Will The Real Faith Come Forth!
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S
Kaycie! Kaycie, Kaycie, Kaycie. With all do respect, sister, who has been feeding you such nonsense?! This is some of the strangest doctrine I've heard in a long time. Now, we know there was controversy about your avatar, and that's not really your picture, right? So, maybe you're just trying to fool us now, but, really...no instruments? Even in worship? You say every time Jesus sang, there were no instruments. How do you know, were you there? And how many recordings are there of Him singing, anyway?
You say when He preached the Sermon, there was no choir behind Him. How do you know, were you there? I bet thers's a choir of angels praising Him all the time, plus, you said YOU sing, so why would this even be a problem? Your logic is confusing. You say God didn't make pianos. He didn't make the printing press, either, but you say you learned about not using instruments in the bible...the PRINTED bible. Or was it on the computer you're on, because God didn't make that, either, so be careful what you type.
And do you think God is mad at the composers of hymns and symphonies, down through the centuries? Do you like 'Ode to Joy' for instance?
I don't mean to pick on you, Kaycie, I want to believe in you as my sweet sister in Christ, but someone has been teaching you some very sad and legalistic doctrine, and I don't think it's the Holy Spirit. I really hope you get out from under it, and sing and play and find an instrument and praise our Saviour with all your heart for the wonderful things He has done.
And i thank you for your honesty about this, because earlier tonight I was getting hit by the enemy with depression...an ongoing battle I have sometimes, but reading your post about not being allowed to worship the Lord with instruments first saddened, and then angered, and then inspired me. Who is anyone, man or devil, to tell us how we should or shouldn't worship the true and living God and Saviour. Guitar, piano, flute, drum, whatever you've got, let all you do be done for the glory of the Lord!
First chance i get, i'm buying a kazoo! God bless you, Kaycie.
You say when He preached the Sermon, there was no choir behind Him. How do you know, were you there? I bet thers's a choir of angels praising Him all the time, plus, you said YOU sing, so why would this even be a problem? Your logic is confusing. You say God didn't make pianos. He didn't make the printing press, either, but you say you learned about not using instruments in the bible...the PRINTED bible. Or was it on the computer you're on, because God didn't make that, either, so be careful what you type.
And do you think God is mad at the composers of hymns and symphonies, down through the centuries? Do you like 'Ode to Joy' for instance?
I don't mean to pick on you, Kaycie, I want to believe in you as my sweet sister in Christ, but someone has been teaching you some very sad and legalistic doctrine, and I don't think it's the Holy Spirit. I really hope you get out from under it, and sing and play and find an instrument and praise our Saviour with all your heart for the wonderful things He has done.
And i thank you for your honesty about this, because earlier tonight I was getting hit by the enemy with depression...an ongoing battle I have sometimes, but reading your post about not being allowed to worship the Lord with instruments first saddened, and then angered, and then inspired me. Who is anyone, man or devil, to tell us how we should or shouldn't worship the true and living God and Saviour. Guitar, piano, flute, drum, whatever you've got, let all you do be done for the glory of the Lord!
First chance i get, i'm buying a kazoo! God bless you, Kaycie.
K
I was trying on different hairstyles at hairmixer dot com, but God is my witness that that really is my face, I did not lie.
God purposely made the bible to where you have to dig deep and study hard. There is no private interpretation, the bible answers itself in other areas of the bible. I've studied really hard for years, decades, and I'm telling you the Old Testament is physical (including instruments, the sabbath day, the sacrificial lamb, etc, and these things are done spiritually in the New Testament. Jesus, my Master, also was accused of doing things wrong religiously, and teaching things wrong. They did not believe Him, but He was correct. It is only my job to show you the truth I've learned- no matter what your reaction to that message may be.
It's not the first time others said such things as they believe the Old Testament is physical, and the New Testament spiritual, except for instruments and the sabbath day. But God tells me to rightly divide the word- what's in the Old Testament stays in the Old Testament, and what's in the New Testament stays in the New Testament. He said you cannot obey two covenants at the same time. Under Moses we were commanded to use physical instruments, and under Christ we are commanded to use spiritual instruments. This is not from me, or a man, it's from the New Testament. God did not make a mistake saying He forgot to put the command for physical instruments in the NT. It is only one of the many things that are now done spiritually.
God purposely made the bible to where you have to dig deep and study hard. There is no private interpretation, the bible answers itself in other areas of the bible. I've studied really hard for years, decades, and I'm telling you the Old Testament is physical (including instruments, the sabbath day, the sacrificial lamb, etc, and these things are done spiritually in the New Testament. Jesus, my Master, also was accused of doing things wrong religiously, and teaching things wrong. They did not believe Him, but He was correct. It is only my job to show you the truth I've learned- no matter what your reaction to that message may be.
