Will Christ set up His literal Kingdom on earth in the future?

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Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
83
#21
I believe that Jesus can come at any time. Some believe they must first see signs they believe haven't happened yet. they will be like the Jews who demand that Jesus give them a sign that He is the Messiah.

however the only sign given was of Jonah and how the Temple was destroyed, then rebuilt in three days.

is that literal or allegorical?

Jesus says for us to be AWAKE and not ASLEEP. He tells us to buy from Him oil for our lamps and salve for our eyes so we might see the world as it is and not as we wished it were. He tells us to work in the good works He saved and created us to do.

He tells us to be of ONE mind, ONE spirit for we are joined as ONE body to glorify Him.

whether you believe that Revelation 20 thousand years are literal or symbolic matters only in how that influences how you live your life now.

do you seek signs of when Jesus returns and chase after one report and another.

or do you do as Jesus teaches and feed the hungry, clothe the poor, visit the orphans and prisoners, care for the widows?

what is our religion truly worth?

is it gold tested in the fire, or is it just hay tossed too and fro by the wind to be burnt up as chaff?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,055
36
48
#22
The "1000 years" is a symbolic number not meant to be taken literally, it represents the rule on earth through Christ seated in the heavenlies of the 144,000 first fruits of the book of revelation that were being called into the gospel in the 1st century AD:

James 1:1 James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.

Christ entered the kingdom at death and was and is still seated at the right hand of the Father - the kingdom is his glory and this is the time that Israel was redeemed (that is the believing of the 12 tribes):

(Luke 24:21 KJV) But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

The above two people had the same view of the kingdom and the redemption of Israel, that it would consist of a literal kingdom on earth.

Luke 24:25 And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!

Luke 24:26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?”

Luke 24:27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Mark 10:37 They said to Him, “Grant that we may sit, one on Your right and one on Your left, in Your glory.


It's plain from the statements in Mark that they wanted to rule with Christ in his kingdom, in other words his glory.

Now according to our futurist literal kingdom promoters Christ has been sitting around "up there" waiting for his kingdom/glory to be established rather than accepting that the kingdom does not come with observation or of this world and was established after his death and ascension:

Luke 17:20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”
I have found out that it is very hard to allegorize numbers as in 1000 years. If we did then we could allegorize the 70 Years of Captivity by Babylon and then the 490 years under Egyptian bondage. Perhaps we could do away with the 69 weeks Daniel spoke of which resulted in the 173,880 days from commandment to restore and build Jerusalem was given by Artaxerxes Longimanus on March 14, 445 B.C.. Jesus would not have shown up on that exact day riding into Jerusalem fulfilling several prophecies. Oh, what about the 7 days it took for creation.....



I guess all the numbers in the Bible are just allegorizations.....and God's word is not worth anything??????????? Good luck with that at Judgement Day.
 
Mar 14, 2011
52,517
979
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#23
The new heaven and earth come after the 1000 year reign on earth. People are punished because of sin in the thousand year reign, because they did not go to Jerusalem and worship the king. That is not eternity future. That is still a time on this earth.

Zech 14:
[FONT=&quot]And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.[/FONT]
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,055
36
48
#24
no only the sections that God says are allegory. i actually take most of it literally. like there will be a literal NEW heaven and NEW earth and that isn't just figurative language.

also i believe Jesus will LITERALLY come back and destroy this world and cast Satan into the fiery pit.

i have found the mistake most people make on forums is to group anyone that doesn't agree with their thoughts as "them" and assume that "they" all believe the same things.

However its a false assumption. Just because we agree on certain points of theology, doesn't mean we don't have points of disagreement.

this isn't a salvation issue for me.

it comes down to: how does what you believe cause you to live your life NOW?

does it free you to be more like Christ or does it cause fear or pride or laziness?

