Why you have NOT repented and false condemnation

[ember]

Originally Posted by ladylynn

This is a great topic ember! Another thought that comes to many people's minds as I've noticed here is the part about God's judgment and wrath. There are those here who don't know there IS no more judgment and wrath or guilt or shame for the child of God even while we are repenting.

Thanks Lynn...something I learned a few years back and that sticks with me, is actually not found in scripture but it makes sense and I think it applies. Horses can be funny animals...very hard to 'unteach' one and they sure learn bad habits fast (like people, you know?) anyway, an instructor once said to me...don't correct the horse ...just keep showing it the right way to do something...and you know what? it works! PLUS you need oodles of patience with horses and you need to end a lesson whether on the ground or in the saddle, on a good note

Jesus took all of that for us when He died on the cross. Yet there are those who keep trying to take some of it too when they sin. They don't know they can't take ANY OF IT AWAY by their feelings of sorrow or regret. Those feelings of guilt and trying to remedy it can't help spiritually. That is unsaved man's solution. We are not unsaved anymore. We go another way by denying the flesh in these matters as well.

I think guilt and condemnation play a pretty big part in that

Many don't apply this truth when they "repent" Changing your mind to align with God's truth can be at times hard when we think of how stupid we were when we didn't believe Him in the first place. I've often times told the Lord how sorry I am for not listening or not walking accordingly in the knowledge of all the love He has for me.

It's ongoing. In this life, we will never 'arrive' we have to pursue God..He says we will 'find' Him when we look for Him with our whole heart. I'm sure you know that

So in that I have regrets at the time I realize what I've done., but God has forgiven me already for that and then again I'm reminded of who I am in Christ and in seconds JOYFUL and re-charged again by the knowledge of His grace and truth. Now I can keep on keeping on without the snares of human sorrow that is not like Godly sorrow.

Sadly, many Christians seem to receive some kind of 'relief' from pointing out the sins of others...we have prob all done that...as in 'oh man, I'm so glad I don't do or have not done such and such So often, Christians can be the least forgiving on the planet...as though a person's 'performance' somehow indicates whether or not they have made the grade. We forget that none of us have 'made the grade'

Godly sorrow brings some major good stuff!! Human sorrow has shame and guilt and a standing back away from God. When God's repentance shows us the truth of our NEED TO COME BOLDLY TO THE THRONE OF GRACE TO FIND GRACE AND HELP IN TIME OF NEED!

Grace in time of need ... God makes it so plain He offers forgiveness AND acceptance...NOT rejection and condemnation.

He gives us fresh revelations each time we believe in the ones He gave before.

Does this mean we are free from feeling condemned all the time? Not me. It takes a fresh load of re-acquainting myself over again about the love of God In Christ. The unmerited favor I have because of Jesus. It is like the Bible says - it's what lifts us up from the dead!

Yup..we need fresh manna every day...

I must hear it and think about it when I go to bed and when I wake up. I put it on my tv on DVD and VHS tapes. I must read about it in the morning and write about it in the evening. I need to listen to it in my car and always keep it before my mind's eyes and ears and heart.

I come here on CC to re think and share it on these forums. The love of God is what will get us through and cause us to have faith in the One who first gave it to us. But our natural minds see the world and we have to make a choice of what eyes we use when we think about life here. Heb.11:111 Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses].

Much like those old testament saints who kept the Word on the door posts of their houses so they saw it and were reminded it of it over and over again. That is what we need to do. Or at least that is what I have to do. Because humans are so needy we need to always see Jesus and who we are IN Him. Then we will bear lots of fruit. That is what abiding is., seeing Jesus and our position in Him. True abiding like John 15:5 says. Without Him we can do nothing.

I think it's pretty clear we all need to keep the Word before us and refresh ourselves with it...otherwise, it's like a pool of water with no in or outflow...gets stale and no one can drink it

 

[ember]

An explanation of the topic of repentance is worth hearing. I was watching the video you provided, it only worked for 11 seconds, so please give information (a link) for me to watch it at the original site. Thank you

Hi Abounding

TRY THIS LINK

 

[PennEd]

Originally Posted by ladylynn

This is a great topic ember! Another thought that comes to many people's minds as I've noticed here is the part about God's judgment and wrath. There are those here who don't know there IS no more judgment and wrath or guilt or shame for the child of God even while we are repenting.

