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A
I doubt too many men will jump in here. Since the going over the bible
has been done so many times. And also the question of what does it
mean to "be led by the Spirit" and how we test that.
It usually comes down to splitting the group then if you get enough
people on your side...you figure you may as well give it a go..
as if God is democratic.
But its not a matter whether woman "Can" Pastor...of coarse they can.
Its a matter of "should they?" So why are you asking a group about this?
Is that how you will Pastor?
has been done so many times. And also the question of what does it
mean to "be led by the Spirit" and how we test that.
It usually comes down to splitting the group then if you get enough
people on your side...you figure you may as well give it a go..
as if God is democratic.
But its not a matter whether woman "Can" Pastor...of coarse they can.
Its a matter of "should they?" So why are you asking a group about this?
Is that how you will Pastor?
I believe it would be well accepted if you were to pastor women under the authority and blessing of a male pastor. I believe this is the most edifying to the church. I do understand that there is no male or female in Christ Jesus, but we also are trying to be as fruitful and united as possible and promote peace. I do not see any example or words in the Bible that would suggest that you cannot be an example for and pastor women.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
� KJV
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
� KJV
1 Cor 14:33-35
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1 Tim 2:11-14
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
I believe this admonition was pertained to prophesying because the women were being disruptive in the church, hence Paul said God is not the author of confusion so such shouldn't be going on in the body of Christ. Women should be silent when tongues are being interpreted. He made this decree to restore orderliness.
If there is a church where the woman is usurping or oppressing the men due to her leadership position then she must be brought down from her position and vice versa.
Anyone can preach and teach a congregation so long as it is done orderly and to the praise of God. God has used so many people, both small and great, rich and poor, men and women, abled and disabled, for the furtherance of the gospel. There is no such thing as cliques, popularity, social status, or gender in spiritual matters. We are all equal in Christ and can be vessels of honor unto Him. We just need to consecrate our lives to Him, be willing to be led by the Spirit, and respond when He calls.
Acts 18:26- And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. 27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: Priscilla was preaching with her husband.
Romans 16:1- I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: Phebe was a deaconess.
Galatians 3:28- There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
If God ordains a woman to serve in the ministry, who are we to say no?
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1 Tim 2:11-14
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
I believe this admonition was pertained to prophesying because the women were being disruptive in the church, hence Paul said God is not the author of confusion so such shouldn't be going on in the body of Christ. Women should be silent when tongues are being interpreted. He made this decree to restore orderliness.
If there is a church where the woman is usurping or oppressing the men due to her leadership position then she must be brought down from her position and vice versa.
Anyone can preach and teach a congregation so long as it is done orderly and to the praise of God. God has used so many people, both small and great, rich and poor, men and women, abled and disabled, for the furtherance of the gospel. There is no such thing as cliques, popularity, social status, or gender in spiritual matters. We are all equal in Christ and can be vessels of honor unto Him. We just need to consecrate our lives to Him, be willing to be led by the Spirit, and respond when He calls.
Acts 18:26- And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. 27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: Priscilla was preaching with her husband.
Romans 16:1- I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: Phebe was a deaconess.
Galatians 3:28- There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
If God ordains a woman to serve in the ministry, who are we to say no?
K
Whenever a woman accepted a ministry in the Greek, she was no longer called a woman, but named by her ministry. So, in Greek, you would be a pastoress, so then the above quoted Scriptures no longer apply.
I posted the whole argument in another thread, but a summary here is that the Greek word gune- "woman" is not equivalent to the English word. It refers to a woman fulfilling a sexual role.
More to the point, you would be a woman to your husband, and a pastoress to the church. They would call you a pastor, not speaking Greek, of course. If I recall your other posts, let me also add: make sure your husband is comfortable with the calling, as a man pastor's wife must be. It is way harder than it looks. It's way better if husband and wife are drawn together by God for a joint ministry.
I posted the whole argument in another thread, but a summary here is that the Greek word gune- "woman" is not equivalent to the English word. It refers to a woman fulfilling a sexual role.