Don't believe I said anything about salvation being a part of it....You did state that "only the sections that God says are allegory" Can you elaborate on that?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,055
36
48
#25
I believe that Jesus can come at any time. Some believe they must first see signs they believe haven't happened yet. they will be like the Jews who demand that Jesus give them a sign that He is the Messiah.

however the only sign given was of Jonah and how the Temple was destroyed, then rebuilt in three days.

is that literal or allegorical?

Jesus says for us to be AWAKE and not ASLEEP. He tells us to buy from Him oil for our lamps and salve for our eyes so we might see the world as it is and not as we wished it were. He tells us to work in the good works He saved and created us to do.

He tells us to be of ONE mind, ONE spirit for we are joined as ONE body to glorify Him.

whether you believe that Revelation 20 thousand years are literal or symbolic matters only in how that influences how you live your life now.

do you seek signs of when Jesus returns and chase after one report and another.

or do you do as Jesus teaches and feed the hungry, clothe the poor, visit the orphans and prisoners, care for the widows?

what is our religion truly worth?

is it gold tested in the fire, or is it just hay tossed too and fro by the wind to be burnt up as chaff?
I too believe that Jesus could come at anytime to collect HIS Bride....... The 2nd advent you speak of has many prophecies that has to happen before Jesus returns to take charge of the Earth or for the Millennium to happen.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
83
#26
one question EG, cuz i know you love me and will answer honestly:

is this passage past, present or future:

Zech 13

7“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd,
against the man who stands next to me,”
declares the LORD of hosts.
“Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered;
I will turn my hand against the little ones.
8In the whole land, declares the LORD,
two thirds shall be cut off and perish,
and one third shall be left alive.
9And I will put this third into the fire,
and refine them as one refines silver,
and test them as gold is tested.
They will call upon my name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people’;
and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
83
#27
I too believe that Jesus could come at anytime to collect HIS Bride....... The 2nd advent you speak of has many prophecies that has to happen before Jesus returns to take charge of the Earth or for the Millennium to happen.
I don't believe in the rapture or the earthly millenial reign, but not sure if we can talk about why without folks getting nasty.

i typically walk away from conversations that degrade into insults.

just know i have seen "proof text" for the theory of Eschatology for both the rapture and the millenial kingdom and don't agree with the interpretation of those scriptures. though i do understand some of the reasoning behind it.

If God asked you to endure the tribulations described in Revelation, would you remain faithful?

would you be willing to die and suffer and be tortured for God, if He chose not to take His elect out via Rapture but allowed them to die instead?

Could you as Peter begged, drink from the same cup of bitterness that Jesus drank before being cruxified?

 
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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,768
76
48
#28
is this passage past, present or future:

Zech 13

7“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd,
against the man who stands next to me,”
declares the LORD of hosts.
“Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered;
I will turn my hand against the little ones.
8In the whole land, declares the LORD,
two thirds shall be cut off and perish,
and one third shall be left alive.
9And I will put this third into the fire,
and refine them as one refines silver,
and test them as gold is tested.
They will call upon my name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘
They are my people’;
and they will say, ‘
The LORD is my God.’”
This is a 1st century prophecy, in writing to the Corinthians Paul is conflating parts of Zechariah and Leviticus:

2 Cor 6:16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
“I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,055
36
48
#29
one question EG, cuz i know you love me and will answer honestly:

is this passage past, present or future:

Zech 13

7“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd,
against the man who stands next to me,”
declares the LORD of hosts.
“Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered;
I will turn my hand against the little ones.
8In the whole land, declares the LORD,
two thirds shall be cut off and perish,
and one third shall be left alive.
9And I will put this third into the fire,
and refine them as one refines silver,
and test them as gold is tested.
They will call upon my name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people’;
and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”
I too would like to answer this passage..... It is about the Kingdom (Millennium) for the Jewish People. Two-thirds of them will die during the 70th week of Daniel with the majority dying in the Great Tribulation (last 42 months) Jesus Speaks of in Matthew.