Thanks Lynn...something I learned a few years back and that sticks with me, is actually not found in scripture but it makes sense and I think it applies. Horses can be funny animals...very hard to 'unteach' one and they sure learn bad habits fast (like people, you know?) anyway, an instructor once said to me...don't correct the horse ...just keep showing it the right way to do something...and you know what? it works! PLUS you need oodles of patience with horses and you need to end a lesson whether on the ground or in the saddle, on a good note

Jesus took all of that for us when He died on the cross. Yet there are those who keep trying to take some of it too when they sin. They don't know they can't take ANY OF IT AWAY by their feelings of sorrow or regret. Those feelings of guilt and trying to remedy it can't help spiritually. That is unsaved man's solution. We are not unsaved anymore. We go another way by denying the flesh in these matters as well.

I think guilt and condemnation play a pretty big part in that

Many don't apply this truth when they "repent" Changing your mind to align with God's truth can be at times hard when we think of how stupid we were when we didn't believe Him in the first place. I've often times told the Lord how sorry I am for not listening or not walking accordingly in the knowledge of all the love He has for me.

It's ongoing. In this life, we will never 'arrive' we have to pursue God..He says we will 'find' Him when we look for Him with our whole heart. I'm sure you know that

So in that I have regrets at the time I realize what I've done., but God has forgiven me already for that and then again I'm reminded of who I am in Christ and in seconds JOYFUL and re-charged again by the knowledge of His grace and truth. Now I can keep on keeping on without the snares of human sorrow that is not like Godly sorrow.

Sadly, many Christians seem to receive some kind of 'relief' from pointing out the sins of others...we have prob all done that...as in 'oh man, I'm so glad I don't do or have not done such and such So often, Christians can be the least forgiving on the planet...as though a person's 'performance' somehow indicates whether or not they have made the grade. We forget that none of us have 'made the grade'

Godly sorrow brings some major good stuff!! Human sorrow has shame and guilt and a standing back away from God. When God's repentance shows us the truth of our NEED TO COME BOLDLY TO THE THRONE OF GRACE TO FIND GRACE AND HELP IN TIME OF NEED!

Grace in time of need ... God makes it so plain He offers forgiveness AND acceptance...NOT rejection and condemnation.

He gives us fresh revelations each time we believe in the ones He gave before.

Does this mean we are free from feeling condemned all the time? Not me. It takes a fresh load of re-acquainting myself over again about the love of God In Christ. The unmerited favor I have because of Jesus. It is like the Bible says - it's what lifts us up from the dead!

Yup..we need fresh manna every day...

I must hear it and think about it when I go to bed and when I wake up. I put it on my tv on DVD and VHS tapes. I must read about it in the morning and write about it in the evening. I need to listen to it in my car and always keep it before my mind's eyes and ears and heart.

I come here on CC to re think and share it on these forums. The love of God is what will get us through and cause us to have faith in the One who first gave it to us. But our natural minds see the world and we have to make a choice of what eyes we use when we think about life here. Heb.11:111 Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses].

Much like those old testament saints who kept the Word on the door posts of their houses so they saw it and were reminded it of it over and over again. That is what we need to do. Or at least that is what I have to do. Because humans are so needy we need to always see Jesus and who we are IN Him. Then we will bear lots of fruit. That is what abiding is., seeing Jesus and our position in Him. True abiding like John 15:5 says. Without Him we can do nothing.

I think it's pretty clear we all need to keep the Word before us and refresh ourselves with it...otherwise, it's like a pool of water with no in or outflow...gets stale and no one can drink it

Wow! Truly AWESOME post sister! God bless you.

 

[Ariel82]

Repentance is a brokenness of heart...when you realize you are wrong, in rebellion to God and His will. Its when you cry out For God to save you and forgive you.

