Wiccans, Devilry? Heresy?

[Densetzu]

But they do believe in lucifer. Wicca teaches that Lucifer is the true god, the god of the sun and light. We know that lucifer is satan. Therefore witches are luciferians aka satanists. The rituals all represent the devil having sex with them in the person of their lover. They are hypocrites and liars because they pretend to not follow satan when in fact they do. We know they do. They know they do as well, they will just not admit it.

You know absolutely nothing about Wicca. Also Jesus-Is-Savior is a horrible website full of ignorant liars and you're wrong to believe anything they print on the matter. In Wicca, there are two deities: The God and The Goddess. That's it. They don't believe in Satan, they certainly don't worship him, and their magic rituals are not among the eight forbidden in the Bible.

Idiotic statements like yours are the reason all the Wiccans I know are indignant towards Christians. It would be like someone telling you that you ritually slaughtered animals for sacrifices or that you masturbated to child porn in your worship--it's completely untrue and offensive.

 

[Arel]

You know absolutely nothing about Wicca. Also Jesus-Is-Savior is a horrible website full of ignorant liars and you're wrong to believe anything they print on the matter. In Wicca, there are two deities: The God and The Goddess. That's it. They don't believe in Satan, they certainly don't worship him, and their magic rituals are not among the eight forbidden in the Bible.

Idiotic statements like yours are the reason all the Wiccans I know are indignant towards Christians. It would be like someone telling you that you ritually slaughtered animals for sacrifices or that you masturbated to child porn in your worship--it's completely untrue and offensive.

What do you think you're doing, spreading FACTS and TRUTH around here?!

 

[MahogonySnail]

You know absolutely nothing about Wicca. Also Jesus-Is-Savior is a horrible website full of ignorant liars and you're wrong to believe anything they print on the matter. In Wicca, there are two deities: The God and The Goddess. That's it. They don't believe in Satan, they certainly don't worship him, and their magic rituals are not among the eight forbidden in the Bible.

Idiotic statements like yours are the reason all the Wiccans I know are indignant towards Christians. It would be like someone telling you that you ritually slaughtered animals for sacrifices or that you masturbated to child porn in your worship--it's completely untrue and offensive.

They have many different names for their deity, one of them is lucifer. They also use the horned goat in their symbolism the same as satanists. It's ironic that they have these connections,to satan, and yet you don't think they are satanist. If it looks like and smells like a duck it most probably is a duck. All I see here is professing "christians" justifying the beliefs and practices of witchcraft. Not surprising considering your minds are already mush towards such things for reading too much Harry Potter. The reason why most wiccans are against christianity is because they are fed lies about how they were burnt at the stake by christians which is entirely untrue. Satan is the father of lies so thats another way they worship satan by believing these lies.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Wiccan is a post-modern derivative of Theosophy.

 

[MahogonySnail]

and their magic rituals are not among the eight forbidden in the Bible.

Please quote any verse in the bible which says the magic rituals which are approved.

 

[Arel]

They have many different names for their deity, one of them is lucifer. They also use the horned goat in their symbolism the same as satanists. It's ironic that they have these connections,to satan, and yet you don't think they are satanist. If it looks like and smells like a duck it most probably is a duck. All I see here is professing "christians" justifying the beliefs and practices of witchcraft. Not surprising considering your minds are already mush towards such things for reading too much Harry Potter.

Quite frankly, your opinion of ANYONE'S beliefs will always be subject to criticism in my eyes, especially if I know them to be false.

I am quite literally the most Jewish Jew in my COUNTY. I follow strict Judaism. And yet you constantly in debates try to tell me what I believe, regardless of how many times I tell you that you're wrong.

Plain and simple, you don't understand religious views that are not Christianity, so it's not inaccurate to challenge your "knowledge" of someone else's religious views.

Also, I've never read Potter, have no desire to, but I agree with Densetzu. He's absolutely spot-on. And you're wrong. As usual.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Lucifer is one of their gods is he not? Try and disprove that, it is found on any website to do with wicca. see
http://meta-religion.com/Spiritualism/Wicca/goddesses_and_gods.htm

btw I don't care if you follow strict hoodoo voodism, if you're wrong you're wrong. I wasn't aware that you being a Jewish Jew made you an expert on all things spiritual.

 

[Arel]

Lucifer is one of their gods is he not? Try and disprove that, it is found on any website to do with wicca. see
http://meta-religion.com/Spiritualism/Wicca/goddesses_and_gods.htm

Lucifer is one of their gods, but Lucifer is not Satan.

 

[MahogonySnail]

http://www.gotquestions.org/Lucifer-Satan.html#

http://www.carm.org/questions/about-demons/was-lucifer-originally-angel-worship


Even if lucifer is not satan, but merely a fallen angel, it's the same thing. Worship a fallen angel you basically are worshipping satan.

 

[Arel]

http://www.gotquestions.org/Lucifer-Satan.html#

http://www.carm.org/questions/about-demons/was-lucifer-originally-angel-worship


Even if lucifer is not satan, but merely a fallen angel, it's the same thing. Worship a fallen angel you worship satan.

I'm familiar with GotQuestions, and they are just like asking any Christian about issues like this one. Your religion is so fraught with paganism and other influences that you can't distinguish truth from lies.

"Lucifer" is a WORD, a TITLE, NOT a NAME. "Lucifer" is Latin for "morning star" and, in the bible, is referring to an earthly ruler and NOT to any being in the spiritual realm.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Although there are differences in how they translate the hebrew word helel (according to gotquestions) in
Luke 10:18 Jesus quoted from the passage in Isaiah and instead of saying lucifer, said satan, "I saw satan fall like lightning out of heaven".

