WOAH, just saw this while driving over here

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Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#81
As i awoke this am God showed me a parallel to the verse in Isaiah.
God's son Jesus came from heaven and returned to heaven.
He didn't return except that he accomplished what he was sent for.
He did not return void or empty.
But the PURPOSE WAS ACCOMPLISHED.
I think some folks kinda miss out on hearing his voice because they don't realize he is a God of purpose.
He is showing his people things for a purpose.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#82
Sorry, posthuman, but you are mistaken. The KJV has rendered this verse correctly, as the interlinear literal translation shows:

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, ὅσα ἐὰν δήσητε ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, ἔσται δεδεμένα ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ· καὶ ὅσα ἐὰν λύσητε ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, ἔσται λελυμένα ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ.

Truly I say to you, how many if you shall bind on the earth will be bound in heaven, and how many if you shall loose on the earth, will be loosed in heaven.

King James Bible (idiomatic)
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Amen.
It puzzles me why there would be a need to "fix" what is translated correctly.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#83
I was reading in judges 6 this am. Gideon sure resisted God's voice.
It is noteworthy that God said "bring me the present" as the first step in hearing.
This is critical in hearing God.
We offer him our worship in our encounter.
Now those walking in sin will repent in his presence.
Like i heard it said one time " when the plane is going down and you have but a minute left to live,will you be worshipping or repenting"
That is the main key to victory. Always be coming from heaven. From his presence.
His voice is crystal clear
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,524
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#85
ἔσται λελυμένα
i'm talking about the Greek there, not the English written underneath it. what you put is not any different in Greek, but there's different English under it.

so are you saying i'm wrong because of what's written in English there or because of what's written in Greek? my point is about what the Greek says, what tense the words are in that language. if it matters that you found another English version that reads differently, well, what i'm saying is that there are other English versions that read differently. you haven't proven a case and you haven't added anything more than what i have to the question.

there's got to be a reason these other translations word it differently in English. why, do you think?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,524
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#86
Always be coming from heaven.
that's kinda what i'm pointing out about Matthew 18:18

which comes first, man's will or the will of heaven?
if the apostle is walking in the Spirit and says '
be loosed!' did that originate with the Spirit or with the man?
does the man follow the Spirit, or does the Spirit follow the man?
who is leader and who is follower?

and the grammar of the text - in Greek - bears that out.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,524
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#87
Amen.
It puzzles me why there would be a need to "fix" what is translated correctly.
yeah. like the existence of the word "Easter" in Acts 12:4
i.e. "
Ishtar"
what's up with that?


it puzzles me why the major translations in our language have things like this. things that should be obvious.
but what i think is that, just like the pure text itself, there are things written that ought to make us come to a full stop, amazed, and spend time and effort searching out.


for example Luke 3:23, which says Jesus was "about thirty" when He began His ministry.
"
about" ???
this isn't a translational puzzle, but it is somewhat extraordinary that the scripture doesn't give an exact age, isn't it? what, God can't tell time? the day God begins a work is indefinite?? what does this mean!? but it's something that 999 out of a thousand readers will pass right over without a thought. it is like treasure hidden in a field; it takes digging to disinter.


God wants us to 'dig' and uncover these things. "Ishtar/Easter" is incorrect. but there it is in our English texts. why does God bring us into the world and give us a book that has things like this in it? i think, because:
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
but the glory of kings is to search out a matter.
(Proverbs 25:2)
and we also have the reality that 9,999 out of 10,000 read "Easter/Ishtar/Ashereh" and celebrate "Ashereh" and it never crosses their mind that it's supposed to be Pesach/Passover, that the word they are using is the name of a pagan goddess, and it's supposed to be on a different day of the year.

i believe God wants us to search these things out. i believe it is His purpose that they are not all laying on the ground like manna to be simply gathered -- though He does this also -- but the reason that precious gems are buried in the earth and take work to reveal, this is the reason that there are difficult passages in His word, that there are translational issues in our texts, that there are theological conundrums like grace & works, free agency and predestination, miraculous power and absence of it. these things and others are all similar in that they are not simple though they appear to be at a glance.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#88
In his presence is where we interact with God.
His will is illuminated.
His voice is clear.
The prophetic is entered into.
Healing is manifest.
Fear is destroyed as well as procrastination.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#89
that's kinda what i'm pointing out about Matthew 18:18

which comes first, man's will or the will of heaven?
if the apostle is walking in the Spirit and says '
be loosed!' did that originate with the Spirit or with the man?
does the man follow the Spirit, or does the Spirit follow the man?
who is leader and who is follower?


