Woe to America!

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Jan 8, 2009
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#21
I don't know what voting Obama has to do with a person's faith. I mean, McCain wasn't exactly a good little boy either. McCain believed in homosexual marriage. So who do you vote for?
I don't think Jesus or any of the apostles got a vote about who the Roman Emperor was so I really don't think it is relevant. There's supposed to be some sort of separation between church and state I thought. And what's the use of voting for someone who opposes abortion but then might invade a country on false pretenses resulting in the loss of thousands of lives?
 
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SilentScript

Guest
#22
Prayer and Bible reading does NOT make any sin acceptable. I mean, take a look at most "Christian" churches in America, where members are text messaging and drinking Starbucks in the pews as the Pastor reads Romans 7 and tells them that struggling with sin is normal and that defeat is a natural part of serving God!

Just as the Israelites in Old Testament times rebelled and did not humble themselves before God, so American society followed the same suit. The primary populous were God fearing and acted in the love of Christ (in my understanding). However, this isn't to say that decay had not crept in many years before 1962. I only stated that to explain why at one time, America (for the most part) was blessed as a nation. America was the only nation who claimed to be "under God" as a whole. For this, there was much prosperity in many ways. Not that the populous was "perfect" or without blame.

The point is that America has turned away from God and embraced the traditions of man above God's Holy Word (living Word).
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#23
I have a theory. Given that America was founded upon the concept of freedom, as far as I understand it. And that many fled from war-torn Europe to American to escape the religious-fueled violence between catholics and protestants.

Do you think that this environment in America and concept of "freedom" has resulted in a prime breeding ground for various cults, sects, heresies and such? That perhaps would not have occurred if there were strict governmental regimes of religious control as existed in Europe?

America was not founded as a theocracy (as far as I understand it), yet many American Christians seem to treat it as such or want it to be so?

If America is founded on the principle of freedom. Obviously, it can go either way, the freedom to be very good, or the freedom to be very bad.What sort of controls are existing to prevent America's freedom being turned into "very bad"?
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#24
What sort of controls are existing to prevent America's freedom being turned into "very bad"?
We have already seen the effects of what happens when people are left to their own devices, with the recent economic collapse. This may have been prevented if there were tighter controls over what was happening.

Could it be that the same thing may happen on a moral scale? Perhaps this could be prevented, by curbing the definition of "freedom" a little. Which is what most Christians want to happen anyway it seems, if they want gay marriage and abortion etc, to be banned. Yet under the banner of "freedom", many may see it as a "right" to marry who they want, and abort whenever they want.
 
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Ancilla

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#25
I don't know what voting Obama has to do with a person's faith. I mean, McCain wasn't exactly a good little boy either. McCain believed in homosexual marriage. So who do you vote for?
Who do you vote for? Well if you're into family values, how about the man who believes in gay marriage but is still married to his first wife??? Not only does McCain believe in homosexual marriage, he left his wheelchair bound wife for a yougner woman. That to me is so much less ok than gay marriage. Yes, I realize that she was a swimsuit model when he married her and the surgery she had caused her to loose height and put on weight and he probably thought "This is NOT the woman I married" and so he went to look for somone who fit the orignal idea of a wife. Ok, please exuse my sacrasam. I just find this so infurating that Christians care more about somone's views on homosexuality than adultery. See, the reason why this gets me so fired up is that I see non-Christians looking at this kind of thing and seeing Christians as hypocritical. My parents have been married since 1972 and they have seen a lot of their friends' marriages break up. There was one marriage where the wife came out as a lesbian, but the majority fell apart because of adultery, and it was overwhelmingly the man leaving the woman. One couple they know moved to Texas because the pay was higher and the taxes were lower (talk about mistake number one, hey?). Well, the husband eventually found a younger woman (and there are plenty of young women in the world happy to sleep with a heart surgon) and he left his wife. She waited tables to put him through med school and then gave up her career to raise his kids but when he wants to leave her, in Texas, he doesn't owe her anything. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a job when you've put your career on hold for a couple of decades? Do you think her daughter will be willing to give up her career for a family when she saw where that got her mom? This kind of thing happens a lot A LOT A LOT A LOT. This is such a huge threat to marriage, and notice it doesn't involve any homosexuality??? Like, I realize that Christians agree that adultery is wrong, but when it comes to voting, if a politiican is against abortion and homosexuality, they get the Christians stamp of approval, even if they've broken the "in sickness and in health... forsaking all others" that they took before God and man. Do you see what I mean by people thinking that Christians are hypocirical??