It's when you give control,of your whole life to Him.

Grace is when you know God has forgiven you....are you a greater judge to condemn what God has forgiven.

Faith is believing in God's forgiveness and love.

Too often people lack faith in God and place faith in themselves and their own ability. Without God we can do nothing.

However faith is just the beginning of the journey for Christians.

You can do nothing to earn your salvation, but once you receive it God works in your heart and mind to become like Him and to love others as He does...

We add to our faith, virtue, knowledge, self control, perservance, brotherly kindness and Agape love.

We would not need perservance if it was easy and came without a few stumbles in self control. But like a loving Father God teaches and guides us...


Which of us, who are sinners, would beat and scold a toddler for falling while they learn to walk? Why then do we think that God who surpass all goodness would punish those babes just born again and learning to walk?

 

[ember]

Repentance is a brokenness of heart...when you realize you are wrong, in rebellion to God and His will. Its when you cry out For God to save you and forgive you.

It's when you give control,of your whole life to Him.

Grace is when you know God has forgiven you....are you a greater judge to condemn what God has forgiven.

Faith is believing in God's forgiveness and love.

Too often people lack faith in God and place faith in themselves and their own ability. Without God we can do nothing.

However faith is just the beginning of the journey for Christians.

You can do nothing to earn your salvation, but once you receive it God works in your heart and mind to become like Him and to love others as He does...

We add to our faith, virtue, knowledge, self control, perservance, brotherly kindness and Agape love.

We would not need perservance if it was easy and came without a few stumbles in self control. But like a loving Father God teaches and guides us...


Which of us, who are sinners, would beat and scold a toddler for falling while they learn to walk? Why then do we think that God who surpass all goodness would punish those babes just born again and learning to walk?

Hi Ariel...much of what you say is exactly so

however, we are trying to get back to the biblical meaning of the word repent...the word repent has been changed over the years until, it seems, it has taken on a meaning not intended by the original authors in scripture

repentance is not a broken heart...God heals hearts...I've had mine broken by people as we all most likely have

to repent means to have a change of mind...so yes, naturally, that means we quit our sin because that is what humans do...they sin...however we have recorded in scripture that God also repents...there are about 15 references more or less to Him doing so...perhaps when I have time I can post those...or someone else can? hint hint LOL!...anyway...

here's a quote from my post 36 (not my quote)

God’s mind “changes,” not because it responds to unforeseen circumstances, but because he has ordained that his mind accord with the way he himself orders the changing events of the world.

so, if we repent, it seems to me we are trying to align our thoughts with God's thoughts...and we do that by renewing our mind with the Word...ie Bible

we cannot grieve over our sins all day long...we focus on the wrong thing when we do that and that can lead to depression in some folks, anger in others and even hopelessness

from your post, I can see that you do not live like that...but so sadly many Christians do and they lack understanding for several reasons...one reason, is that they hear sermons on Sunday like a patchwork quilt...they are left to put it together 2. they do not study on their own even though scripture states we need to do that...and other reasons

so, we are just trying to get back to the actual meaning of the word...I hope to be able to post more about that later today..I'm pretty pressed for time right now, but this a topic that needs better understanding IMO

I have noticed someone else has started a thread on repentance...have not checked it out...but I see it's there...

 

[JosephsDreams]

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

– 1 John 3:9 (NIV)
The life that is changed by God has a new posture toward sin. What was once a normal pattern now becomes a source of discomfort, because the Spirit of God is bringing conviction to our heart and changing us. So the conviction of sin is not to bring shame, but change, because God’s Spirit is faithfully guiding us from our old nature to our new reality. We are not alone in our struggle against sin—God Himself is faithfully leading us.
By Dave Whitehead.​

 

[Ariel82]

People used to believe that the mind resided in the heart not the brain.

 

[Ariel82]

When it's says that God repented He made man in the days of Noah, you don't think their was a brokenness of heart?

If repentance is only a mental excerise, it's not true repentance.

People's problem is not a need for redefining the Word repentance..,,,it's a lack of faith that God actually loves and forgives them.