Seeing as you believe in Christ and follow his teachings in the gospels, I imagine this would be a very hard one for your to argue against. Although we can argue about mere words all day long, Jesus basically taught that lucifer in Isaiah was satan. Ones a name, ones a title, big deal, all talking about the same person who was thrown out of heaven. Lucifer and satan are one and the same. Your arguments that lucifer isn't satan is a bit like if you said, "I follow Elyon but I don't follow G-d", I guess.

 

[Arel]

(according to gotquestions)

Don't do that. Research it for yourself, don't take their word for it.

Luke 10:18 Jesus quoted from the passage in Isaiah and instead of saying lucifer, said satan, "I saw satan fall like lightning out of heaven".

The passage in Isaiah itself is mistranslated. Why would a Hebrew author write a Latin word, hundreds of years before Latin was a language?

Seeing as you believe in Christ and follow his teachings in the gospels, I imagine this would be a very hard one for your to argue against.

Not really.

 

[pickles]

From a diffferent perspective.
I have know several people that have embraced one or another of these beliefs. They all have claimed to believe in God but place Jesus as a person in the same catagory as mohamed, or others. I have watched these people move this way claiming it is about being one with all things and believe we can all change the future through enlightenment. Most had been confused about the evils of the world and believed that by becoming more spiritual all of us could change the world and bring a future of peace.
What they do not see within themselves is that what they believe is all about controll. I have seen them become very selfinvolved and begin to see themselves as better than all that do not believe as they do. They have become so enamored with their belief that they can no longer see how lost they are. I see these beliefs becoming very interwoven into all choices in society today and a real danger to many in the future.
To say they woship satan , I do not know that is the intention. What I do see is many being decieved by this belief and as a result they are being seduced into a antichrist faith.
I try to witness through example and if able to word. But this is not an easy path as all believe they believe in God. I am very concerned about what lays ahead. That is why I am so greatful for the truth in the name of Jesus. His name is our true hope and weapon against this false God.
Through faith, hope , love and Jesus all is done in truth.
God bless, pickles

 

[Densetzu]

If you are trying to witness to a Wiccan, deeds are the best way. Show them you care about them as a person, rather than just angling for another evangelism merit badge. If you must use words, point out that Wicca is a very recent religion, concocted in the mid 20th century by taking concepts from various religions and mixing them together. Point out that there is no real historical argument for Wicca, while Christianity is based on the historical event of the Resurrection.

 

[Dread_Zeppelin]

As a Christian, if you came up to a Wiccan and called them a satanist or someone who worshiped satan not only would they think you were an ignorant zealot but also so full of yourself you didn't bother to research their religion. It's Christians like these that go in charging without doing the research that make others give the epic ''eye roll'' of disapproval. Do your research. Talk to Wiccans, they will tell you themselves that Lucifer, Satan, whatever, hardly if not at all plays a part in their religion. Great effective witnessing is someone who is knowledgable, compassionate, and articulate.

With that said, I dont support Wicca in any way. I just know my religions.

 

[Dread_Zeppelin]

All I see here is professing "christians" justifying the beliefs and practices of witchcraft. Not surprising considering your minds are already mush towards such things for reading too much Harry Potter. .

And furthermore, my father always said a poor debater is someone who attacks the person and not the subject. Seriously, Harry Potter? Seriously we're justifying beliefs by telling you that you're wrong? Such Christianly love.

 

[dustyzafu]

Lucifer is one of their gods is he not? Try and disprove that, it is found on any website to do with wicca

This is at best, a poorly researched assertion. At worst, and more likely, it's a lie. The word is Latin and some Celtic reconstructionist Wiccans, as an example, would have your head for the suggestion. You wouldn't have had to look over more than two or three websites to find some without a mention of Lucifer.

And this is something that's being ignored in this discussion - the sheer variability of what is called Wicca. There is no deity out there that all Wiccans worship. There aren't even any general categories which are indisputable - not all Wiccans are even duotheistic. Some of the more feminist streaks, for instance, don't recognize any male deities except as minor consorts.

The strength of an opinion seems to correlate positively with the ignorance about the topic.

 

[Matthew]

And this is something that's being ignored in this discussion - the sheer variability of what is called Wicca. There is no deity out there that all Wiccans worship. There aren't even any general categories which are indisputable - not all Wiccans are even duotheistic. Some of the more feminist streaks, for instance, don't recognize any male deities except as minor consorts.

This is why I think this is a difficult subject to discuss, it's not like Christianity where there is a foundation that the vast majority conform too, I have tried to learn about Wicca in the past but it is very difficult because it is not really defined, there are many variables and understanding one group doesn't mean you are close to understanding another.

 

[Densetzu]

This is true, but I think it's important to emphasize that mainline Wiccans (as much as there are such things) are not practising dark rituals in their basements or worshiping the devil. Some Wiccans are also Christians insomuch as a "Christian" is anyone who believes in Jesus and a "Wiccan" is someone who believes in dualistic theology and the Wiccan Rede. This isn't to say that they're right, just that Wicca isn't what a lot of people seem to think it is.

I think the most obvious objection we as followers of Jesus ought to have to Wicca is that their Rede contains only a negative morality: And it harm none, do as ye will. It lacks the positive moral imperitive to Love God, and Love your neighbor as yourself. Though even most Christians have trouble actually following said commands.

 

[dustyzafu]

I think the most obvious objection we as followers of Jesus ought to have to Wicca is that their Rede contains only a negative morality: And it harm none, do as ye will. It lacks the positive moral imperitive to Love God, and Love your neighbor as yourself. Though even most Christians have trouble actually following said commands.

One need only flip over to the Charge (and if you're even passingly familiar with the religion, you'll know what I mean) for an example that the short rede is not the final word in Wicca on morality and that they have positive commandments as well. One slogan out of context can't sustain a real criticism.