Woman can't teach in the congregation

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UnderGrace

Guest
#61
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Ephesians 5:

Research the word "submit" in Greek and the historical cultural context, you may find your belief structure shaken.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#62
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man;
and the head of Christ is God.
1Corinthians 11:3
Should read the head of every wife is the husband.
 
Apr 1, 2018
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#63
The way i understand it is they can teach women and children just not men
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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#64
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

God has to have an authority structure on earth so things run smooth, and people are not fighting over who is in charge, the same as the secular world has an authority structure.

In the Lord a man and a woman are equal with no authority structure, for in the kingdom of God there is no gender, for the only thing that separates a man and a woman is the flesh, the spirit, and soul are the same, and they put off the flesh, and have a glorified body with no gender.The angels do not have gender either, but are known by masculine names for they are greater than people that are in the flesh, but people will have a higher position than the angels in heaven.

A woman can do all that a man can do, preach, teach, Bible studies, prophesy, and all that pertains to what a Christian can do, but when the congregation comes together to hear the word of God, and to worship God, it should be a man to take the lead, and he has the floor and then everybody should be quiet both men and women, and after he is done having the floor then all the saints can add to the service, for the man in charge gave the floor to them.

Which when they have the floor, and the man in charge gave them the floor, then they are equal in the Lord, and the saints can add to the service, for will women not sing, or prophesy, or speak in tongues, or say the word of God, for they are on an equal level, for the man in charge is the one that directs the service, not the other men.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#67
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

God has to have an authority structure on earth so things run smooth, and people are not fighting over who is in charge, the same as the secular world has an authority structure.

In the Lord a man and a woman are equal with no authority structure, for in the kingdom of God there is no gender, for the only thing that separates a man and a woman is the flesh, the spirit, and soul are the same, and they put off the flesh, and have a glorified body with no gender.The angels do not have gender either, but are known by masculine names for they are greater than people that are in the flesh, but people will have a higher position than the angels in heaven.

A woman can do all that a man can do, preach, teach, Bible studies, prophesy, and all that pertains to what a Christian can do, but when the congregation comes together to hear the word of God, and to worship God, it should be a man to take the lead, and he has the floor and then everybody should be quiet both men and women, and after he is done having the floor then all the saints can add to the service, for the man in charge gave the floor to them.

Which when they have the floor, and the man in charge gave them the floor, then they are equal in the Lord, and the saints can add to the service, for will women not sing, or prophesy, or speak in tongues, or say the word of God, for they are on an equal level, for the man in charge is the one that directs the service, not the other men.

Love it when people quote this. Lol

What about single women, women with no father, women with no
brother etc.

What about men who are not Christians but where the wife is, or where the
man just doesn’t want the responsibility or has no interest in being the “head”.

Context is everything.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#68
The graphic said: Jesus is the only One to have come down from heaven and returned there. What is your objection? :unsure::devilish::whistle:
Angels did that, too :sneaky:

And if you want just humans, what about Elijah and Moses? They were on the mount of transformation, too :unsure:
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#69
Love it when people quote this. Lol

What about single women, women with no father, women with no
brother etc.

What about men who are not Christians but where the wife is, or where the
man just doesn’t want the responsibility or has no interest in being the “head”.

Context is everything.
And what about the context when a woman is married to a Christian husband who knows he is supposed to be a head, does it finally apply? :geek:
 

Mel85

Daughter of the True King
Mar 28, 2018
10,455
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#70
This subject gets re-opened, usually by newcomers to CC, about every two to three months. At times the discussion goes on for many pages... sometimes over a hundred. Those who start the threads rarely learn anything, because typically their minds are already made up and they are here to browbeat others with their understanding. So, here we go again.

Typically, the context of the contentious passages is completely ignored, if it is considered at all. Paul was writing to the Corinthians about disorderly meetings and use of gifts. He wrote to Timothy about the cultural context in which Timothy was ministering. Ignore the context, and you will likely conclude from the selected verses that Paul was against female leadership, as the OP has.