 

[Ariel82]

When people continue to beat themselves up because they aren't sinless, don't give them false assurances.

Instead point them to ways to build their faith...if in doubt they should pray and search scriptures for themselves...stop giving bandaids and patches to the quilt

And have them drink their milk themselves instead of just giving them the cream.

 

[VernonFrancis]

While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8b

the 'good news' is God loves us and saved us before we had the capacity to comprehend what He was doing. We should know today that we have done nothing to earn our salvation, because Jesus died for us before we existed.

Repentance to me is recognizing our need for a Savior, it is understanding that without Jesus Christ we have no hope. That is without Jesus we will perish separated from God. So many do not see a need for Jesus to save them, and so they do not believe the gospel.

That is why I believe Jesus said 'Repent and believe the gospel', because we are unable to believe the gospel until we recognize our need for a Savior.

just a thought.

 

[Sirk]

the great thing about this post is nobody has to agree with it :0 it is your opinion. And that is ok

I think it is a pretty valid opinion based on lots of experience seeing people in action.

 

[kaylagrl]

So, have you been cornered and told you need to repent? Has someone waved a big scary Family Edition Sized, gold leaf bound, ink on vellum leather bound Bible in your face or possibly hit you over the head with it?

Has someone told you that you are going to hell unless you repent even though you do believe that Christ died for you?

Have you done your Jim dandy bestest to repent and still find your feet dragging up to the altar every time the call goes out for repentance?

Do you promise yourself you will not commit that sin again or possibly just stop sinning altogether every time you get yelled at in church by an itinerant Evangelist or Mrs. Clout prays for 45 minutes at the Wednesday night prayer meeting and you fall asleep and fall off your chair and she points at you as you wake up and shrills 'there! that is what I am talking about?'

well, the reason you keep flailing and failing is a lack of understanding of what repent actually means and what the event actually entails

Many understand the term repentance (from the Greek word metanoia) to mean “turning from sin.” This is not the biblical definition of repentance. In the Bible, the word repent means “to change one’s mind.” The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions (Luke 3:8-14; Acts 3:19). Acts 26:20 declares, “I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.” The full biblical definition of repentance is a change of mind that results in a change of action. (source)

Acts 26:20-“So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. 20First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds..."

Acts3 19Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come

This is the same issue as people who say we are not saved by works. No we are saved for good works.

"While repentance is not a work that earns salvation, repentance unto salvation does result in works. It is impossible to truly and fully change your mind without that causing a change in action. In the Bible, repentance results in a change in behavior. That is why John the Baptist called people to “produce fruit in keeping with repentance” . A person who has truly repented from rejection of Christ to faith in Christ will give evidence of a changed life.Turning from sin is not the definition of repentance, but it is one of the results of genuine, faith-based repentance towards the Lord Jesus Christ.-http://www.gotquestions.org/repentance.html

 

[ember]

People used to believe that the mind resided in the heart not the brain.

When it's says that God repented He made man in the days of Noah, you don't think their was a brokenness of heart?

If repentance is only a mental excerise, it's not true repentance.

People's problem is not a need for redefining the Word repentance..,,,it's a lack of faith that God actually loves and forgives them.

first of all, please do not assume to know what I think...you do not know me...ask questions...that requires an answer and a chance to explain

well now hold on a minute there...no one said anything about a mental exercise

the Bible defines this 'exercise' as a RENEWED mind...which is a turning away from our thoughts and agreeing with what God states, so by that very definition, it would include a change outside the boundaries of thought

In scripture, the heart is mentioned many times...almost 300 I found. it means simply our soul...intellect...will...obviously the heart is an organ...not capable of making decisions...although many people make decisions based solely on how they feel

You might also state that the 'heart' refers to the inner person...what we cannot see...but is not simply flesh and blood

again, no one is redefining the meaning of the word REPENT...the actual problem is that the original meaning has already been redefined and we are trying to discuss the actual and true meaning as found in the Bible

 

[ember]

I'm not sure what you are saying here kayla......