And what's the use of voting for someone who opposes abortion but then might invade a country on false pretenses resulting in the loss of thousands of lives?
You know, this issue gets me so much, I almost want to bring up the fact that abortion it's taking a life, but it's mostly white, middle class American lives. Think about about the demographic that gets an abortion in the USA. They're predominatly white, and they have money. And I'm not accusing them of being racist. I'm saying think about how this looks to non-Christians and to non-Americans, and how that reflects on Christianity.

But see what really makes me just want to pull my hair out about all this is that it's not that Christians are focusing on aboriton and homosexuality while largely ignoring all the other threats to life and family values, it's that they are actively supporting politicans that make it worse!!!!! Does that just not infuriate you????

There's supposed to be some sort of separation between church and state I thought.
This is a big issue. I oppose homosexual unions being blessed in churches but I support leagalized same-sex marriage. Why? Well, I'll get to why later, but when I ask people why they think it shouldn't be legal I get an answer that is Biblical. I'm like "I didn't ask you why you think it's wrong or that churches shouldn't preform gay marriage, I asked why you don't think they should lawfully marry??" And then I get this "What's the difference??" kind of answer. Well, should we make all sins in the Bible unlawful? The answer I get also is about how God gave us those rules for a reason and if they're good for us they must be good for the country. Well, Jews honestly believe that Kosher food is more healthy. I've read on Jewish sites that there are actual health hazards in having meat and dairy in the same meal (secular science does not support this, by the way) BUT how would you feel if they elected a candidate that outlawed non-Kosher meat and made it illegal to eat dairy and meat in the same meal?? Well, obvioiusly that's not something we think of because they don't have the numbers to do that. But really, think about that situation.
 
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Ancilla

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#26
However, this isn't to say that decay had not crept in many years before 1962. I only stated that to explain why at one time, America (for the most part) was blessed as a nation. America was the only nation who claimed to be "under God" as a whole. For this, there was much prosperity in many ways. Not that the populous was "perfect" or without blame.

The point is that America has turned away from God and embraced the traditions of man above God's Holy Word (living Word).
Ok, where are you getting this information??? Jim Crowe started in 1875! Ten years before that was slavery! And don't even get me started on the mistreatment of the Natives.

Look, I may be a Canadian, but I studied American history in university and please tell me when this time when America was pleasing to God. The prosperty came from theft. They stole land from the Natives and then stole Africans to work as slaves. Yes, there is vast natural resource and all that, but really, I do not understand how America could have ever have been the only country under God, either claiming to be, or actually.
 
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roaringkitten

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#27
McCain and Obama were terrible choices....They both held beliefs completely opposed to the Word of God....This thread is to ONLY those Christians who voted for politicians who support things like abortion, homosexuality, etc....No Christian should have voted for either Obama or McCain. Which I am appalled that many professed Christians did!

A good tip when voting for ANYONE is to research their voting records to see where they stand....It is completely naive to take candidates at their word because as history shows, many play lip service to get elected, then turn around and do exactly opposite once elected....
 
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roaringkitten

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#28
So I will say this again. where are the Christians who will stand up to God's righteousness? Why aren't we mad at injustice in society? I'm using America as an example. The world too has perverted God's holiness!

"Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?" Psalm 94:16


it's not just murdering babies that Im appalled at, Im appalled at a vast majority of professed Christians' ignorance of such injustices on the BIG scale....We need preachers today that will preach without wavering against sin! America can be healed! Preaching the gospel is the answer!
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#29
I do get a little annoyed, when America is liberating other countries from their dictatorial rulers , the flag-waving Christians in America are promoting the freedoms, the rights and democracy which they are bringing to that liberated country. Fair enough.

