Wilful Sin?

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mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
289
64
28
#1
What is wilful sin?
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Is this the sin unto death?
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Thanks
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
22,545
11,213
113
56
#2
In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21), not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

In regards to 1 John 5:16, do you believe that John is referring to physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) or spiritual death? (Revelation 21:8).

Some people jump to the conclusion that John is talking about a believer committing a certain sin that leads them to spiritual death, but that does not seem to fit the context - 1 John 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,813
3,117
113
#3
What is wilful sin?
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Is this the sin unto death?
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Thanks
Willful sin is sin done with pride and a rejection that the sin is sin... A modern day example of this is the Gay Pride movement.. Which declares that homosexuality is good and to be celebrated.. It is sinning with pride and taking great offense if they are told it is sin..

The sin unto death is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. This was committed by the scribes who accused Jesus of doing His miracles by the power of a demon Beelzebub.. They accused the Holy Spirit of being a demon.. Thus they blasphemed the Holy Spirit..

Note that willfully sinning before one becomes a Christian is different from doing so after one becomes a Christian..
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
38,492
14,942
113
67
Tennessee
#4
What is wilful sin?
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Is this the sin unto death?
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Thanks
All sin is willful but God is merciful and compassionate to forgive sin. All sin is unto death but Jesus died for our sins so that we can live in the presence of God for eternity. There are certain circumstances where God may cut one's life short due to a certain persistent sinful lifestyle. Even then God forgives sin though He may end your physical life on earth.
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
289
64
28
#5
In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21), not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

In regards to 1 John 5:16, do you believe that John is referring to physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) or spiritual death? (Revelation 21:8).

Some people jump to the conclusion that John is talking about a believer committing a certain sin that leads them to spiritual death, but that does not seem to fit the context - 1 John 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
welled explained thanks
God Bless
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
289
64
28
#6
Willful sin is sin done with pride and a rejection that the sin is sin... A modern day example of this is the Gay Pride movement.. Which declares that homosexuality is good and to be celebrated.. It is sinning with pride and taking great offense if they are told it is sin..

The sin unto death is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. This was committed by the scribes who accused Jesus of doing His miracles by the power of a demon Beelzebub.. They accused the Holy Spirit of being a demon.. Thus they blasphemed the Holy Spirit..

Note that willfully sinning before one becomes a Christian is different from doing so after one becomes a Christian..
This coming in from a different angle ...... which is good
Just two question....... was the writer addressing Believers or non-believers? Would a non-believer understand this type of sin
Please don't be offended bro its good knowing from all angles
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
289
64
28
#7
All sin is willful but God is merciful and compassionate to forgive sin. All sin is unto death but Jesus died for our sins so that we can live in the presence of God for eternity. There are certain circumstances where God may cut one's life short due to a certain persistent sinful lifestyle. Even then God forgives sin though He may end your physical life on earth.
There are certain circumstances where God may cut one's life short due to a certain persistent sinful lifestyle. Even then God forgives sin though He may end your physical life on earth.[/QUOTE]
This is an interesting comment I never saw this. The closest scripture to support this would be Moses. Not so much as a lifestyle but one sin was enough to take him home
Thanks bro
God Bless
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
#8
What is wilful sin?
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Is this the sin unto death?
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Thanks
I would put sinful actions into various groupings
1. Emotional compulsion - a situation repeats and leads one to sinful behaviour
2. Chosen action - by ones will a sinful deed is going to be committed
3. Unexpected action - a situation comes about, and a sinful action results but is not contemplated

Wilful sin to my mind, is a chosen sinful action that is continued with no desire to change or stop
continuing in the behaviour.

This distinguishes things from addictive behaviour, conditional behaviour, in built cycles of response.
So Judas is a prime example of such sin. In the face of everything, he freely chose to betray Jesus.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
38,492
14,942
113
67
Tennessee
#9
There are certain circumstances where God may cut one's life short due to a certain persistent sinful lifestyle. Even then God forgives sin though He may end your physical life on earth.
This is an interesting comment I never saw this. The closest scripture to support this would be Moses. Not so much as a lifestyle but one sin was enough to take him home
Thanks bro
God Bless[/QUOTE]
Yes, Moses struck the rock twice contrary to what God had instructed him to do and for this, although he was allowed to see the promised land he was not permitted to enter into it at that time. The true promised land is when those that are saved will spend eternity with God. Interesting, even though Moses was perfectly healthy the day that he died he was 120 years old. This is the upper limit that man is allowed to live in this present age with the typical age of death at three score and ten (70 years) which is about the average lifespan today. The Lord himself buried Moses and the location of burial is known only by God. Afterwards Moses went to heaven as noted in the NT along with Elijah when Jesus was transfigured.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
#10
This is an interesting comment I never saw this. The closest scripture to support this would be Moses. Not so much as a lifestyle but one sin was enough to take him home
Thanks bro
God Bless

