Without regards to reward or consequence?
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I do want to say, now that I have examined this particular scripture..
If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king.
Daniel 3:17 NASB
Hmmmmm, isn't that saying He will because He is able. I want to ask you that privately DC because I do not want to stir the pot but now I am curious. Ultimately, I want to grow and learn. This is why I like the forums. Talking out a matter can really help understanding.
No matter what their faith and trust were amazingly inspiring.
If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king.
Daniel 3:17 NASB
Hmmmmm, isn't that saying He will because He is able. I want to ask you that privately DC because I do not want to stir the pot but now I am curious. Ultimately, I want to grow and learn. This is why I like the forums. Talking out a matter can really help understanding.
No matter what their faith and trust were amazingly inspiring.
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My view.....there are three main statements found in their words and the whole context is directed at the fire.......the key to me is the last saying......note their words....
If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not,be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
a. He is ABLE to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace
b. He will deliver us out of thy hand
c. BUT IF NOT, ..........we will not serve
Sure they had great faith and either way they would be delivered from the hand of the king.........
a. If God delivered them from the furnace they would be delivered from the hand of the king
b. BUT IF NOT and God took them home they would be delivered from the hand of the king
My objection to the above was the word WOULD instead of Could........the last statement made "BUT IF NOT", does not equal WOULD......again the context of the words BUT IF NOT is directed at the furnace...........
In your mind and in all honesty what does the last statement say.....BUT IF NOT <----grammatically, how do we deal with this statement?
God is able to deliver us from the furnace, he will deliver us from your hand, BUT IF NOT <-----we cannot alleviate this and must take this into account is ALL that I am saying......does this = would or could?
I am not trying to argue, accuse anyone of not knowing, or misreading or anything other than as believers WE MUST TAKE EVERY WORD into account before we make any conclusion concerning the word....EVERY word is INSPIRED for a reason and must be taken into account is my point......we must be HONEST with every word, phrase, sentence etc......
And the reason there are so many "gospels", dogmas and religious denominations is because words, phrases etc. are ignored, swept under the table, denied etc..........
If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not,be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
a. He is ABLE to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace
b. He will deliver us out of thy hand
c. BUT IF NOT, ..........we will not serve
Sure they had great faith and either way they would be delivered from the hand of the king.........
a. If God delivered them from the furnace they would be delivered from the hand of the king
b. BUT IF NOT and God took them home they would be delivered from the hand of the king
My objection to the above was the word WOULD instead of Could........the last statement made "BUT IF NOT", does not equal WOULD......again the context of the words BUT IF NOT is directed at the furnace...........
In your mind and in all honesty what does the last statement say.....BUT IF NOT <----grammatically, how do we deal with this statement?
God is able to deliver us from the furnace, he will deliver us from your hand, BUT IF NOT <-----we cannot alleviate this and must take this into account is ALL that I am saying......does this = would or could?
I am not trying to argue, accuse anyone of not knowing, or misreading or anything other than as believers WE MUST TAKE EVERY WORD into account before we make any conclusion concerning the word....EVERY word is INSPIRED for a reason and must be taken into account is my point......we must be HONEST with every word, phrase, sentence etc......
And the reason there are so many "gospels", dogmas and religious denominations is because words, phrases etc. are ignored, swept under the table, denied etc..........
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E
I think people are to quick to look for things they can handle or see, and not in the unseen
John said it is the knowledge we have eternal life, which he wrote his letter to us for us to know we have it, which is the power to keep us believing
It is not works
It is not how good we are
It is not the law
It is assurance of the hope of our faith, in eternal life that God, who can not lie, promised before time began.
John said it is the knowledge we have eternal life, which he wrote his letter to us for us to know we have it, which is the power to keep us believing
It is not works
It is not how good we are
It is not the law
It is assurance of the hope of our faith, in eternal life that God, who can not lie, promised before time began.
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Charlie Ree does it matter whats to come? If we put our efforts into living for Christ now right here on earth. Yes it very much matters whats to come because all that we do on earth now counts for eternity in Heaven.