More to the point, you would be a woman to your husband, and a pastoress to the church. They would call you a pastor, not speaking Greek, of course. If I recall your other posts, let me also add: make sure your husband is comfortable with the calling, as a man pastor's wife must be. It is way harder than it looks. It's way better if husband and wife are drawn together by God for a joint ministry.
R
First off i am going to simply narrow down the why some/many men say these things..
1)many in my opinion fear any woman having any authority/feminism or anything that could be seen as feminism..even in the church and use the scriptures that are always pointed to by Paul about this very subject to at least keep what they see as feminism out of the church. When there are other scriptures where Paul sends his regards to women who are being used by God and who he sees as partners in ministry(Priscilla, and others..do not remember them all)
2) If you are asking some pentecostal,all presbyterians and all southern baptists this, do not be surprised when they say no!
3)Womens rights was very much an issue recently..and perhaps you need to listen to God before you worry about what some dude says. I am not saying this to stir up trouble as i am sure at least one who likes to single me out for 'being a stumblingblock' as it was said..but i merely believe there is room for She in Shepard.
May i encourage you to hear what the other side says and why they say it..The United Methodists,Free Methodists,Wesleyans, Foursquare and other churches have accepted,validated,and allowed women to be in Pastoral ministry so my suggestion to you is if you still believe that you are to be a woman pastor to check out on of these denominations. And i personally thank God for my associate pastor at my church who happens to be a female and for her going against the status quo. And not worrying about the many who will point to two or three scriptures repeatedly as if they were the only ones in the bible. That said, you do what you feel God is telling you..trust that you hear from God. His approval is more important than man's approval anyways at the end of the day.
1)many in my opinion fear any woman having any authority/feminism or anything that could be seen as feminism..even in the church and use the scriptures that are always pointed to by Paul about this very subject to at least keep what they see as feminism out of the church. When there are other scriptures where Paul sends his regards to women who are being used by God and who he sees as partners in ministry(Priscilla, and others..do not remember them all)
2) If you are asking some pentecostal,all presbyterians and all southern baptists this, do not be surprised when they say no!
3)Womens rights was very much an issue recently..and perhaps you need to listen to God before you worry about what some dude says. I am not saying this to stir up trouble as i am sure at least one who likes to single me out for 'being a stumblingblock' as it was said..but i merely believe there is room for She in Shepard.
May i encourage you to hear what the other side says and why they say it..The United Methodists,Free Methodists,Wesleyans, Foursquare and other churches have accepted,validated,and allowed women to be in Pastoral ministry so my suggestion to you is if you still believe that you are to be a woman pastor to check out on of these denominations. And i personally thank God for my associate pastor at my church who happens to be a female and for her going against the status quo. And not worrying about the many who will point to two or three scriptures repeatedly as if they were the only ones in the bible. That said, you do what you feel God is telling you..trust that you hear from God. His approval is more important than man's approval anyways at the end of the day.
R
I am sure if people knew my past and where i have come from, they would laugh like a fool and say God cannot use me either. Like I said previously, some here will shoot you down..but their opinion is merely that. As many christian churches have moved past this point of division and contention and have chosen to validate women.
If you truly feel you are gifted to be a pastor, as it won't be easy..be you male or female..then work towards equipping yourself..go to seminary, or whatever else you need to get certified. I thank God my church allows women to be Pastors and this was one of the things i love and made me consider going there..
If you truly feel you are gifted to be a pastor, as it won't be easy..be you male or female..then work towards equipping yourself..go to seminary, or whatever else you need to get certified. I thank God my church allows women to be Pastors and this was one of the things i love and made me consider going there..
