Why War in Heaven?

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Nick1939

Guest
#1
#1
It is interesting for 4000 years in the old testament, from Adam and Eve to Christ, we were not told of any war in heaven. But in Revelation 12:7-9 we see that Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon and his angels. As we know, the Dragon did not prevail, but was cast to the earth. So now we ask the question: why was there a war in heaven? Is that event past, present, or future? Can we pin point exactly when, or what period, that event took place. Revelation 12:1-17 reveals these answers clear as a bell.

For starters, the war in heaven in (Revelation 12:10) one who accused the brethren before God day and night, might have a good reason why he was accused since Jesus exposed him in John 8:44 calling him the "father of lies" and "murderer". In 1 John 3:8 that Jesus was sent to destroy the works of the devil. And in Hebrews 2:14 who had the power of sin and death whom Jesus did overcome and Jesus now has the power over life and death. Therefor in light of the above mentioned scriptures there is good reason for war to start in heaven. Accuse and being accused.

Secondly, common sense would agree with the following scriptures: when Jesus was accused that he expelled demons by Beelzebub and exposed Satan and his divided kingdom and has an end Mark 3:22-26. And that Jesus mobilized the disciples against all power of the enemy Luke 10:19 and Mathew 10:8. Then we know at that time that Satan could complain to God about Jesus and his disciples exposing his secret operation. The following verses collaborate this point of view: Luke 10:17-19. Jesus saw him as lightning fallen from heaven John 12:31. Now is the judgment of this world. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out John 16:11 the prince of this world is judged. And 2 Corinthians 4:4 in whom the God of this age have blind the minds of them that believe not. Who is the prince and God of this world? I'm sure you all know it is Satan. So now we know why the war took place in heaven and when. Logically and scripturally at the time Jesus was on earth.

He who has ears to hear let him hear. God Bless.
 
N

Nicee

Guest
#2
#2
To simplify it God knew the war will happen. FREEDOM OF CHOICE was very important to him. He knew Lucifer had a problem with being a servant. He dont blame him that much but he wanted Lucifer to talk to him about it but he didnt.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#3
#3
Nicee said:
To simplify it God knew the war will happen. FREEDOM OF CHOICE was very important to him. He knew Lucifer had a problem with being a servant. He dont blame him that much but he wanted Lucifer to talk to him about it but he didnt.
Click to expand...
I agree with the first point of your post, not so much with the second point (in bold).
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#4
#4
Nicee said:
To simplify it God knew the war will happen. FREEDOM OF CHOICE was very important to him. He knew Lucifer had a problem with being a servant. He dont blame him that much but he wanted Lucifer to talk to him about it but he didnt.
Click to expand...
:confused::confused:
 
N

Nicee

Guest
#5
#5
Tintin said:
I agree with the first point of your post, not so much with the second point (in bold).
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Unlike us. Angels were created as Servants. They all have job to do. Lucifer didnt want to be a servant but a King a God. God knew that. Lucifer had a choice-- talk to God about it or rebel. So he chose to rebel.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#6
#6
Nicee said:
Unlike us. Angels were created as Servants. They all have job to do. Lucifer didnt want to be a servant but a King a God. God knew that. Lucifer had a choice-- talk to God about it or rebel. So he chose to rebel.
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I understand that angels were created to be servants but we are also called to be servants. I understand that Lucifer didn't want to serve under God, he wanted to be God. Lucifer had a choice but making nice with God had nothing to do with it. That's just fluffy talk and rather silly. This isn't some toddler squabble. This is the One True God versus one of His high-ranking messengers. The stakes were high, God who is holiness incarnate can't abide sin. So Lucifer and his 'army' had to go.
 
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D

dalconn

Guest
#7
#7
DANIEL 10:12
then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the visionrefers to many days yet to come.”


There is indication of heavenly battles when Gabriel the Arch angel tried to answer Daniels prayer

 
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ELECT

Guest
#8
#8
Nicee said:
Unlike us. Angels were created as Servants. They all have job to do. Lucifer didnt want to be a servant but a King a God. God knew that. Lucifer had a choice-- talk to God about it or rebel. So he chose to rebel.
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I thought we were gods ?
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#10
#10
ELECT said:
I thought we were gods ?
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We're children of God, made holy by His righteousness but not gods in the traditional understanding of the word.
 