Yes, Moses struck the rock twice contrary to what God had instructed him to do and for this, although he was allowed to see the promised land he was not permitted to enter into it at that time. The true promised land is when those that are saved will spend eternity with God. Interesting, even though Moses was perfectly healthy the day that he died he was 120 years old. This is the upper limit that man is allowed to live in this present age with the typical age of death at three score and ten (70 years) which is about the average lifespan today. The Lord himself buried Moses and the location of burial is known only by God. Afterwards Moses went to heaven as noted in the NT along with Elijah when Jesus was transfigured.
Hi tourist,

On the point of Moses. I have heard people saying it was him striking the rock twice, but I think it is because
the Lord provided a way of blessing to answer the need for water and Moses said
"Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?" Num 20:10

Moses normally says something like, "The Lord has heard you call, and in His Holiness and love provided an answer
to your needs"

Instead it is, Israel - you rebels we - Moses/Aaron are providing water, not the Lord.

It is the only time I have seen Moses take this approach and leave the Lords command out of it.
He was commanded just to speak to the rock, no more no less.

So I do not see striking the rock twice as being relevant. I am wondering at your thoughts on this
in passing. :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
33,356
11,408
113
#11
Hi tourist,

On the point of Moses. I have heard people saying it was him striking the rock twice, but I think it is because
the Lord provided a way of blessing to answer the need for water and Moses said
"Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?" Num 20:10

Moses normally says something like, "The Lord has heard you call, and in His Holiness and love provided an answer
to your needs"

Instead it is, Israel - you rebels we - Moses/Aaron are providing water, not the Lord.

It is the only time I have seen Moses take this approach and leave the Lords command out of it.
He was commanded just to speak to the rock, no more no less.

So I do not see striking the rock twice as being relevant. I am wondering at your thoughts on this
in passing. :)
You bring up an important point - thanks! - but striking is certainly different than speaking to..

Here's the passage

Numbers 20:8-13
"Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink." So Moses took the staff from the LORD's presence, just as He commanded him. He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock and Moses said to them, "Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?" Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank. But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not trust in Me enough to honor Me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them." These were the waters of Meribah, where the Israelites quarreled with the LORD and where He was proved holy among them.


God reproaches Moses and calls it unbelief, distrust - why?
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
289
64
28
#12
I would put sinful actions into various groupings
1. Emotional compulsion - a situation repeats and leads one to sinful behaviour
2. Chosen action - by ones will a sinful deed is going to be committed
3. Unexpected action - a situation comes about, and a sinful action results but is not contemplated

Wilful sin to my mind, is a chosen sinful action that is continued with no desire to change or stop
continuing in the behaviour.

This distinguishes things from addictive behaviour, conditional behaviour, in built cycles of response.
So Judas is a prime example of such sin. In the face of everything, he freely chose to betray Jesus.
Wilful sin to my mind, is a chosen sinful action that is continued with no desire to change or stop
continuing in the behaviour.
This is a good statement
God Bless
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
342
83
#13
Willful sin = David sending his guards to Bathsheba's home after watching her bathe. Then furthers the thoughts of her by committing adultery, eventually murder by hands of the enemy.

David was a man secure in his position in/with God. And he allowed a simple bath with ungodly thoughts become a reality. And once that reality knocked on his door, he was willing to commit greater sins.
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
289
64
28
#14
I thank you all for your comments very helpful
I do unstandstand as a Christian one can sin through temptations, weakness, slothfulness or through pride (stubbon)
And if they were to ask forgivness God will forgive.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Does this sripture implies if one commits this type of sin, there is no forgivness?
All the replies are good but I'm still not there unless I'm missinterpretating the scripture
Thqnkyou
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
342
83
#15
I thank you all for your comments very helpful
I do unstandstand as a Christian one can sin through temptations, weakness, slothfulness or through pride (stubbon)
And if they were to ask forgivness God will forgive.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Does this sripture implies if one commits this type of sin, there is no forgivness?
All the replies are good but I'm still not there unless I'm missinterpretating the scripture
Thqnkyou