A
Obvious you are not expressing confidence, confid ance
comes from the calling of the Lord all legitimate ministry comes from the anointing of the Holy Spirit
whether you are male or female has not much except cultural and ones own fears. Has the Lord Jesus opened your heart and soul to Hiim and has He met you filling you with His Agape to care for His sheep? Do you experience His Agape fully overflowing out of you? Are you equipped educationally to minister in the social structure finacially administratively doctrinally? Prayer guidance confirmation are all thigs that you may be aware of before you. GBYIAA for the salvation of souls
comes from the calling of the Lord all legitimate ministry comes from the anointing of the Holy Spirit
whether you are male or female has not much except cultural and ones own fears. Has the Lord Jesus opened your heart and soul to Hiim and has He met you filling you with His Agape to care for His sheep? Do you experience His Agape fully overflowing out of you? Are you equipped educationally to minister in the social structure finacially administratively doctrinally? Prayer guidance confirmation are all thigs that you may be aware of before you. GBYIAA for the salvation of souls
I have absolutely no problems with a woman being a Pastor, as long as she has this ministry from the Lord, as I would be of the opinion that woman can fulfill all the ministries listed in Eph 4v11-16 (with 1Cor 12v28)...
Do realise that the ministry of Pastor/Teacher is also referred to in the Scriptures as 'Elder' and 'Overseer' (i.e. Bishop in KJV), these terms ALL refer to the same new Testament ministry. As you can see one of the names given is 'Elder', so I do not agree that a young man or woman in the twenties should be allowed to Pastor, simply because they have little or no experience of life and also would find it difficult to minister to Christians with problems that they have no experience off, and also the problems that arise when a young person 'tries' to minister to someone considerably older than themselves...a person should not be allowed to Pastor until at least 30 years of age, this was also the age that an Israelite male descended from Aaron could become a priest.
Quite a few men twist a couple of Scriptures out of their context to try and prove that women should not be Pastors etc, but they are simply male chauvinists.
Yahweh Shalom...
Do realise that the ministry of Pastor/Teacher is also referred to in the Scriptures as 'Elder' and 'Overseer' (i.e. Bishop in KJV), these terms ALL refer to the same new Testament ministry. As you can see one of the names given is 'Elder', so I do not agree that a young man or woman in the twenties should be allowed to Pastor, simply because they have little or no experience of life and also would find it difficult to minister to Christians with problems that they have no experience off, and also the problems that arise when a young person 'tries' to minister to someone considerably older than themselves...a person should not be allowed to Pastor until at least 30 years of age, this was also the age that an Israelite male descended from Aaron could become a priest.
Quite a few men twist a couple of Scriptures out of their context to try and prove that women should not be Pastors etc, but they are simply male chauvinists.
Yahweh Shalom...
S
But its not a matter whether woman "Can" Pastor...of coarse they can.
Its a matter of "should they?" So why are you asking a group about this?
Is that how you will Pastor? ...LET ME CLARIFY...Im sorry you feel that to ask fellow christians is a wrong thing to do..but i believe in Godly support..because the bible speaks this..sorry if gods word dont fit into ur oppinion.. And to how ill pastor..? Im not even going to answer this ..cause unlike u ima HOLD my tongue..Id rather be a blessing and a sweet aroma then a foul smell making everyone to leave ur presence ..but blessings hun u so need it..it seems
Its a matter of "should they?" So why are you asking a group about this?
Is that how you will Pastor? ...LET ME CLARIFY...Im sorry you feel that to ask fellow christians is a wrong thing to do..but i believe in Godly support..because the bible speaks this..sorry if gods word dont fit into ur oppinion.. And to how ill pastor..? Im not even going to answer this ..cause unlike u ima HOLD my tongue..Id rather be a blessing and a sweet aroma then a foul smell making everyone to leave ur presence ..but blessings hun u so need it..it seems
R
Don't let that particular 'person' get to you..they have been known to vehemently stand for the men only as pastors stance, as they do for other positions which can only stand if you overemphasize scriptures or point to just one or two and keep pointing to them..case in point, no free will..huh? These things are merely viewpoints that certain groups and people state are the only way(almost stating as if you cannot be christian if you do not agree with these things) and you will see these things are the most contentious in here
-election/predestination/free will
-female pastor debate
-denominations
-the 'grace only' gospel as opposed to what other say is works driven christianity, which i see as Holiness christian living
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O
i was at a Holy Communion service at the Sisters Monastary here,cause we did not have morning Mass that day,The Sister,Well she was the Community Abbess,Did the Scripture Reading and the Shared on it expounded on it so she was Preaching and Teaching Us and She did it Better than someMen Priest i knew i was Agianist Women Priest until that mornng.St.Clare of Assisi St. Therese on Lieuix and St.Teresa of Aliva all wanted to be Priest they were way ahead of thier time but to me they were spiritually correct proper and right for believing this way amen.........
