they keep asking for money in church gatherings. A church my friend went to was prosecuted by the government because their leaders were misusing church funds to support their entertainment businesses outside. Look at the luxurious and greedy lifestyles of those who preach false gospels of material wealth (prosperity gospel is just one to name a few). There were cults in my country which were in the name of Christ but the leaders were all about accumulating wealth for themselves secretly from the believers and then they taught believers to mutilate themselves and others. Go and read what evil is done for wealth among them who dare to call themselves preachers and it is clear why the true Gospel is being rejected and spurned and mocked.

You think I’m posting this as a generic rant? No, this is a post to convict the hearts of those who don’t preach with a pure heart and use the Word of God to prosper themselves. I don’t judge them but tons of Bible verses do, and such greedy preachers are condemned by the apostles.
Do you know what the cult in the name of Jesus in my country used to attract people to them? Material wealth, sex, power and status. The leader of that cult accumulated personal wealth in the millions, and people who followed the leader ended up mutilating themselves and killing people, all in the name of God. Woe to them.
Let's focus on two key statements:

"Look at the luxurious and greedy lifestyles of those who preach false gospels"
"Do you know what the cult in the name of Jesus... used to attract them? Material wealth, sex, power and status."

Why should anyone care about the lifestyles of those who preach a false gospel? Just identify them as preachers of false gospels (with evidence, not circular or circumstantial reasoning) and leave it at that.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#69
Let's focus on two key statements:

"Look at the luxurious and greedy lifestyles of those who preach false gospels"
"Do you know what the cult in the name of Jesus... used to attract them? Material wealth, sex, power and status."

Why should anyone care about the lifestyles of those who preach a false gospel? Just identify them as preachers of false gospels (with evidence, not circular or circumstantial reasoning) and leave it at that.
Because the devil will use wealth to lure in the most unaware preachers and then corrupt their doctrines over time. Not all false preachers started out preaching falsehood, wealth corrupted their doctrines.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
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#70
Wages in those days of the apostles are used to satisfy basic needs, not to give apostles an extravagant lifestyle. The very same apostle Paul who wrote the epistle to Timothy also wrote that “the love of money is the root of all evil”.
Being paid for doing a job is not the love of money, that's a false dichotomy.
It was to Timothy that Paul wrote the passage that I quoted to you, ending in "a worker is worth his wages."
You can continue contradict the words of scripture and twist them to fit your fleshly jealousies if you want, but I caution you that this approach to scripture is dangerous.

Ok I am now done with this foolishness. Please don't follow up with me with any non sequiturs, false dichotomies, or twisted scripture, or illogical conclusions.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#71
Because the devil will use wealth to lure in the most unaware preachers and then corrupt their doctrines over time. Not all false preachers started out preaching falsehood, wealth corrupted their doctrines.
Not all false preachers preach wealth-corrupted doctrines. Not all wealthy preachers preach false doctrine. Not all preachers of false doctrines are wealthy.

You're ranting at the wrong people. Identify the preachers whom you think are corrupted by wealth, and write to them. They aren't going to read your posts here.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#72
Being paid for doing a job is not the love of money, that's a false dichotomy.
It was to Timothy that Paul wrote the passage that I quoted to you, ending in "a worker is worth his wages."
You can continue contradict the words of scripture and twist them to fit your fleshly jealousies if you want, but I caution you that this approach to scripture is dangerous.

Ok I am now done with this foolishness. Please don't follow up with me with any non sequiturs, false dichotomies, or twisted scripture, or illogical conclusions.
Except preaching the Gospel was never meant to be a job per se in the secular sense, it is a sharing of free gift from God not to be used for profit of any sort and true preachers who love God will not burden people beyond what is necessary for their basic needs.

I am also done with this stubbornness of refusing to admit the deceitfulness of wealth. Whether one loves money or not is evident by what they do, and asking for money from people is but one action that shows a love for money. Tell a second person that asking for money does not mean you love money and see how they will react. Please don't reply me with strawman arguments either.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#73
Not all false preachers preach wealth-corrupted doctrines. Not all wealthy preachers preach false doctrine. Not all preachers of false doctrines are wealthy.

