Why Wasn't A Law Given By Which One Could Be Righteous?

[evyaniy]

just asking because whoever is praying Psalm 119 is someone praying to receive salvation.

May your unfailing love come to me, Lord,​

your salvation, according to your promise​

(Psalm 119:41)​

​

My soul faints with longing for your salvation,​

but I have put my hope in your word.​

(Psalm 119:81)​

​

My eyes fail, looking for your salvation,​

looking for your righteous promise.​

(Psalm 119:123)​

​

I call out to you; save me​

and I will keep your statutes.​

(Psalm 119:146)​

​

Defend my cause and redeem me;​

preserve my life according to your promise.​

(Psalm 119:154)​

​

I wait for your salvation, Lord,​

and I follow your commands.​

(Psalm 119:166)​

​

I long for your salvation, Lord,​

and your law gives me delight.​

(Psalm 119:174)​

​

​

i mean, that's obvious, reading it, isn't it?
so obvious question -- what is salvation? we know that one, right? of course we do! we're Christians! salvation is our bread and butter; we are experts among people. in fact i probably don't even have to explain.
but one thing let's mention - what kind of person needs salvation?
someone who has sin, right? they need to be saved from the damnation they incur against a holy God.

I have strayed like a lost sheep.​

Seek your servant,​

for I have not forgotten your commands.​

(Psalm 119:176)​

​

that's an interesting word, 'strayed' -- kinda like the people wandering in the wilderness who were supposed to be on the path to the promised land. lost, needing to be rescued and redeemed.
that's one word that's translated 'strayed' in this song; taah -- i don't know Hebrew but the dictionary says it means to err, deceive/mislead, be deceived/misled or wander (from the right way). whoever is praying Psalm 119, they close the song with this statement. that they are deceived, that they stray from the path, that they do wrong.

interestingly there's another word translated as 'stray' in Psalm 119

Before I was afflicted I went astray:​

but now have I kept thy word.​

(Psalm 119:67)​

​

this word is shagag -- again, i don't know Hebrew, but that's the same word here, in the Law:

And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. ​

(Numbers 15:27-28)​

​

so whoever is praying Psalm 119 is guilty of sinning in ignorance. in the context of the song, now we know what he or she means by "afflicted" - having received the commands - which is great, because it brings us back to the OP subject: why was this law given which cannot impart life or righteousness? is it the psalmists's faith in God that is rewarded with life or is the atoning sacrifice a priest made for the psalmist to atone for his sins in ignorance before he received the law?


you think that's overthinking it?
maybe. but i think i'd rather overthink than under
so, thanks!

Many times in Psalm 119 He said He kept the Law and statutes and stated His innocence. He also said the law was His delight over and over. He took an oath and confirmed it to obey the law in the passage i pointed out earlier.

His pleas for life was on the basis of the promise in the Law and His obedience. He still needed to be saved from His sacrificial death that He suffered to save us. It had not happened yet and His faith was in the promise of life in the law. He asked for Life and was raised so He could continue to praise His Father.

 

[evyaniy]

Psalm 21 is the Holy Spirit speaking to the Father about Yahshua in verses 1 through 7. He says that YAH gave Yahshua His heart's desire which is life. That explains the multiple pleas for Life in Psalm 119 by the Man Who fully kept the law by giving His life for us. His Father heard His prayers and raised Him from the dead according to the promise of Life in the Law.

Paslm 21:1-7
1 The King shall joy in Thy strength, O YHVH; and in Thy salvation how greatly shall He rejoice! 2 Thou hast given Him His heart's desire, and hast not withholden the request of His lips. Selah. 3 For Thou has met Him with the blessings of goodness: Thou settest a crown of pure gold on His head. 4 He asked life of Thee, and thou gavest it Him, even length of days for ever and ever. 5 His glory is great in Thy Salvation: honour and majesty hast Thou laid upon Him. 6 For Thou hast made Him most blessed for ever: thou hast made Him exceeding glad with Thy countenance. 7 For the King trusteth in YHVH, and through the mercy of the most High He shall not be moved.