A
Sweets the worst thing that i could have said there was meaning to say
popular vote isnt a wise way to go...in such a demanding position.
Many a Pastor has been negligent in his duty that aimed at pleasing
his flock. There are times what we need isnt what we want to hear.
So asking opinions has to be for a very limited specific reason.
Furthermore we can ask peoples opinions...im not saying you shouldnt at all.
But....we can be told by everyone we are wrong and be right(rare but true)
And we can be told by everyone we are right..and be wrong(especially these days)
I was right at least about one thing...the division that comes over this
not that it is your fault..i understand you were just asking opinions.
Sorry if i sounded smug or something.
popular vote isnt a wise way to go...in such a demanding position.
Many a Pastor has been negligent in his duty that aimed at pleasing
his flock. There are times what we need isnt what we want to hear.
So asking opinions has to be for a very limited specific reason.
Furthermore we can ask peoples opinions...im not saying you shouldnt at all.
But....we can be told by everyone we are wrong and be right(rare but true)
And we can be told by everyone we are right..and be wrong(especially these days)
I was right at least about one thing...the division that comes over this
not that it is your fault..i understand you were just asking opinions.
Sorry if i sounded smug or something.
G
Scripture is fairly clear , but, with enough controversy to stimy the greatest of debaters:
2 Tim. 2:12 -
'I suffer (permit) notva woman to teach (authority) or have authority over a man, but to be silent.'
Notice that 'preach' is not mentioned in this verse.
Notice, too, that Paul is speaking in 'I' form.
Notice, three, that IF one puts this verse in CONTEXT it does not say 'never teach,' 'nor, never have authority.'
Notice, four, that, in its basest form, this verse, what most like to call a woman-preaching killer, is merely showing that women are not to teach authority over a man or have authority over a man but to be silent. Now, take this in a literal word-by-word fashion: women should not teach authority OVER a man or have authority OVER a man .
Now, this says, in its word breakdown, a woman should not have authority INSTEAD of a man. When a proper man is available for teaching or authority position then the man should be CHOSEN over the woman.
But, again, the Lord leads, and His Spirit in YOU is giving YOU that call of conviction, like starryfields says, go. But, I personally believe that God wants women under men in MOST situations, or, Paul would notvhave stressed this so , so importantly.
Pray ceaselessly, and, I think street preaching best, with the Lord leading, wait on Him, He will both give you the desires of your heart and lift YOU up with wings like eagles and YOU will run and not go weary and YOU will walk and not grow faint.
2 Tim. 2:12 -
'I suffer (permit) notva woman to teach (authority) or have authority over a man, but to be silent.'
Notice that 'preach' is not mentioned in this verse.
Notice, too, that Paul is speaking in 'I' form.
Notice, three, that IF one puts this verse in CONTEXT it does not say 'never teach,' 'nor, never have authority.'
Notice, four, that, in its basest form, this verse, what most like to call a woman-preaching killer, is merely showing that women are not to teach authority over a man or have authority over a man but to be silent. Now, take this in a literal word-by-word fashion: women should not teach authority OVER a man or have authority OVER a man .
Now, this says, in its word breakdown, a woman should not have authority INSTEAD of a man. When a proper man is available for teaching or authority position then the man should be CHOSEN over the woman.
But, again, the Lord leads, and His Spirit in YOU is giving YOU that call of conviction, like starryfields says, go. But, I personally believe that God wants women under men in MOST situations, or, Paul would notvhave stressed this so , so importantly.
Pray ceaselessly, and, I think street preaching best, with the Lord leading, wait on Him, He will both give you the desires of your heart and lift YOU up with wings like eagles and YOU will run and not go weary and YOU will walk and not grow faint.