and the grammar of the text - in Greek - bears that out.

with regards to the above and your post 75

I also believe that many are taught improperly that believers have authority to bind the devil and therefore have power over him

at one time, I did because I was taught this in a Pentecostal church even though I am not Pentecostal but was attending because my friends invited me along and I went with them for about a year or so

how can we bind a spirit that is called the god of this world and the prince of the power of the air (Ephesians)

how can we bind something even an archangel had difficulty with? (Daniel)

there is absolutely no teaching in scripture about binding in the sense some take liberty and declare 'bind the devil'...Jesus never said 'I bind you satan'. He rebuked the devil by His own power, cast out demons (who knew who He was if no one else did) and said 'it is written' people use Matthew 18 as some sort of 'holy writ' giving THEM power when no such thing is occuring

the disciples also cast out demons but did not bind the devil nor did they bind demons. they cast them out.

without going into all the detail (you already have somewhat), a better understanding of what Jesus was saying would be to acknowledge that the authority was coming from heaven and meant that the disciples and believers after them, were actually acting in obedience to the Holy Spirit and not commanding or binding anything of their own accord

Jesus was not giving them power to enact in their own authority and heaven would follow suit. the opposite is actually occurring

so Ephesians 6: 10-18

there has been so much false information regarding how to deal with spiritual warfare ie. oppression etc...that actually resolves nothing IMO and probably confuses many

I am also persuaded that those who believe they are binding something will continue to believe they are binding something without acknowledging that for all their efforts, the devil is still, at this time, the prince of the power of the air
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#90
I notice there are 2 kinds.
Individual and corporate ( worshipping with other sold out believers).
The corporate, to me, is the most powerful.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,969
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#91
I always wondered what was meant by " my wordd will not RETURN void.
This was just answered from heaven as i was praying and driving.
It has to do with definitive authoritive prayer,as in praying for a need or someones healing. ( maybe anything for that matter)

When you or i invoke scripture, as i was in healing prayer for a man i passed by, those verses are sent to heaven, or sent BACK to heaven.
They are returning to the giver.
The results are immediately set in motion.
Man o man. It was a no brainer all along

Your thoughts?
Actually, the words of God you invoked/spoke/sent, will not return to you, the sender, void.
If you directed or sent His word, then that said word will not return to you empty or void.
We are told to be as Jesus is. Only, we are told to do it in Jesus' name.
This is one way we and the word we send, bears fruit and God receives the glory.
If the word of God is already in your heart, and you are the one sending God's word to heal a person, even as God sent His word and heal them, then His word will not return to you void, but will prosper in the thing, [or person,] in which or to whom, you sent it.
The word of God is similar to a soldier or servant to the one who sent it, as though you are the master of it.
It is subject to the sender because greater is the sender than the one being sent.
If you pray Ps 91 for protection for your family and self, then that word will not fail you but will do as it was sent to do. That is, if you spoke it in faith without any doubt.
It is the word itself that does the work it was sent to do, even as the word of God that was sent to create all things, did just that. It was the word sent that created all things because it is the word of God that is the power of God, even as it is through this same said word that we are made partakers of God's divine nature. Not in word, but in power, for the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
For example, Jesus speaking to His disciples said,
Mat 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
Mat 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

Luk 10:5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say [to it, the house], Peace be to this house.
Luk 10:6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.