Clearly by this prophecy, one third will live through this time period, will be given the New Covenant and protected from harm as we see in Revelation 12:13. A comparison is that 6 million Jewish people died during the Holocausts of WWII. This represented a third of the population at that time.....

The slaughter of Jewish people who do not believe (those who do not flee Jerusalem when the Abomination of Desolate happens) will be tremendous and final. The third that lives will rule Israel and Jerusalem and the nations of the world along with Jesus Christ during the millennium.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,055
36
48
#30
I don't believe in the rapture or the earthly millenial reign, but not sure if we can talk about why without folks getting nasty.

i typically walk away from conversations that degrade into insults.

just know i have seen "proof text" for the theory of Eschatology for both the rapture and the millenial kingdom and don't agree with the interpretation of those scriptures. though i do understand some of the reasoning behind it.

If God asked you to endure the tribulations described in Revelation, would you remain faithful?

would you be willing to die and suffer and be tortured for God, if He chose not to take His elect out via Rapture but allowed them to die instead?

Could you as Peter begged, drink from the same cup of bitterness that Jesus drank before being cruxified?

Yes, I know your eschatology as Amellennialism and while I teach that it is in error, I have very few who feel the way you do, that are willing to open themselves to the authority of GOD, the BIBLE as it was written. No, I will not try here.

I have said many times that as I await His arrival for His Bride as I live yet if He does not come before I die, I will die with unrelenting faith in His gospel.

If it be His WILL that I am to live through turmoil that is more horrific that anything known on earth from the beginning until today, then my prayers will be for Him to give me the strength to die as well as the multitude of Saints have before me.

The Bible does tell us that whosoever teaches /preaches a different Gospel than what Jesus has taught will be Accursed. There is no way out of this Prophecy.....One of us, My Friend will not like the outcome...?????



 

Deade

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2017
2,606
575
113
72
#31
Well Ariel, Zech. 13 scripture is indeed telling of what will happen to Judah and Jerusalem right before the battle of Megiddon.

As per this reference: Zec. 12:11: "In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon."

It tells of two-thirds dying and the remainder being tried right before the Day of the Lord in chapter 14. So yes, yet future. :cool:
 
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MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
171
0
#32
I believe that Scripture should be taken literally unless there is compelling linguistic reason to do otherwise.

I believe that the second coming and the 1000 year reign of Jesus are near future events.

I believe that the generation that would not perish before Jesus' return is the generation that witnessed the rebirth of national Israel on 11/17/1947 or 5/7/1948 depending on where you believe it began.

I believe that the rapture will occur at some unknown time before the 2nd coming.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
2,282
112
63
#33
It's pretty bad that I haven't read much the old testament, but I have seen and look at Daniel sometimes, I think it is cool how some of the imagery of Daniel matches up with some of the Revelation. What I also find interesting about the Revelation is it talks about a time that is to come quickly, not 2000 years away.

No Nehemiah6, I don't believe that there is a literal kingdom that is going to be established, here on earth that comes out of the sky, and Jesus Christ is literally reigning for 1000 years.

There are some that may agree with you, but I don't because of my acceptance of a different form of viewing scripture, because I see the Lord Jesus Christ already coming back it changes the whole dynamic of the Holy Bible, which is amazing for us all to have in our hands!

But there is a spiritual kingdom that has be established, the Kingdom of God that is spiritual, and that never ends, that can never be shaken like I shared about in the Hebrews 12 thread I shared earlier, with everyone, looking unto Jesus Christ as our author and finisher of our faith.

Anyone who has faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is part of the kingdom of God, because of their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Matt, I highly recommend that you read the other prophets as well. Daniel isn't the only OT book that gives insight to The Revelation. In fact read it all, most of the Bible is prophetic, even the books we don't call prophets. The Bible is best digested as a whole.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
2,282
112
63
#34
I believe in a literal, physical, future reign of The Lord Jesus Christ on this earth. I look forward to it, I want to behold him on his throne. King Jesus!
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,845
119
63
#35
When Christ returns in the clouds with the angels, He will not set foot back on this earth, we will rise up to meet Him in the sky.
 