You're ranting at the wrong people. Identify the preachers whom you think are corrupted by wealth, and write to them. They aren't going to read your posts here.
Show me an example whereby a false preacher is not rich, I bet that is less than 1% of all false preachers. I am not ranting at anyone, anyone who reads this and loves God will either examine themselves and repent (if they are guilty of greed), or they will argue with me to justify their greed. There is no in between.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#74
Being paid for doing a job is not the love of money, that's a false dichotomy.
It was to Timothy that Paul wrote the passage that I quoted to you, ending in "a worker is worth his wages."
You can continue contradict the words of scripture and twist them to fit your fleshly jealousies if you want, but I caution you that this approach to scripture is dangerous.

Ok I am now done with this foolishness. Please don't follow up with me with any non sequiturs, false dichotomies, or twisted scripture, or illogical conclusions.
Oh, for that matter I am not jealous of anyone's riches. I myself saw how wealth corrupted people and it is the last thing on my mind to be LIKE THEM. I don't even value the same things as those who seek after riches value to begin with, they can keep their wealth for all I care. One day it will be them who will be jealous of those who truly loved God and received the best things from God Himself.
 

Enxu

Active member
Jan 13, 2020
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#75
Jesus said to His apostles when He sent them out to preach the good news:

Freely you have received, freely give.

It’s ludicrous then pastors today don’t bother following this principle set by their own Lord and turn preaching into a secular job. Then they say they don’t love money, but yet they ask for money from people in the pews. A logical contradiction they can’t see, obviously. May those who have ears to hear the truth hear, and be honest with God about WHY they preach the Gospel to begin with.
 

dodgingstones

Active member
Nov 20, 2019
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#76
All of God’s priests, apostles and prophets were allowed to receive material goods from believers because they had the primary job of preaching the truth and the Gospel. Those material goods were received ONLY to satisfy their most basic needs like food, water, clothing and shelter.

But modern day constitutional Churches turned the job of preaching into an enterprise, and instead of receiving material things to satisfy only basic needs, pastors and teachers are getting rich from preaching while most of the hearers who give them money are poorer than them or live in poverty. The poor are ignored while the preachers get millions of income. This is against the very teachings of Jesus and His apostles. Even the apostle Paul supported his ministry through tent making, to set a good example.

Repent you leaders of the church.
Bull hockey
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#77
Show me an example whereby a false preacher is not rich, I bet that is less than 1% of all false preachers.
Fallacy: burden of proof reversal. You made the initial assertion; it's up to you to prove it.

I am not ranting at anyone, anyone who reads this and loves God will either examine themselves and repent (if they are guilty of greed), or they will argue with me to justify their greed. There is no in between.
Fallacy: false dichotomy. Actually, two of them.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#78
What does "Double Honor" mean? Sounds like the preacher should get about twice what the average wage is... for his preaching, alone.
Provided he labors in the Word and doctrine.

However, the OP is addressing the issue of preachers getting wealthy off preaching, without necessarily doing what they are called to do, and going well beyond double honor. He makes a good point.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#79
Jesus said to His apostles when He sent them out to preach the good news:

Freely you have received, freely give.

It’s ludicrous then pastors today don’t bother following this principle set by their own Lord and turn preaching into a secular job. Then they say they don’t love money, but yet they ask for money from people in the pews. A logical contradiction they can’t see, obviously. May those who have ears to hear the truth hear, and be honest with God about WHY they preach the Gospel to begin with.
Even if preachers in past generations turned preaching into a job, it is not a secular job.

Congregations turned preaching into a job by demanding that a single person do the bulk of it (which is not scripturally sound) and by directing funds to pay the preacher instead of providing directly for the preacher's needs (about which Scripture says nothing). A preacher asking for money for covering church expenses is perfectly reasonable, though it is better that the asking be done by another elder.

Paul waived his right to be supported by the congregations he taught. Consider that statement carefully; he had the right to be supported by them! So do modern preachers; it is biblically sound for one who preaches the gospel to make a living from the gospel.

The logical contradiction is yours; you reject the idea that people who work should be supported through that work. Do YOU work for free?
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
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#80
Oh, for that matter I am not jealous of anyone's riches. I myself saw how wealth corrupted people and it is the last thing on my mind to be LIKE THEM. I don't even value the same things as those who seek after riches value to begin with, they can keep their wealth for all I care. One day it will be them who will be jealous of those who truly loved God and received the best things from God Himself.
Don't get upset at me because your flesh is riled up against scripture, and I was honest with you about it. Maybe you should confess it so that the Lord will forgive it. repent.
what Paul wrote to Timothy in his first letter, about how to operate the church is scripture. And he said pay those who diligently work in the ministry, preaching and teaching.