It's not the first time others said such things as they believe the Old Testament is physical, and the New Testament spiritual, except for instruments and the sabbath day. But God tells me to rightly divide the word- what's in the Old Testament stays in the Old Testament, and what's in the New Testament stays in the New Testament. He said you cannot obey two covenants at the same time. Under Moses we were commanded to use physical instruments, and under Christ we are commanded to use spiritual instruments. This is not from me, or a man, it's from the New Testament. God did not make a mistake saying He forgot to put the command for physical instruments in the NT. It is only one of the many things that are now done spiritually.
Umm, I'm confused. You say...... "but are now done spiritually in the New Testament........" and then say...."we are commanded to use the fruit of our lips and sing......." If we use the fruit of our lips, would that not be a physical act? To be true to your comment, should you not be doing all of this "in your heart", and not making any physical noise?
How does Ephesians 6 support your assertion? As well, did Jesus go into buildings to preach/teach that had indoor pluming, Central heat and air, carpet, indoor bathrooms, electricity.........and on and on......? Seems the CoC may not be exactly following the example of Christ huh?
How does Ephesians 6 support your assertion? As well, did Jesus go into buildings to preach/teach that had indoor pluming, Central heat and air, carpet, indoor bathrooms, electricity.........and on and on......? Seems the CoC may not be exactly following the example of Christ huh?
With regards to the OP. Yes, there are a plethora of denominations, and a plethora of interpretations of Scripture which lead to confusion for believers and unbelievers alike. However, before one condemns the Church today, one might remember that even the Apostles differed on what was to be taught, and how it was to be taught.
The age old argument of Law vs. Grace first reared it's head in the Church at Jerusalem, and it is recorded in the Book of Acts.
As for who is the real Church/faith, it depends on who you are speaking to at the time...........
The age old argument of Law vs. Grace first reared it's head in the Church at Jerusalem, and it is recorded in the Book of Acts.
As for who is the real Church/faith, it depends on who you are speaking to at the time...........
E
True faith is a complete trust (the meaning of faith) in Gods provision for mankind to restore our fellowship with God. namely, the cross of Christ.
ANy church which teaches this, is a true church of Christ.
Any church which does not. but adds rules and regulations, and the equation of man having to redeem himself by means of physical acts (such as water baptism, communion, church membership, tithing, etc etc) are false chruches, and not of God.
ANy religion which denies the finished work of Christ on the corss for the salvation of mankind (ie Islam, or many other world religions) is not a church at all.
ANy church which teaches this, is a true church of Christ.
Any church which does not. but adds rules and regulations, and the equation of man having to redeem himself by means of physical acts (such as water baptism, communion, church membership, tithing, etc etc) are false chruches, and not of God.
ANy religion which denies the finished work of Christ on the corss for the salvation of mankind (ie Islam, or many other world religions) is not a church at all.
E
My dad (an avid baptist) thinks organs and pianos are ok. But electrical instruments, such as electric h=guitars and such0 are tools of satan himself.
So it is not just in the CoC..
They forget, In the book of Psalms. We have David playing rock and roll!!..lol
150 Praise the Lord!
Praise God in His sanctuary;
Praise Him in His mighty firmament!
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Praise Him for His mighty acts;
Praise Him according to His excellent greatness!
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet;
Praise Him with the lute and harp!
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Praise Him with the timbrel and dance;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes!
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Praise Him with loud cymbals;
Praise Him with clashing cymbals!
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord!
Rock and roll baby!!
So it is not just in the CoC..
They forget, In the book of Psalms. We have David playing rock and roll!!..lol
150 Praise the Lord!
Praise God in His sanctuary;
Praise Him in His mighty firmament!
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Praise Him for His mighty acts;
Praise Him according to His excellent greatness!
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet;
Praise Him with the lute and harp!
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Praise Him with the timbrel and dance;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes!
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Praise Him with loud cymbals;
Praise Him with clashing cymbals!
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord!
Rock and roll baby!!
Hi Kaycie,
Even in the perfect worship of heaven they use harps to aid their praise to God - And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth (Revelation 14:2-3).
In the Old Testament, we read in 2 Chronicles 5:11-14 - And it came to pass when the priests came out of the Most Holy Place (for all the priests who were present had sanctified themselves, without keeping to their divisions), and the Levites who were the singers, all those of Asaph and Heman and Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, stood at the east end of the altar, clothed in white linen, having cymbals, stringed instruments and harps, and with them one hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets-- indeed it came to pass, when the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord, and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the Lord, saying: "For He is good, For His mercy endures forever.."
In Ephesians 5:19, we read ..speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.." and correspondingly Colossians 3:16 says to, "..admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." The word "psalm" in the Greek dictionary, definition (#5568): "A set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp, or other instrument)." The root word of psalm is "psallo" which means to means "to twitch, twang or pluck," such as pluck a string of a musical instrument.