Yet on the other hand the same Christians seem to get mad , when these same free democratic processes give them a president they don't agree with (eg supports abortion/homosexuality). At these times, they'd call their President the anti-Christ or whatever.

I see a direct conflict between patriotic belief in the freedoms and rights which America is known for, and the Christian values which a lot of Christians desire in their government (eg anti-abortion, anti-homosexual). But I don't think you can have it both ways unless America becomes more of a theocracy. You can't have the sort of democracy, freedom and rights which America is known for, without your Christian beliefs imposing on the freedoms and rights of non-Christians. Are these non-Christians somehow less America for voting for someone who does support abortion and homosexuality? Or aren't they simply using their democratic freedoms and rights which most American Christians seem to aspire to? So why complain about it?
 
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Ancilla

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#30
Well, here's the thing. Democracy is very much not in the Bible. But it's not in there because it wasn't... [I reluctantly use the word] "possible," not because God necessarily thinks the the alternatives are any better. I think we as Christians love democracy because it is the most resistant to corruption, and corruption is sinful and leads to all kinds of other sins. Like, if you look at the countries on the high and low ends of the corruption index, it's no surprise that the least corrupt countreis are democracies with high voter turnout. But here's the thing: if true followers of Jesus are in the minority, and a majority is needed for election... you know? I mean, Bush appealed (and I don't know why) to Christians, but he also had to appeal to big oil, Jews, war hawks, gun owners and people who like it when the government executes people who were accused of murder but did not get a fair trial. Oh, and people who make over... what was it? 120K a year? Or was it 200K? Or more???

Anyway, the point is, I often wonder who would Jesus have voted for if he was an American in 2000 and 2004, and I'm really left with "Well, he wouldn't have voted for Bush..." But would have voted for Bush's opponents? Would he have abstained? Is that the best idea??? It's hard to say.
 
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Ancilla

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#31
Ok, just a quick reminder. Just because you vote for someone does not mean you support everything they stand for. If I were American I would have voted (and passionatly campainged for) Obama. But, I heard he support capital punishment, which as a Christian is something that I obviously oppose. It's all about... I don't know, I'll finish this tomorrow.
 
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SilentScript

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#32
Ok, where are you getting this information???
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en...ts=6HmOXQG4mJ&sig=UmXjFF9TCOX2OvmfS1ELfca-oaU

This link will take you to one of my sources. However, the issue at hand is not our "information" but the condition of our heart. The one topic most would like to avoid. Repentance is what is essential among the disobedient. America is not alone in their idolatry, most of the world suffers because of this ancient sinful mindset. Love should be the law among us. Our focus fastened to Christ, not ourselves. The only thing of any importance is the vicarious life of Jesus Christ as our reality. Nothing more is of any value.

I seek not debate and maintain obedience to the scripture: 2 Timothy 2:23


 
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Slepsog4

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#33
If every professing actually had a biblical worldview, would register, and vote accordingly, we could change this nation in a hurry.

How much more so if those above would find an unregistered non-Christian, convert him and disciple him to maturity, got him registered and he voted.

If we were to do this repeatedly over the next 4 years, just imagine what the vote would look like.
 
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Ancilla

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#34
Yet on the other hand the same Christians seem to get mad , when these same free democratic processes give them a president they don't agree with (eg supports abortion/homosexuality). At these times, they'd call their President the anti-Christ or whatever.
Well, we want people to have freedom, but we want them to be free to do things our way. If a country democratically elected a Marxist government during the Cold War, would the USA be ok with that???
 
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Ancilla

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#35
Thanks for the link. I saved it and will look at it later.

My question is this: if there was love in the schools before they got rid of school prayer, why did the schools not permit black children?

I mean in Canada we still have publically funded schools where they say the Lord's Prayer everday. But does that make us right about everything? No, of course not. Not that I suggest you're saying that, but I just want you to consider that fact.
 
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