 

[posthuman]

Look what this section teaches us if we accept it is Yahshua praying. He asks His Father to give Him understanding. He asks to be delivered. He acknowledges teaches Him His statutes. He asks for help. The Law is His delight. He asks for life so He may praise YAH. When He suffered for our sins He was like a lost sheep. He asked YAH to seek Him because He did not forget His commandments. He was pleading His obedience to be saved.

a lost sheep pleading for salvation is pleading for mercy

 

[oldethennew]

He had NO DEBT, therefore He was required to PAY NOTHING -
as it is written:
ROMANS 6:23,
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Christ DIED for OUR 'sins', not His, because He had NONE -
therefore, DEATH had NO power over Him...

 

[posthuman]

Did Jesus have an age of accountability like the rest of us humans?

"The virgin d will conceive and give birth to a son, and e will call him Immanuel. f 15He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right " - Isaiah 7:15

I don't know. I'm just asking.

Butter and honey He doth eat, when He knoweth to refuse evil, and to fix on good. ​

(Isaiah 7:15) ​

​

honey was given to newborns.

 

[evyaniy]

a lost sheep pleading for salvation is pleading for mercy

yes, .....a Man of sorrows, acquainted with grief.....

Isaiah 53:4-12

Surely He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of Elohiym, and afflicted

But He was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and YHVH hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare His generation? for He was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of My people was He stricken.

And He made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; because He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in His mouth.

Yet it pleased YHVH to bruise Him; He hath put Him to grief: when thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of YHVH shall prosper in His hand.

He shall see of the travail of His soul, and shall be satisfied: by His knowledge shall My righteous Servant justify many; for He shall bear their iniquities.

Therefore will I divide Him a portion with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong; because He hath poured out His soul unto death: and He was numbered with the transgressors; and He bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The perfect Lamb of YAH

 

[stonesoffire]

Psalm 119 speaks of meditating on what is written. The law does show sin to the one meditating, but when mixed with faith in grace through sacrificial blood, it changes the soul. Not heart...soul of man. The thinking.

There has always been grace. But, it’s two different types. The first is God bending down in kindness to man or the Superior being to the inferior.

Grace through Jesus Christ is the inward work of Holy Spirit creating Sons in His image. Perfect in position but soul needing to become one with Spirit.

And this all has to be in His perfect timing.

 

[posthuman]

yes, .....a Man of sorrows, acquainted with grief.....

when He weeps over Jerusalem it's for their sins, not His. He does not err.



as at arriving to raise Lazarus, where He declares He is the Resurrection and the Life. He's not weeping for Himself, but for us.

 

[posthuman]

One simple question. Was Psalm 119 Yahshua praying?

perhaps it is Moses

 

[evyaniy]

perhaps it is Moses

It is Yahshua. In the volume of the book it is written of Him. He came to do YAH's will.

 

[Judges1318]

um, don't know if you read the title of the thread you're replying to, but 'looking at it that way' is exactly the topic.
in fact, you say "it has more than one function" -- well friend, you're "looking at it that way" -- because "that way" you're telling me not to look is to ask what is the function of the law. so why are you talking about the function of the law if one shouldn't think about the function of the law?

Stop looking at who the law was given to.
It drives me crazy when Christians talk about the law not being given to them as if it's completely alien to Christianity.
It has a function. More than one even. Examine that, not who it belongs to.

 

[Judges1318]

is a person who agonizes for themselves engaged in trusting God or in doubting God while they do so?

Trusting God, or not, the cross was agony to Christ, just as it would be to anybody.

"For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners (at the cross), so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood (Christ did)." - Hebrews 12:2-4

For the sake of your argument, it looks like because he was trusting God the cross was agony to Him. He resisted the temptation to cut and run and take revenge on those who were hurting him to the point of shedding his blood. His obedience to God is what made the cross agony to Him.

 

[Judges1318]

just asking because whoever is praying Psalm 119 is someone praying to receive salvation.