Here we have two examples of Jesus tell the disciples to send the word of God to the house and all that dwell in it.
If Jesus spoke it, then it is the word of God.
So if you believe in your heart what He said is true, and you do what He said, then you are sending the word of God, and it will not return to you void, but accomplish what you please, and prosper in the thing, [or person,] in which or to whom, you sent it.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#92
Actually, the words of God you invoked/spoke/sent, will not return to you, the sender, void.
If you directed or sent His word, then that said word will not return to you empty or void.
We are told to be as Jesus is. Only, we are told to do it in Jesus' name.
This is one way we and the word we send, bears fruit and God receives the glory.
If the word of God is already in your heart, and you are the one sending God's word to heal a person, even as God sent His word and heal them, then His word will not return to you void, but will prosper in the thing, [or person,] in which or to whom, you sent it.
The word of God is similar to a soldier or servant to the one who sent it, as though you are the master of it.
It is subject to the sender because greater is the sender than the one being sent.
If you pray Ps 91 for protection for your family and self, then that word will not fail you but will do as it was sent to do. That is, if you spoke it in faith without any doubt.
It is the word itself that does the work it was sent to do, even as the word of God that was sent to create all things, did just that. It was the word sent that created all things because it is the word of God that is the power of God, even as it is through this same said word that we are made partakers of God's divine nature. Not in word, but in power, for the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
For example, Jesus speaking to His disciples said,
Mat 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
Mat 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

Luk 10:5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say [to it, the house], Peace be to this house.
Luk 10:6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.

Here we have two examples of Jesus tell the disciples to send the word of God to the house and all that dwell in it.
If Jesus spoke it, then it is the word of God.
So if you believe in your heart what He said is true, and you do what He said, then you are sending the word of God, and it will not return to you void, but accomplish what you please, and prosper in the thing, [or person,] in which or to whom, you sent it.
Good word
You said that a lot better than i coulda
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,969
145
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#93
with regards to the above and your post 75

I also believe that many are taught improperly that believers have authority to bind the devil and therefore have power over him

at one time, I did because I was taught this in a Pentecostal church even though I am not Pentecostal but was attending because my friends invited me along and I went with them for about a year or so

how can we bind a spirit that is called the god of this world and the prince of the power of the air (Ephesians)

how can we bind something even an archangel had difficulty with? (Daniel)

there is absolutely no teaching in scripture about binding in the sense some take liberty and declare 'bind the devil'...Jesus never said 'I bind you satan'. He rebuked the devil by His own power, cast out demons (who knew who He was if no one else did) and said 'it is written' people use Matthew 18 as some sort of 'holy writ' giving THEM power when no such thing is occuring

the disciples also cast out demons but did not bind the devil nor did they bind demons. they cast them out.

without going into all the detail (you already have somewhat), a better understanding of what Jesus was saying would be to acknowledge that the authority was coming from heaven and meant that the disciples and believers after them, were actually acting in obedience to the Holy Spirit and not commanding or binding anything of their own accord

Jesus was not giving them power to enact in their own authority and heaven would follow suit. the opposite is actually occurring

so Ephesians 6: 10-18

there has been so much false information regarding how to deal with spiritual warfare ie. oppression etc...that actually resolves nothing IMO and probably confuses many

I am also persuaded that those who believe they are binding something will continue to believe they are binding something without acknowledging that for all their efforts, the devil is still, at this time, the prince of the power of the air
The devil is only the prince of this world and of the power of the air. We who believe, have the KING of this world and the KING of the power of the air, abiding is us.
You people seem to be going further and further from scripture or the truth.
"there is absolutely no teaching in scripture about binding in the sense some take liberty and declare 'bind the devil'...Jesus never said 'I bind you satan'." Your words.
I will answer scripture with scripture.

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mar 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
Mar 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
Mar 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
Mar 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
Mar 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Is the devil a spirit?
Then the thing is subject to us as well.
As I said before, I say again, we are the initiators of the act, irrespective of the will of God, just like you act on sicknesses by going to a doctor or seeking out medication, irrespective of God's will.
God said bind before you spoil the strong man's house, so anyone who does and teaches otherwise, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, as Jesus said.
Death and life is in the power of the believer's tongue, as it is written.
And Matthew 18:18 is as it is written, whatever we bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and so on.
Just as the word says.
That is however, only for those who believe. Not to those who don't, which includes the doubting Christians.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,969
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#94
And you though you were writing to believers, didn't you?
One bad thing about revelations from God is that you can't reveal it to others the same way God revealed it to you. So when you try to tell others the exciting things God revealed to you, their attitude is, meh.
this is obviously the wrong group to share revelations with.

