why would millennial kingdom not be literal?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Is the millennial kingdom a literal earthly kingdom

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 66.7%
  • No

    Votes: 10 33.3%

  • Total voters
    30

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
What good would the antichrist do after all of the true believers have been raptured ? He has no need for the unsaved.


Because there will be Gentiles who will receive Christ after the church has been gathered, as well as the nation Israel during the time of the antichrist and the time of God's wrath. The former are referred to as the great tribulation saints of whom the beast will be given authority to make war against and conquer. The church cannot be here during that time because Jesus took upon himself the wrath that every believer deserves and we are therefore not appointed to suffer God's wrath, ergo, we must be removed prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath. Below is the information regarding the great tribulation saints:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

I answered, “Sir, you are the one who knows.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Regarding this, if you will notice the word church is used throughout chapters 1 thru 3 and then never used again after the end of chapter 3. Coincidence? I think not. After the end of chapter 3 you will only see the word "hagios" translated as "saints" throughout the rest of the narrative. The meaning is that the church is no longer on the earth after the end of chapter 3, with chapter 4:1 being a prophetic allusion to the gathering of the church.

Furthermore the antichrist is here now and ruling in the churches or as better stated in 2Thess. 2:3-4 the man of sin, son of perdition.


The spirit or type of antichrist has been hear from the beginning. But the literal man who will play the part of the antichrist is most certainly already in the world but has not yet been revealed. Regarding this 1 John 2:1-7 says:


"
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."

So according to the scripture above, anyone who is a deceiver and who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh is a type of antichrist. But, there is a specific person coming who will be thee antichrist and who will also have a man who will be a false prophet who will be performing miracles on his behalf, as revealed in Rev.13:11-17

The Lord's promise in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thes.4:13-18 will take place prior to the beginning of God's wrath. The church can't be here for that, because God's wrath was already poured on Jesus, satisfying it completely.

Here something for you to consider regarding the gathering of the church prior God's wrath being poured out:

In Rev.17:14 we have the called, chosen and faithful followers returning with Christ to the earth to end the age, which would be a reference to believers within the church. If they are returning with him from heaven to the earth, then they would already have to be in heaven in order to return with him.

In Rev.19:6-8 the bride/church is seen in heaven at the wedding of the Lamb receiving her fine linen, white and clean. Then in Rev.19:14 we see the bride/church following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing her fine linen that she will have previously received.

If the church/bride is receiving her fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb in heaven and the church is seen following Christ out of heaven, then she would already have to be in heaven.



 
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
47
0
we are far away from the early church........

now we got Jesus returning in secret before the second coming u see.......
maybe there is a rapture during the tribulation too some say...... its getting outta hand.

forget hulkamania........ what u gonna do when rapturemania runs wild on u brother??????
 

carl11

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2017
277
31
28
Yes, 2 resurrections, general resurrections.

But don't you have 3?

1. Jesus first fruits.?

2. 1st resur of Rev 20?

3. 2nd resur of Rev 20?

Is this right?

----------

I believe that Jesus' resur is the same as the 1st resur of Rev 20.


And the 2nd resur is the one descried as the 2nd in Rev 20.

This second one of Rev 20, is the rapt/resur 7th trumpet, 2nd coming for salvation, yet to come.
Only 2....the first fruits are the true believers
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Because there will be Gentiles who will receive Christ after the church has been gathered, as well as the nation Israel during the time of the antichrist and the time of God's wrath.
The antichrists (many are here) The wrath of God is being revealed...still working toward the final wrath the last day.

Christ took on the final wrath (judgment the second death ) not the daily wrath which is still be revealed from heaven .

God puts no difference between a Jew and a Gentile seeing if any man has not the born again Spirit of Christ they do not belong to God. He purifies their heart by a work of His faith or called a labor of His love just as he does for any other sinner in need of a savior..

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(the unseen work of God's faith ) Act 15:8

When he comes next (the last day) our new incorruptible bodies will be given as the Sun and the moon (the time keepers) are under the feet of His bride. The end of time has come. The corrupted heaven and earth that moaned in expectation of the Sons of God will go up in smoke never to arise again .The former things (like the Sun and the moon the time keepers will not be remembered or ever come to mind.

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Rom 8:19

The spirit or type of antichrist has been hear from the beginning. But the literal man who will play the part of the antichrist is most certainly already in the world but has not yet been revealed. Regarding this 1 John 2:1-7 says:
The father of lies Satan has always used a literal man except for in the garden when he used another creature which no one knows what it looked like before he corrupted the whole creation. . The god of this world has no form and in order to draw men away from God he takes on the form as he did with Peter in Mathew 16 when Peter blasphemed the Son of man.(forgivable)
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
Brother Locutus,

The judgement scene of Rev 20 is, I believe, future, and not the dest of Jeru 70ad.