Sadly, the OP is just more fulfillment of the words God spoke to Eve... 'but he will rule over you'. So many people take this as a command (which it most definitely isn't) or as warrant for male leadership(again, it isn't).

Anyway, I'll make a pot of coffee and wait for the OP to present an original thought. It might be a while.
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,987
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#71
Prophets in the old testament were not limited to men, there were a few women that were prophetesses, like Aaron's sister Miriam (Exodus 15:20) and Deborah was a judge and a prophetess (Judges 4:4). God said that "your sons and your daughters shall prophesy" (Joel 2:28). In the new testament, Philip had 4 daughters that were prophetesses (Acts 21:9). Paul referred to women laborers in Christ; "Help those women which laboured with me in the gospel" (Philippians 4:3). Paul mentioned several female church leaders who likely functioned as astors; Priscilla, Phoebe, Chloe, Lydia, Mary, Junia, Nympha, Euodia, Syntyche, Persis, Julia, Lois, Eunice, Tryphena and Tryphosa. Its also clear that several of these women held church services in their homes. So I don't think God discriminates; "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28). Paul said; "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted" (1 Corinthians 14:31).


Phoebe, Priscilla, Junia, Euodia, Syntyche are mentioned as “ministers” (diakonos), “co-worker” (sunergos), and “missionary” (apostolos) one who was sent out, but not as a foundational apostle like Paul, or the others who laid the foundation of Christ for the Church, and wrote Scripture.

Paul mentions 8 women in Rom.16, and makes comments specifically on the work of five women Mary, v. 6; Priscilla, a fellow worker, (not co- leader or elder) v.3; Tryphena and Tryphosa, v. 12; Persis, v.12). The mother of Rufus Paul calls his mother as well, obviously meaning a close relationship (v.13).

Some use Phoebe as a clear example of a woman deaconess. “I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea” Rom 16:1-2 Phoebe is here termed “a servant”(diakonon, diakono), which is often used as a general term for one serving.

While all Christians are servants, not all hold the title of a deacon in the Church. The New Testament does not call the deacon’s position an office like pastors/teachers, evangelists, prophets or apostles.

Its important to understand that in 1 Corinthians 14, Paul was writing to a disruptive church in Corinth. The meetings were chaos, everyone speaking at once, and in different languages with no interpreters. Paul wrote; "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church" (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). So Paul told the men to keep quiet prior to telling the women. I believe Paul was trying to encourage an atmosphere of learning instead of confusion. Paul wrote; "Let all things be done unto edifying.. for God is not the author of confusion.. Let all things be done decently and in order" (vs 26,33,&40). So it seems evident that Paul was trying to eliminate everyone talking at once because the chatter and questions were disruptive. Even today, imagine that if everyone talked at once in a service, the primary speaker could not be heard. "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn" (1 Corinthians 14:31)


"For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head, because of the angels" (1 Corinthians 11:10). The significance of a woman's long hair is that its representative of Christ (power), a sign of authority. Its a glory to her (vs 15) because it covers her against the angels (Genesis 6:2). jmo.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#72
Angels did that, too :sneaky:
Obviously, Jesus was NOT referring to angels :)
And if you want just humans, what about Elijah and Moses? They were on the mount of transformation, too :unsure:
Do you think Elijah and Moses had bodily come down from heaven, and then returned there? Matthew 17:9 has Jesus telling those who witnessed what we call the transfiguration, to tell no one of the vision. The word used is ὅραμα or horama. Perhaps you can look it up :)
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#73
It is about authority- women are not to have authority/dominion over men. It doesn't mean they can not preach or be used by God in any way.
Authority/dominion is very crucial in God's atonement work. Because Adam had authority over Eve and everything in the world, sin was imputed on His account and not Eve's; in the same manner, God/Christ having dominion/authority over the church, our sins are imputed on His account who is able to overcome sin/death.
It doesn't mean the church can not do anything, all it means that the church can not have authority over Christ. We must submit to whatever He says/command. In the same manner, a woman must submit to her husband as if to the Lord.
 