May your unfailing love come to me, Lord,​

your salvation, according to your promise​

(Psalm 119:41)​

​

My soul faints with longing for your salvation,​

but I have put my hope in your word.​

(Psalm 119:81)​

​

My eyes fail, looking for your salvation,​

looking for your righteous promise.​

(Psalm 119:123)​

​

I call out to you; save me​

and I will keep your statutes.​

(Psalm 119:146)​

​

Defend my cause and redeem me;​

preserve my life according to your promise.​

(Psalm 119:154)​

​

I wait for your salvation, Lord,​

and I follow your commands.​

(Psalm 119:166)​

​

I long for your salvation, Lord,​

and your law gives me delight.​

(Psalm 119:174)​

​

​

i mean, that's obvious, reading it, isn't it?
so obvious question -- what is salvation? we know that one, right? of course we do! we're Christians! salvation is our bread and butter; we are experts among people. in fact i probably don't even have to explain.
but one thing let's mention - what kind of person needs salvation?
someone who has sin, right? they need to be saved from the damnation they incur against a holy God.

I have strayed like a lost sheep.​

Seek your servant,​

for I have not forgotten your commands.​

(Psalm 119:176)​

​

that's an interesting word, 'strayed' -- kinda like the people wandering in the wilderness who were supposed to be on the path to the promised land. lost, needing to be rescued and redeemed.
that's one word that's translated 'strayed' in this song; taah -- i don't know Hebrew but the dictionary says it means to err, deceive/mislead, be deceived/misled or wander (from the right way). whoever is praying Psalm 119, they close the song with this statement. that they are deceived, that they stray from the path, that they do wrong.

interestingly there's another word translated as 'stray' in Psalm 119

Before I was afflicted I went astray:​

but now have I kept thy word.​

(Psalm 119:67)​

​

this word is shagag -- again, i don't know Hebrew, but that's the same word here, in the Law:

And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. ​

(Numbers 15:27-28)​

​

so whoever is praying Psalm 119 is guilty of sinning in ignorance. in the context of the song, now we know what he or she means by "afflicted" - having received the commands - which is great, because it brings us back to the OP subject: why was this law given which cannot impart life or righteousness? is it the psalmists's faith in God that is rewarded with life or is the atoning sacrifice a priest made for the psalmist to atone for his sins in ignorance before he received the law?


you think that's overthinking it?
maybe. but i think i'd rather overthink than under
so, thanks!

Prophecies sometimes are a mix of the present and the prophetic, a mix of the prophet himself and the Messiah. We see what is prophetic and what applies to Jesus and what is not prophetic and does not apply to Jesus. I personally don't have any problem with that. Consider Ananias who didn't even know he was prophesying.

I discarded years ago the common Christian thinking that everything has to be either black or white.

 

[posthuman]

It is Yahshua. In the volume of the book it is written of Him. He came to do YAH's will.

yes all of it is testimony of Him. but that doesn't mean every word of every psalm is Him speaking or praying, or in particular any one psalm. for example He is not even the one all of Psalm 22 is about.

it is clear, the one speaking in Psalm 119 is not without sin; the man Christ Jesus is.
the record of Moses' life is a testimony of Christ but every action of Moses is not Christ's action. it is more likely that this is a psalm of Moshe than of Yahshua. it prefigures and speaks of the Lord, but the Lord is not in need of being saved from anything. He is come a man and He is never not God. no one takes His life from Him; He lays it down and takes it up again.

 

[posthuman]

Prophecies sometimes are a mix of the present and the prophetic, a mix of the prophet himself and the Messiah. We see what is prophetic and what applies to Jesus and what is not prophetic and does not apply to Jesus. I personally don't have any problem with that. Consider Ananias who didn't even know he was prophesying.