It implies, to wilfully sin, you are telling the Grace of God, "in the long run I am with you 100%, but I am going to handle this current situation on my own terms, in the mannerism that is best, and I will tally the total when I am done and we can settle this and be square!!"
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,026
1,245
113
#16
All sin is willful but God is merciful and compassionate to forgive sin. All sin is unto death but Jesus died for our sins so that we can live in the presence of God for eternity. There are certain circumstances where God may cut one's life short due to a certain persistent sinful lifestyle. Even then God forgives sin though He may end your physical life on earth.
A lot of wisdom and information in a short answer: I think I would mostly agree with you.

A few comments:

(1) Hebrews 10:26: A key here is that the verb is in the present tense (as Mailmandan mentioned). I think that at the core you are right that all sin "willful sin" because we choose to sin. But here the idea is the person who ongoingly continues to choose to sin.

(2) I do not think that the "sin unto death" in I John 5:16 is the same as the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. The text literally just states that there is "sin which leads to death". There are some sins that if continued will lead to death. (And then we could debate is this physical or spiritual death?)
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
38,492
14,942
113
67
Tennessee
#17
Hi tourist,

On the point of Moses. I have heard people saying it was him striking the rock twice, but I think it is because
the Lord provided a way of blessing to answer the need for water and Moses said
"Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?" Num 20:10

Moses normally says something like, "The Lord has heard you call, and in His Holiness and love provided an answer
to your needs"

Instead it is, Israel - you rebels we - Moses/Aaron are providing water, not the Lord.

It is the only time I have seen Moses take this approach and leave the Lords command out of it.
He was commanded just to speak to the rock, no more no less.

So I do not see striking the rock twice as being relevant. I am wondering at your thoughts on this
in passing. :)
I am in agreement with you. Moses took attributed the action of getting water to himself and not acknowledging that it was God who would supply the water.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,023
2,252
113
#19
God is eternal, so we may go to the Old Testament to find the explanations of the new. Christ is the fulfillment of the sacrificial system, the eternal principles are the same. Christ replaced the sacrificial system, but oh my, in such a better way!

So if we go to Isaiah to see the God principles of Christ we find: Isaiah 1:11

LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

God had promised that the this sacrifice was needed, and we know it was symbolic of what Christ does for us. So it isn't the blood Christ shed that saves us, it is the payment for sin that Christ did for us. If we go on in Isaiah it tells us how we are to use what Christ did, and if we don't use Christ's sacrifice in that way His death is not of use to us.

Isa 1:16-18  Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17  Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18  Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

So if we don't put away evil as we go to Christ, as we are told, God will not hear us. Our works do not save us, Christ's payment for our sins saves us, but if we don't work to put away evil then we also are not saved. We have not used what Christ did for us in the way God asks us to.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,868
653
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#20
What is wilful sin?
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Is this the sin unto death?
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Thanks
Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

When we confess Christ, and repent of our sins, we should have the understanding that God hates sin, and does not want us to do it, hence the repenting part.

So it is a given that we should not hold unto sin, for God wants us to repent and turn away from sins.

And there is no excuse that a person cannot abstain from sin, for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

But some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning, but never able to come to the truth, and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, and hold unto sin, and think they are alright despite that God says He hates sin.

They say they love Jesus, but do not want to be like Jesus representing good.

But regardless of a person's position they still know God hates sin, and would rather us not do it.

Sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, means that we sin on purpose despite that God hates sins, and if we hold unto sin, then there is no more sacrifice for sin, for the blood of Christ cannot wash it away.

And there is many people that engage in sins, and hold unto sin, and think they are alright with God, but then the blood of Christ cannot wash away their sins.

Any person that confesses Christ, and says they cannot abstain from sins is holding unto sin, so the blood of Christ cannot wash their sins away.

Which the Bible tells us of the last generation on earth before Jesus comes back, that they will be pure in their own eyes, but not washed from their filthiness, and the Bible says if any person thinks they stand, take heed lest they fall.

They get relaxed in their walk with God thinking they cannot fall, and are alright, and hold unto sin, but God said they are in error, but the flesh will not let them see that, and they will not let go of all the ways of the flesh.