What we loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven and what we bind on earth will be bound in Heaven. The closer our actions on earth matches the reality of heaven the more Heaven can touch down. Am not saying it cant happen even though you could look around you and think woah thats not ever going to happen. But think of light spreading to the darkness it will just keep spreading....centuries ago it was really only Israel one tiny nation that could be known as holy and then Jesus came...and his influence has now spread to the ends of the earth...and everywhere the gospel is spread and people start living for Him...people come to the light they are not in darkness.
There used to be no such things as hospitals and schools and welfare systems let alone churches where people could gather together to worship Him. Peoples used to be cannibals, not even have baths, and live everyday with fear of being killed or dying from a plague or famine. Families would feud, children were enslaved. Women were constantly abused and seen as inferior to men. People couldnt read. No celebrations...christmas and giving gifts was unheard of. Kindness wasnt valued. You could say all this is manmade civilisation but actually underrlying all these developments for good was Gods love for his people.
Just trying to show the bigger picture here. JEsus wants to prepare us and yes what God has for us is way more than we can ever ask or think...if you ever go on missions you will see what we do here very much counts but its not so we can pat ourselves on the back its so we can bring others into the Kingdom.
As for the fiery furnace scenario..maybe some people think shadrach, mesach and abedngeo were hoping God would help them avoid actually going into the furnace. But they had actually been ordered to go into it. Just like Jesus asked his Father not to go to the cruxifiction, I mean who wants to be crucified and die, really but the thing is God did deliver him by raising Him. He had absolute faith that he would. JEsus was cruficifed...there was no way he could avoid that.
Just as Abraham knew God would provide a lamb, even though he was told to sacrifice his son.
What we loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven and what we bind on earth will be bound in Heaven. The closer our actions on earth matches the reality of heaven the more Heaven can touch down. Am not saying it cant happen even though you could look around you and think woah thats not ever going to happen. But think of light spreading to the darkness it will just keep spreading....centuries ago it was really only Israel one tiny nation that could be known as holy and then Jesus came...and his influence has now spread to the ends of the earth...and everywhere the gospel is spread and people start living for Him...people come to the light they are not in darkness.
There used to be no such things as hospitals and schools and welfare systems let alone churches where people could gather together to worship Him. Peoples used to be cannibals, not even have baths, and live everyday with fear of being killed or dying from a plague or famine. Families would feud, children were enslaved. Women were constantly abused and seen as inferior to men. People couldnt read. No celebrations...christmas and giving gifts was unheard of. Kindness wasnt valued. You could say all this is manmade civilisation but actually underrlying all these developments for good was Gods love for his people.
Just trying to show the bigger picture here. JEsus wants to prepare us and yes what God has for us is way more than we can ever ask or think...if you ever go on missions you will see what we do here very much counts but its not so we can pat ourselves on the back its so we can bring others into the Kingdom.
As for the fiery furnace scenario..maybe some people think shadrach, mesach and abedngeo were hoping God would help them avoid actually going into the furnace. But they had actually been ordered to go into it. Just like Jesus asked his Father not to go to the cruxifiction, I mean who wants to be crucified and die, really but the thing is God did deliver him by raising Him. He had absolute faith that he would. JEsus was cruficifed...there was no way he could avoid that.
Just as Abraham knew God would provide a lamb, even though he was told to sacrifice his son.
God could have turned off the fiery furnace, got the kings to put it out. but He didnt. He delivered the three men from it and the upshot of this was everyone who was unbelieving saw the miracle and ended up worshipping their great God too. This wouldnt have happened if that fiery furnace was just put out or they escaped having to even go in it.
Satan is always going to test our faith and make us go through stuff we dont want to go through, hoping our God will fail us and we will lose faith. HE will not. He wont fail we just need to trust in Him.
Satan is always going to test our faith and make us go through stuff we dont want to go through, hoping our God will fail us and we will lose faith. HE will not. He wont fail we just need to trust in Him.