again, the word repent IN scripture actually means to change one's mind...in other words, stop doing your thing and start doing God's thing...to put it in colloquial language

scripture defines that by renewing the mind...instead of the grooves in our brains worn by sin and doing OUR will, we study the Word...we take it in, and make new paths for our thoughts that AGREE with what God says to us

repentance is not banging on our chests and wailing oh woe is me...and again, I'm not sure what point you are making, so forgive me if I misunderstand

 

[Ariel82]

first of all, please do not assume to know what I think...you do not know me...ask questions...that requires an answer and a chance to explain

well now hold on a minute there...no one said anything about a mental exercise

the Bible defines this 'exercise' as a RENEWED mind...which is a turning away from our thoughts and agreeing with what God states, so by that very definition, it would include a change outside the boundaries of thought

In scripture, the heart is mentioned many times...almost 300 I found. it means simply our soul...intellect...will...obviously the heart is an organ...not capable of making decisions...although many people make decisions based solely on how they feel

You might also state that the 'heart' refers to the inner person...what we cannot see...but is not simply flesh and blood

again, no one is redefining the meaning of the word REPENT...the actual problem is that the original meaning has already been redefined and we are trying to discuss the actual and true meaning as found in the Bible

No where in my post did I imply that I knew what you thought.

You are kind of prickly to take a general statement as an attack against you personally.

You could have responded simply that what you mean by repentance is not just a mental exercise or heartfelt plea for forgiveness but a complete change of a person's mind and heart...

Which is what it seems like you are saying.

I would disagree because what you describe is not biblical repentance but the born again experience.

How can God repent If you define repentance as "agreeing with God's will"?

 

[Ariel82]

And you never answered my question about if you thought God was broken hearted when he repented making man during the days of Noah?

We are talking about repentance in the Bible and that is one time I know when God repented. Therefore it leads me to believe that repentance is the brokenheartedness associated with our actions or thoughts.

It is when we realize we shouldn't have done something.

It is when we need God's grace and forgiveness.

For some that is where it stops...the seed is choked out by the cares of the world and they seem their own pleasures instead of God's will..

Or Satan steals it and they never believe that God forgives them in the first place...

Or they have shallow roots and only worship God as long as He gives them their 3 wishes/blessings of wealth, health and material happiness.

 

[Ariel82]

But for those who are born again...repentance leads to death of self and rebirth with a new mind and heart seeking God and His will even if they have to suffer and be beaten for speaking His truth and giving others His gospel.

 

[kaylagrl]

I'm not sure what you are saying here kayla......

again, the word repent IN scripture actually means to change one's mind...in other words, stop doing your thing and start doing God's thing...to put it in colloquial language

scripture defines that by renewing the mind...instead of the grooves in our brains worn by sin and doing OUR will, we study the Word...we take it in, and make new paths for our thoughts that AGREE with what God says to us

repentance is not banging on our chests and wailing oh woe is me...and again, I'm not sure what point you are making, so forgive me if I misunderstand

No, no problem. I think I misunderstood your meaning actually. I was pointing out that we turn from sin,or our own will as you are saying and follow Gods will. So I think we're pretty much agreeing.

 

[ember]

No, no problem. I think I misunderstood your meaning actually. I was pointing out that we turn from sin,or our own will as you are saying and follow Gods will. So I think we're pretty much agreeing.

OK...thanks!

all good then

 

[ember]

No where in my post did I imply that I knew what you thought.

You are kind of prickly to take a general statement as an attack against you personally.

You could have responded simply that what you mean by repentance is not just a mental exercise or heartfelt plea for forgiveness but a complete change of a person's mind and heart...

Which is what it seems like you are saying.

I would disagree because what you describe is not biblical repentance but the born again experience.

How can God repent If you define repentance as "agreeing with God's will"?

so I am kind of prickly, (at least it is only kind of), you would have done a better job at answering yourself for me, you are translating what I wrote ...I guess we speak a different language and (phew) you disagree

thanks for explaining

And you never answered my question about if you thought God was broken hearted when he repented making man during the days of Noah?

guess I'll have to go stand in the corner...please don't hurt me