M

MidniteWelder

Guest
#11
#11
ELECT said:
I thought we were gods ?
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Psalm 82:6
"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Are you sure that within the translation it didn't mean:
Gods' ...indicating ownership, us being in Gods possession
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#12
#12
dalconn said:
DANIEL 10:12
then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the visionrefers to many days yet to come.”


There is indication of heavenly battles when Gabriel the Arch angel tried to answer Daniels prayer
Click to expand...
Yes, and there are references to the war in Heaven in Isaiah 14:12-15:

How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.

and in Ezekiel 28:12-17 (naturally God's speech is to the King of Tyre and the one who possesses him):

“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#13
#13
Did the war take place in heaven first and then the devil went into the garden ?

or

Did the devil cause sin in the garden first and then went to return to heaven and there was war ?
 
S

Straightshot

Banned
#14
Nov 3, 2014
1,045
5
0
#14
my comment to the OP

The cosmic war between the Lord, and Satan and his rebelling angels .... this has been going on for eons since the beginning of creation
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#15
#15
ELECT said:
Did the war take place in heaven first and then the devil went into the garden ?

or

Did the devil cause sin in the garden first and then went to return to heaven and there was war ?
Click to expand...
Biblical inferences point to your first example as being the correct one.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#16
#16
Tintin said:
Biblical inferences point to your first example as being the correct one.
Click to expand...
If that the case why did God allow Him in the garden ?
 
Seifer5

Seifer5

Banned
#17
Oct 15, 2014
149
1
0
#17
I'm just going to respond to the title, not the post; so to keep this simple.

Following the order of events given in Revelation 12, if you allow it to teach what it says as is, then there will be, war in heaven, and Satan will be, cast to this earth to deceive the world, visibly, in the sight of, all people for that purpose as Micheal says. There's No need to interpret anything when this is the Revelation of Christ, and your getting the warning right from Michael 's mouth. (( 2 Peter 1:20 ))

I wouldn't mess with with an archangels warning. Remember what happened to Zechariah
when he questioned Gabriel ?


So its a future event, and Christ and Paul, and all of God's words teach this. We have a choice, we can listen to the warning on how to avoid the temptation, by not finding him tempting. Or go into his captivity; to that deception when it happens in the very near future; like believing in rapture, and other non-Biblical teachings of people.
 
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E

ELECT

Guest
#18
#18
I'm just going to respond to the title, not the post; so to keep this simple.

Following the order of events given in Revelation 12, if you allow it to teach what it says as is, then there will be, war in heaven, and Satan will be, cast to this earth to deceive the world, visibly, in the sight of, all people for that purpose as Micheal says. There's no need to interpret anything when this is the Revelation of Christ, and your getting the warning right from Michael 's mouth.

I wouldn't mess with with an archangels warning. Remember what happened to Zechariah

when he questioned Gabriel ?
Seifer5 said:
:confused::confused: what future event ? are you saying the devil has acess to the heavens?
Click to expand...
 
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E

ELECT

Guest
#19
#19
Seifer5 said:
I'm just going to respond to the title, not the post; so to keep this simple.

Following the order of events given in Revelation 12, if you allow it to teach what it says as is, then there will be, war in heaven, and Satan will be, cast to this earth to deceive the world, visibly, in the sight of, all people for that purpose as Micheal says. There's No need to interpret anything when this is the Revelation of Christ, and your getting the warning right from Michael 's mouth. (( 2 Peter 1:20 ))

I wouldn't mess with with an archangels warning. Remember what happened to Zechariah
when he questioned Gabriel ?


So its a future event, and Christ and Paul, and all of God's words teach this. We have a choice, we can listen to the warning on how to avoid the temptation, by not finding him tempting. Or go into his captivity; to that deception when it happens in the very near future; like believing in rapture, and other non-Biblical teachings of people.
Click to expand...
:confused::confused: what future event ? are you saying the devil has acess to the heavens?
 
Seifer5

Seifer5

Banned
#20
Oct 15, 2014
149
1
0
#20
Read 2 Peter 1:20. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, says he is in heaven being held there by Micheal. That will be the last I respond to that. Read it and believe Christ's report by Micheal if you believe Christ's words without question.. If not , then all there is , is to always wonder .

If you want to talk more about this, I'll chat some in a audio room with voice. I cant be checking the forums and refreshing the page to talk about this .
 
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