It is exciting walking with Jesus. Always forward. He is a forward God. A God of increase and extravagance.
The only backing up is by us.
And you though you were writing to believers, didn't you?
One bad thing about revelations from God is that you can't reveal it to others the same way God revealed it to you. So when you try to tell others the exciting things God showed you, their attitude is, meh.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#95
And you though you were writing to believers, didn't you?
One bad thing about revelations from God is that you can't reveal it to others the same way God revealed it to you. So when you try to tell others the exciting things God revealed to you, their attitude is, meh.
so if everyone is bound, why does the Bible say it is going to get worse? much worse?

didn't you believe Jesus when he warned about deception?

keep binding away. I am sure it entertains the devil no end since demons only lie and will gladly entertain those who think they can bind them

you have alot to learn including that you are not superior to other believers as you try to state in your post above

wisdom does not brag and knowledge always knows it has more to learn

I'm not going to respond to you or you new friend here and others with more knowledge, patience and wisdom have already replied to him

bragging, as you have done, and singling yourself out as special...snarking that the op thought he was speaking to believers...is more revealing of what is going on with you rather than others
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,969
145
63
#96
that's kinda what i'm pointing out about Matthew 18:18

which comes first, man's will or the will of heaven?
if the apostle is walking in the Spirit and says '
be loosed!' did that originate with the Spirit or with the man?
does the man follow the Spirit, or does the Spirit follow the man?
who is leader and who is follower?


and the grammar of the text - in Greek - bears that out.
let me help you out:

View attachment 186850

'shall' is future indicative middle.
both '
bound' and 'loosed' are perfect passive participle.

your homework is now to find out what that means :)

does the Berean Literal Bible have it right?

Truly I say to you, whatever you shall bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on the earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
does the Aramaic Bible in Plain English have it right?

And truly I say to you, everything whatsoever you will bind in the earth will have been bound in Heaven, and anything that you will release in the earth will have been released in Heaven.

there's a reason that there is a collection of English translations that read this way.
this is the way i quoted it back a few pages ago, and @Absolutely you replied saying what i'd said isn't how the Bible reads. i'm defending what i said - because i believe this reflects the wording of what Christ actually said better. the alternative is something like the CEB version:


I promise you God in heaven will allow whatever you allow on earth, but God will not allow anything you don't allow.
think about how that's worded. what it implies about subordination of will. does this seem right? is God's will subordinate to the apostles or is theirs subordinate to Him?
what does it mean to be "
gathered in His name", exactly?

;)
I don't see what the problem is, you just proved what faith is and how it works.
This is written throughout the Bible.
In Mark 11: 24 the Bible says to believe that you have already received something before you have it and then you will have it.
And again it is written in four different places in the New Testament, to him that has, that which he has shall be given to him.
This is exactly how Faith Works.
You ask for or speak to something believing that what you have asked for or spoke to has already been granted or already given, and then it will manifest in the natural, but we are the initiators of that, not God.
God may be the one who prompted us to speak or to act in faith because it's already there in us. But if the faith is not there, for the thing that we desire or ask for, it won't matter what the will of God is, or how much the Spirit moves or prompt the person, nothing will happen because nothing will have been granted or given.
You either have to have it and then it will be given or you have to not have it and then it will be taken away, removed, or eradicated.
Faith is having the thing you are believing for, or not having the thing you reject.
Things are already done in the natural after they are done or given in the spirit world AFTER we pray for or speak to something desired, NOT before.
The translations are correct, the problem is that you can't accept what is written because you don't believe what is written, even as someone who believes in OSAS rejects scripture that says otherwise, because in their eyes, it just cannot be, and so they reject it.
that is what you are doing with this first because it goes against what you believe and so you have to make it fit your Doctrine.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,969
145
63
#97
so if everyone is bound, why does the Bible say it is going to get worse? much worse?

didn't you believe Jesus when he warned about deception?