I discarded years ago the common Christian thinking that everything has to be either black or white.

i agree with that for sure - there can be thousands of years between a comma in a prophecy ((Isaiah 61:1 / Luke 4:18 for example)), and it may not even be the same person being spoken of in two parts of one sentence ((e.g. Ezekiel 28)). but it is very important to the doctrine of evanyiy, whom i assume to be a disciple of '119 ministries' ((?)), to maintain that 100% of Psalm 119 is Christ praying to God from sheol to have mercy on His soul, boasting in His works.

that ought to be addressed somewhere, and even though it is not specifically relevant to this thread, why not here? i'm looking for tangents that touch on the OP subject, of course, but first it is necessary to establish the person of the Messiah, which is God manifest in the flesh, a hypostatic union.

 

[evyaniy]

Psalm 40 is a Messianic Psalm. The writer of Hebrews quotes it in chapter 10 starting in verse 4.....

Hebrews 10
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when He cometh into the world, He saith, Sacrifice and offering Thou wouldest not, but a body hast Thou prepared Me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin Thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me,) to do thy will, O Elohiym.

That quote comes from Psalm 40 which says.....

Psalm 40
6 Sacrifice and offering Thou didst not desire; Mine ears hast Thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of Me,
8 I delight to do Thy will, O My Elohiym: yea, Thy law is within My heart.
9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained My lips, O YHVH, Thou knowest.
10 I have not hid Thy righteousness within My heart; I have declared Thy faithfulness and Thy salvation: I have not concealed Thy lovingkindness and Thy truth from the great congregation.
11 Withhold not thou Thy tender mercies from Me, O YHVH: let Thy lovingkindness and Thy Truth continually preserve Me.

It is clearly Messiah speaking. The writer of Hebrews tells us it is Messiah.

In the next verses He says this.....

12 For innumerable evils have compassed Me about: Mine iniquities have taken hold upon Me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of Mine head: therefore My heart faileth Me.
13 Be pleased, O YHVH, to deliver Me: O YHVH, make haste to help Me.

He says His iniquities have take hold of Him. How could Messiah say that? How could Psalm 40 be Messiah speaking? Because He took our sins upon Himself as if they were His own. Psalm 40 is Messiah speaking all the way through and confessing our sins as His own in the verse above even though in a previous verse He said "I delight to do Thy will, O My Elohiym: yea, Thy law is within My heart."

He finishes Psalm 40 with this.

14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after My soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish Me evil.
15 Let them be desolate for a reward of their shame that say unto Me, Aha, aha.
16 Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love Thy salvation say continually, YHVH be magnified.
17 But I am poor and needy; yet the Adonay thinketh upon Me: thou art My help and My deliverer; make no tarrying, O My Elohiym.

It is Yahshua praying in Psalm 40 just as it is Him praying through Psalm 119. He took our sins upon Himself and bore our guilt. Isaiah 53 tells us that. The sacrifices in the law show us that as the writer of Hebrews 10 says at the start of the chapter.

 

[evyaniy]

yes all of it is testimony of Him. but that doesn't mean every word of every psalm is Him speaking or praying, or in particular any one psalm. for example He is not even the one all of Psalm 22 is about.

it is clear, the one speaking in Psalm 119 is not without sin; the man Christ Jesus is.
the record of Moses' life is a testimony of Christ but every action of Moses is not Christ's action. it is more likely that this is a psalm of Moshe than of Yahshua. it prefigures and speaks of the Lord, but the Lord is not in need of being saved from anything. He is come a man and He is never not God. no one takes His life from Him; He lays it down and takes it up again.

Psalm 22 is Messiah speaking from beginning to end.

 

[evyaniy]

Psalm 119 is Messiah speaking.
Psalm 40 is Messiah speaking.

We can learn and gain understanding from what He says.

 

[posthuman]

Psalm 22 is Messiah speaking from beginning to end.

Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
(Psalm 22:4)
​

who is Christ's father?

 

[posthuman]

Psalm 22 is Messiah speaking from beginning to end.

you sure about that? have you looked, or just parroting your rabbi?

I cry in the day time, but Thou hearest not;
(Psalm 22:2)​

​

And I know that You always hear Me, ​

but because of the people who are standing by I said this, ​

that they may believe that You sent Me.
(John 11:42)​