Dec 9, 2017
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#74
Men are supposed to submit to their wives too :) Theology 101.

Submit yourselves to one another because of your reverence for Christ. Ephesians 5:21
Very true. Thanks for filling in the whole picture : )
 
Dec 9, 2017
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#75
It is about authority- women are not to have authority/dominion over men. It doesn't mean they can not preach or be used by God in any way.
Authority/dominion is very crucial in God's atonement work. Because Adam had authority over Eve and everything in the world, sin was imputed on His account and not Eve's; in the same manner, God/Christ having dominion/authority over the church, our sins are imputed on His account who is able to overcome sin/death.
It doesn't mean the church can not do anything, all it means that the church can not have authority over Christ. We must submit to whatever He says/command. In the same manner, a woman must submit to her husband as if to the Lord.
And the picture gets even more clear, thank you : )
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,635
547
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#76
Love it when people quote this. Lol

What about single women, women with no father, women with no
brother etc.

What about men who are not Christians but where the wife is, or where the
man just doesn’t want the responsibility or has no interest in being the “head”.

Context is everything.
I am speaking according to the authority structure of God, and His Church, the world will not comply, but a man has no authority over a woman outside of the Church, except marriage, and in the Lord a man and a woman are equal.

Men and women in the world like to battle for authority, and control.

What do you think I am saying that all men have authority over women, for that is not what I am saying, but the leader of the Church is all I am saying that it should be a man, and it does not apply outside of that.

Will saints be like the world and promote their own sex, and fight about it in an exalting fashion.

No wonder men and women turn against each other, and be homosexual, for the world has fought over every difference, and now it is time for the men and women to fight for they cannot find any other difference to fight about, then it will be a fight against evolution and the belief in God on a world wide scale, and then it is over.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
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#77
Obviously, Jesus was NOT referring to angels :)
Do you think
Elijah and Moses had bodily come down from heaven, and then returned there? Matthew 17:9 has Jesus telling those who witnessed what we call the transfiguration, to tell no one of the vision. The word used is ὅραμα or horama. Perhaps you can look it up :)


You gave so much love to my posts that I am unable to continue arguing with you :geek:

BTW, orama - "what was seen" - it does not have to be "a vision", but everything what was seen. "Do not tell anybody what you saw".
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
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#78
It is about authority- women are not to have authority/dominion over men. It doesn't mean they can not preach...
How can you preach without any authority?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#79
It is about authority- women are not to have authority/dominion over men.
Authority in the church. I think men need to understand what that is and isn't. Anybody has the authority to speak the truth. Apart from that what authority exists in the church?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#80
How can you preach without any authority?
You are wrong, matters around edifying God's kingdom do not require authority as we know it but a word from God; whosoever is given a prophesy or a word, they make it known and if they don't, the stones will do that work. Remember even John the baptist for all his works towards the kingdom is considered the least. So what authority are we talking about?

A spirit moves through the authority or order that God established from the foundations of this world and this kind of authority was what Paul targeted in his talks. Let me expound one of the verses:

1 Tim 2:
8Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11A womana should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;b she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But womenc will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Adam had dominion/authority over the whole world. Even though Eve was the one who sinned, sin and therefore death is imputed on account of Adam and that's why sin came to the whole world (whatever Adam had dominion over, was affected). This is precisely how God sees and is what Paul was talking about in 1 Tim 2. And in this way, sin is defeated because the church is a bride who must submit in 'silence' to her husband Christ (God) and in this, our sins are imputed on His account who has already paid on our behalf.

And Paul is consisted in this context:

Eph 5:
21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansingb her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

In submission to the authority as set by God. is what constitutes marriage. In a church setting, there's no marriage because anyone in the congregation could prophesy or share a word - but Paul was talking with respect to wives and husbands in the church settings.