Aug 7, 2016
203
7
0
#36
I don't understand, Jesus Christ Himself says my Kingdom is not of this world, yet you say well Jesus Christ will come and literally reign for 1000 years, What happens after 1000 years though? Does Jesus Christ go back to heaven, and everything happens again?

Lucy, Thank you for sharing that there are other books in the old testament I should look into, there are a few other books that reiterated in the book of revelation from those other few books you can see in the revelation.

Maybe one day Ill actually sit down and read the old testament, but I still don't understand...

Jesus Christ at one moment says hey look my kingdom is not of heaven, even says its not observable, yet your hope is for JEsus Christ to come and establish His kingdom on the Earth literally, that will last 1000 years... I don't understand it, probably may never understand it because who I am suppose to listen to people saying that yes there will be a reign for 1000 years that is like a day and a day like 1000 years.

or am I suppose to Listen to what Jesus Christ has already said about Kingdom.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
8,777
639
113
#37
The new heaven and earth come after the 1000 year reign on earth. People are punished because of sin in the thousand year reign, because they did not go to Jerusalem and worship the king. That is not eternity future. That is still a time on this earth.

Zech 14:
And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
I agree with this! And it also says that during this 1000 years there will still be disputes, (which Jesus will mediate instead of war mediating) and more importantly, it says there will still be death. That can't be the new heaven and earth if there is still death.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
8,777
639
113
#38
one question EG, cuz i know you love me and will answer honestly:

is this passage past, present or future:

Zech 13

7“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd,
against the man who stands next to me,”
declares the LORD of hosts.
“Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered;
I will turn my hand against the little ones.
8In the whole land, declares the LORD,
two thirds shall be cut off and perish,
and one third shall be left alive.
9And I will put this third into the fire,
and refine them as one refines silver,
and test them as gold is tested.
They will call upon my name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people’;
and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”
I think it is both! Like the passage Jesus stood up and read from Isaiah.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
6,998
278
83
#39
Hello Ariel82,

“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd,
against the man who stands next to me,”
declares the LORD of hosts.
“Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered;
I will turn my hand against the little ones.


The above is past which is referring to when Jesus was arrested in the garden of Gethsemane and the disciples were scattered. Jesus is the Shepherd and the disciples are the sheep. Jesus even quoted this scripture to his disciples as revealed below:

"
Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'" - Matt.26:31

Blessings!
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
8,777
639
113
#40
I don't understand, Jesus Christ Himself says my Kingdom is not of this world, yet you say well Jesus Christ will come and literally reign for 1000 years, What happens after 1000 years though? Does Jesus Christ go back to heaven, and everything happens again?

Lucy, Thank you for sharing that there are other books in the old testament I should look into, there are a few other books that reiterated in the book of revelation from those other few books you can see in the revelation.

Maybe one day Ill actually sit down and read the old testament, but I still don't understand...

Jesus Christ at one moment says hey look my kingdom is not of heaven, even says its not observable, yet your hope is for JEsus Christ to come and establish His kingdom on the Earth literally, that will last 1000 years... I don't understand it, probably may never understand it because who I am suppose to listen to people saying that yes there will be a reign for 1000 years that is like a day and a day like 1000 years.

or am I suppose to Listen to what Jesus Christ has already said about Kingdom.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Its difficult to explain until you read all the prophets, matt, but when you do, it becomes very confusing. The only way to see it without confusion, in my mind, is to grasp that there are two different time frames being spoken of.

Actually...THREE time frames. 1. Already past for us, when Jesus came. 2. Future 3. Farther future.

The Jews looked for #2. They got #1. They looked for a King to rule on earth, #2.