I have thought about this, since I started talking to Old Hermit some time ago,

I see reasons why this cannot be 70 ad.

The events that take place around the judgement, the events involving the dragon, the resurrections, the timing and extent of the mill/kingdom period, death being destroyed, and the heavenly scene, are in conflict with the 70 ad theory.

Resolving the issues involving the descriptions of this event and surrounding this event, shown in the other parts of the Rev and Bible, leads me to believe that the 70 ad time line is probably, flawed.

===

Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess, when is that? It is nowhere in the 70 ad theory, is it? How does it fit in to what you are thinking?

Death is destroyed, this can ONLY happen after the 2nd resurrection 1 Cor 15:23-28. past 70 ad in your time line, because you have the 2nd resurrection taking place in 70 ad, yes? Then everything cannot be done by 70 ad.

Can death be totally destroyed, if there is still physical death?

The dragon Rev 20:2, is Rome, how is Rome thrown into the abyss, and then come out again by 70 ad?

We see His face Rev 22:4, How is that 70 ad?

===

I'm in no hurry.......except that the planet is coming to an end soon.

Study, Find some answers.

I don't want you to have less faith, I want you to have more.

We are going to need it for what's going to happen.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
Only 2....the first fruits are the true believers
Israel before Jesus were also true believers.

Jesus is the first fruits, that is clear.

But when Jesus resurrected, He brought all the saved souls from Paradise (OT souls) with Him, when He ascended to heaven Eph 4:8-10.

This would be those who were shown with Jesus in the Rev. The 144000, (also called the first fruits Rev 14), the mult that no man can count (MNMCC), the 24 elders.

These are all the first fruits of the resurrection.

--

This should not be confused with the first fruits of the kingdom, those were the people on Pentecost and afterward.

---

The 2nd resurrection coming is where Jesus comes for the kingdom, It is the 2nd coming for salvation, the rapt/resur coming, the 7th/last trumpet.

And after that it is the end.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
we are far away from the early church........

now we got Jesus returning in secret before the second coming u see.......
maybe there is a rapture during the tribulation too some say...... its getting outta hand.

forget hulkamania........ what u gonna do when rapturemania runs wild on u brother??????
Muzungu256, don't know whether you are confused or you are trolling? either way, there is a single event the Bible speaks of that is different from the 2nd Advent. There have been 6 before and this will be the 7th. Being "caught-up" Raptured into Heaven that is. Nothing is out of hand as long as you believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 cor 15:1-4) by Faith and Faith Alone.

Good Luck and have a Blessed Day.

Blade
 

carl11

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2017
277
31
28


The spirit or type of antichrist has been hear from the beginning. But the literal man who will play the part of the antichrist is most certainly already in the world but has not yet been revealed. Regarding this 1 John 2:1-7 says:

"
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."

So according to the scripture above, anyone who is a deceiver and who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh is a type of antichrist. But, there is a specific person coming who will be thee antichrist and who will also have a man who will be a false prophet who will be performing miracles on his behalf, as revealed in Rev.13:11-17
1Jn. 4:3

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

As far as this so called person performing miracles as describe in Rev. 13:11-17; I've got some news for you this is already happening in our day and it is called slain in the spirit, this is the fire that is being called down from heaven.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
The kingdom is literal, it is just spiritual.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,769
113
The kingdom is literal, it is just spiritual.
At this point. There is a future literal, physical, tangible, real Kingdom of God on earth (and throughout the universe) established by Christ.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
At this point. There is a future literal, physical, tangible, real Kingdom of God on earth (and throughout the universe) established by Christ.
Brother N6,

The kingdom came on Pentecost and has been here ever since.

Heb 9:1, "Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary."

Do you think, that we will be returning to a worldly sanctuary? With ordinances of divine services?

When Jesus has entered a more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands? Heb 9:11.

Do you think that Jesus will come in His glory, the glory that no man can see His face and Live? Moses, Ex 33:20.

Do you say that He will come, and be here on planet earth, and people will see His face and live?

Or will He hide His glory from us, hide/cover His face from us still?

We are at the end of the mill kingdom now.

Now is the day of salvation. Now is the time for salvation.

Not after the door is shut (Noah), and the fire begins to fall (Lot).