keep binding away. I am sure it entertains the devil no end since demons only lie and will gladly entertain those who think they can bind them

you have alot to learn including that you are not superior to other believers as you try to state in your post above

wisdom does not brag and knowledge always knows it has more to learn

I'm not going to respond to you or you new friend here and others with more knowledge, patience and wisdom have already replied to him

bragging, as you have done, and singling yourself out as special...snarking that the op thought he was speaking to believers...is more revealing of what is going on with you rather than others
I just gave three scriptures as to why I believe we have power over all Spirits including the devil, of which, so far you have ignored and given 0 scripture to vindicate yourself.
At least posthuman tried to use scripture to prove somebody wrong, albeit incorrectly but nonetheless he used scripture to try to back up what he believes.
I would think a good place for you to start would be by disproving the very scriptures I used, as far as them not saying what they're actually saying.
it would be nice if you would stick to the subject concerning scripture instead of making baseless accusations, which happens to be very biased against me.
So what about the three scriptures I used from Matthew, Mark, and Luke? Please show me how I misinterpreted those, if you can.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,154
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#98
And you though you were writing to believers, didn't you?
One bad thing about revelations from God is that you can't reveal it to others the same way God revealed it to you. So when you try to tell others the exciting things God revealed to you, their attitude is, meh.

And you though you were writing to believers, didn't you?
One bad thing about revelations from God is that you can't reveal it to others the same way God revealed it to you. So when you try to tell others the exciting things God showed you, their attitude is, meh.
It kinda feels like when they hand a statavarious violin to a gorilla.
Indeed...it ain't pretty.
Thank you for your comments.
Truly a breath of fresh air.
I assist a pastor ,or i used to, in a mens bible study. They are all milionaire businessmen. That kinda worked against me. Not whole lot,but anything we did outside the class was tedious because i can not drop $80 on lunch when it's my turn to pay. They agreed to work around it. Well it didn't really pan out well. I CONSTANTLY felt a tension over that. They insisted every time that i go eat with them.
But the major breaking point came when my antichrist frend of 30 years got saved. This was HUGE!!! IT WAS AND STILL IS SURREAL AND DISARMING. I still pinch myself. Well he got saved like me,into a charismatic church.
When he broke and got saved it was at his business and the man annointed him with oil.
When i shared the testimony the Baptists began to mock and lampoon the testimony. I was shocked. I calmly rebuked them.
They got quiet and insisted i retell them. When i got out the first three words 2 of them erupted in uncontrollable laughter. I knew then it was a spirit. I had stirred a unclean spirit.
Without a word,i gathered my notes ( i was teaching that day) walked out and never looked back.
I do not belong with antichrist,mocking antiholyspirit believers.
The epistles were written to Holy Spirit baptised believers by Holy Spirit baptised believers.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,154
2,359
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#99
I don't see what the problem is, you just proved what faith is and how it works.
This is written throughout the Bible.
In Mark 11: 24 the Bible says to believe that you have already received something before you have it and then you will have it.
And again it is written in four different places in the New Testament, to him that has, that which he has shall be given to him.
This is exactly how Faith Works.
You ask for or speak to something believing that what you have asked for or spoke to has already been granted or already given, and then it will manifest in the natural, but we are the initiators of that, not God.
God may be the one who prompted us to speak or to act in faith because it's already there in us. But if the faith is not there, for the thing that we desire or ask for, it won't matter what the will of God is, or how much the Spirit moves or prompt the person, nothing will happen because nothing will have been granted or given.
You either have to have it and then it will be given or you have to not have it and then it will be taken away, removed, or eradicated.
Faith is having the thing you are believing for, or not having the thing you reject.
Things are already done in the natural after they are done or given in the spirit world AFTER we pray for or speak to something desired, NOT before.
The translations are correct, the problem is that you can't accept what is written because you don't believe what is written, even as someone who believes in OSAS rejects scripture that says otherwise, because in their eyes, it just cannot be, and so they reject it.
that is what you are doing with this first because it goes against what you believe and so you have to make it fit your Doctrine.
Earlier in this thread i saw someone invoke the penticostals,chrasmatics,wof,etc as very bad error filled entities and therefore i was right there with them.
I have seen this before,where there is such extreme overreaction that the very verses the penticostals teach from and invoke become "perverted" in their eyes and minds.
To me , that agenda has poisoned them against the very word of God.