If the church of Christ (or any other church) wants to leave out musical instruments in their worship, that is their prerogative, but I don't believe that it's right for them to say that musical instruments are prohibited under the New Covenant and judge everyone else who chooses to use musical instruments like David did, as the angels in heaven do and as the apostle Paul instructed. Musical instruments were obviously considered a help to praise in the Old Testament and in heaven. It seems strange to say that something God thought was a blessing in the Old Testament and is considered a blessing in heaven is prohibited in the New Testament.
Even in the perfect worship of heaven they use harps to aid their praise to God - And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth (Revelation 14:2-3).
In the Old Testament, we read in 2 Chronicles 5:11-14 - And it came to pass when the priests came out of the Most Holy Place (for all the priests who were present had sanctified themselves, without keeping to their divisions), and the Levites who were the singers, all those of Asaph and Heman and Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, stood at the east end of the altar, clothed in white linen, having cymbals, stringed instruments and harps, and with them one hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets-- indeed it came to pass, when the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord, and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the Lord, saying: "For He is good, For His mercy endures forever.."
In Ephesians 5:19, we read ..speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.." and correspondingly Colossians 3:16 says to, "..admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." The word "psalm" in the Greek dictionary, definition (#5568): "A set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp, or other instrument)." The root word of psalm is "psallo" which means to means "to twitch, twang or pluck," such as pluck a string of a musical instrument.
If the church of Christ (or any other church) wants to leave out musical instruments in their worship, that is their prerogative, but I don't believe that it's right for them to say that musical instruments are prohibited under the New Covenant and judge everyone else who chooses to use musical instruments like David did, as the angels in heaven do and as the apostle Paul instructed. Musical instruments were obviously considered a help to praise in the Old Testament and in heaven. It seems strange to say that something God thought was a blessing in the Old Testament and is considered a blessing in heaven is prohibited in the New Testament.
Romans 16:16 says "the churches of Christ salute you" yet we need to be careful to not assume that just because a particular church today (whether denominational or non-denominational) has the name (church of Christ) stamped on the front of the church building that it's the church that Paul was talking about in Romans 16:16 and is true to the church that Jesus established. Paul mentions "the church of God" in Acts 20:28; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 1 Corinthians 10:32 etc.. and there is a denomination today called "the church of God" but we should not assume that it's true to the church that Jesus established just because of it's name.
The "True Church" is made up of all born again believers (Christians) and is the body of Christ - Colossians 1:18,24 (regardless of where these Christians attend church) and is not simply a denominational or a non-denominational organization with a name stamped on the front of the church building in which they attend.
The "True Church" is made up of all born again believers (Christians) and is the body of Christ - Colossians 1:18,24 (regardless of where these Christians attend church) and is not simply a denominational or a non-denominational organization with a name stamped on the front of the church building in which they attend.
K
Quote " Jesus taught by word and example, and His example did not include physical instruments."
How do you know Jesus never used physical instruments? Where does the Bible say that? You know what else Jesus never used?
A pulpit
A hymnal
A pew
A bulletin
A projector for music
Collection Plates
Communion Plates
A microphone.....just to name a few.
How do you know Jesus never used physical instruments? Where does the Bible say that? You know what else Jesus never used?
A pulpit
A hymnal
A pew
A bulletin
A projector for music
Collection Plates
Communion Plates
A microphone.....just to name a few.
G
1 Corinthians 14:7~~New American Standard Bible
Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp?
To know what is being played is a melody.
Ephesians 5:19 (NASB95)
19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: psalló
Phonetic Spelling: (psal'-lo)
Short Definition: I sing psalms
Definition: I sing, sing psalms; earlier: I play on a stringed instrument.
HELPS Word-studies
5567 psállō – properly, pluck a musical instrument (like a harp); used of "singing along with instruments"; "to make music," or simply sing.
Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp?
To know what is being played is a melody.
Ephesians 5:19 (NASB95)
19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;
psalló: to pull, twitch, twang, play, sing
Original Word: ψάλλωPart of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: psalló
Phonetic Spelling: (psal'-lo)
Short Definition: I sing psalms
Definition: I sing, sing psalms; earlier: I play on a stringed instrument.
HELPS Word-studies
5567 psállō – properly, pluck a musical instrument (like a harp); used of "singing along with instruments"; "to make music," or simply sing.
B
The real faith is Christianity and in a fallen imperfect world there will be disagreements that result in different denominations. It's going to be like that till Christ returns.
Safe to say none of these denominations have perfected Christianity. The lesson here is to NOT get one's nose in the air when it comes to other Christians.
Safe to say none of these denominations have perfected Christianity. The lesson here is to NOT get one's nose in the air when it comes to other Christians.