Woman can't teach in the congregation

[Dino246]

Some do, some don't. That's fair. However those that do usually (if not always) use the rhetoric of those who are propagating "ordaining women to clergy" and take it that step further as they go about. And that was my very point.

I understand, and I agree that some do this. I take issue when people assume that they go hand in hand, and, like Truth7t7 has done.

 

[PaulChristensen]

God and his very clear words are now the big bully and spiritual abuser

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

I saw the very type of situation that Paul was dealing with in writing these verses. I was in an afternoon fellowship meeting with a speaker. There was a woman in the group constantly interrupting the speaker with one question after another, that became very frustrating to the point where I wanted to say, "For goodness sake shut up and let the speaker get on with it!"

I tending toward the view that what Paul defined as prophesying was actually different speakers sharing what the Holy Spirit had given them for the service, in the form of inspiring and encouraging words, and insights into Scripture. What was happening was the speakers were being continually interrupted by women asking question after question to the point of frustration on the part of the speakers and other listeners who wished that these women would hold their tongues to let the speakers get on with what they had to say. This is linked to Paul saying, "Let them ask their husbands at home."

The situation did not involve preaching or teaching at all. In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul supports women prophesying in meetings, that is, giving inspiring words of encouragement and upbuilding for the other members. So, Paul is not contradicting himself in 1 Corinthians 14.

I had the same experience as a speaker at a conference day where one or two kept on interrupting with their own views, and instead of my teaching session taking just 40 minutes or so, it ended up taking over an hour, and I think the points I was making were lost in the interruptions, one which took around five minutes.

I heard of a speaker encountering the same type of interruptions and he stopped the guy and said, "The lights are on me, and I am holding the microphone, so when you get to hold the microphone then you can have your say." That shut the interrupter up for the rest of the teaching session.

Another speaker I heard told the group to keep their questions to the end of the session, or to write their questions on a slip of paper, and it will be dealt with at the start of the next teaching session. That worked well in that conference, and subsequently in a conference that I led.

This type of interrupting speakers with questions, fits right in line with 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, and do not refer to women speakers in churches at all. It deals with women interrupting speakers with questions they could ask their husbands at home.

 

[Gideon300]

HI,

In my opinion, the bible says clearly that woman can't teach in the congregation. Why almost all of the denominations allow the woman to teach? And I think it's not the problem in the denominations only but in the home meetings as well.

King James version:

1. Tim. 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1. Kor. 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1. Kor. 14:35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Ps. I don't belong to any denomination as the bible clearly says that there is only one congregation in every city. There were no names for congregations with early Christians.

It helps to know the context of Paul's writings. The early church maintained the Jewish custom of separating men and women in the meetings. I know I'll sound sexist, but trying to keep a bunch of women quiet is not easy. From the little Greek I know, the implication of Paul's statement is not that women were preaching, but more chattering.

I also see no justification for women pastors. In fact, there are very few references to pastors in the NT. Making every leader in church life a pastor is not biblical.

Women were obviously prophets. Prophets speak to the brethren. Where? In the meeting. formal or informal. The definition of "Church" is two or three gathered in Jesus' name.

There are women who teach to the Body generally. Joyce Meyer may be the best known. I get in trouble for saying this - she is a godly woman who is of inestimable help to other women, especially those who are hurt, damaged and wounded by life - very often by men. Men can learn a lot too, if they take off their blinkers and listen. There is no male or female in Christ.

Older women are also encouraged to teach younger women. See, the objectionable word "teach" is right there in the Bible.

Yes, women are more prone to deception. Yet there are far more male false teachers than female. Yes, women should not be elders. That does not mean that they have no contribution to the life of the church.

 

[Truth7t7]

The AOG has been ordaining women since their beginning in 1914. Where have you been? Did you not know this?

Thanks for the info, attended the AOG many years ago, was never aware of this, nor have I researched its history

Just looked them up, AOG is an extension of the 1914 Azusa Street Revival, As Were many Pentecostal denominations (Four Square) being one also, (Aimee Simple McPherson)?

Wikipedia: Assemblies Of God
The Assemblies originated from the Azusa Street Revival of the early 20th century. This revival led to the founding of the Assemblies of God in the United States in 1914.

In April 1914, after separating from the Church of God in Christ, a denomination predominately of African American leadership, about 300 white preachers and laymen from 20 states and several foreign countries met for a general council in Hot Springs, Arkansas, United States. A remaining fellowship emerged from the meeting and was incorporated under the name General Council of the Assemblies of God in the United States of America.

 

[Scribe]

Thanks for the info, attended the AOG many years ago, was never aware of this, nor have I researched its history

Just looked them up, AOG is an extension of the 1914 Azusa Street Revival, As Were many Pentecostal denominations (Four Square) being one also, (Aimee Simple McPherson)?

Wikipedia: Assemblies Of God
The Assemblies originated from the Azusa Street Revival of the early 20th century. This revival led to the founding of the Assemblies of God in the United States in 1914.

In April 1914, after separating from the Church of God in Christ, a denomination predominately of African American leadership, about 300 white preachers and laymen from 20 states and several foreign countries met for a general council in Hot Springs, Arkansas, United States. A remaining fellowship emerged from the meeting and was incorporated under the name General Council of the Assemblies of God in the United States of America.

Most of those 300 did not come from the Church of God in Christ. Some of them may have originally gotten credentials from that organization (not the UCOGIC) but many of those 300 were out of the Missionary Alliance Church, some were from Baptists, Methodist, and other denominations that had been asked to leave because of their preaching on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and Tongues as evidence. I doubt that were more than a handful who were credentialed from the Church of God which was one of the only credentialing Pentecostal organization at the very beginning. They were getting credentials from that organization for legal purposes only. If someone wrote that in Wikipedia, I am going to submit an edit with supporting references.

 

[Scribe]

Thanks for the info, attended the AOG many years ago, was never aware of this, nor have I researched its history

Just looked them up, AOG is an extension of the 1914 Azusa Street Revival, As Were many Pentecostal denominations (Four Square) being one also, (Aimee Simple McPherson)?

Wikipedia: Assemblies Of God
The Assemblies originated from the Azusa Street Revival of the early 20th century. This revival led to the founding of the Assemblies of God in the United States in 1914.

In April 1914, after separating from the Church of God in Christ, a denomination predominately of African American leadership, about 300 white preachers and laymen from 20 states and several foreign countries met for a general council in Hot Springs, Arkansas, United States. A remaining fellowship emerged from the meeting and was incorporated under the name General Council of the Assemblies of God in the United States of America.

I don't like how Wikipedia has stated this. It is misleading. There needs to be more information about it and I will see about submitting the following. The truth is that many of those credentialed through that organization never attended or pastored a church associated the Church of God in Christ. They simply got legal credentials through them. And the name Church of God was being used by different groups of ministers who were not the same Church of God in Christ mentioned in Wikipedia. See the following from "People of the Spirit" by Gary McGee, a history of the Assemblies of God.

Pentecostal networking laid the basis for the founding of the Assemblies of God. One influential group came from an association formed in Alabama and Mississippi by Henry G. Rodgers, Mack M. Pinson, and others who were products of the Cashwell revivals in the South. For membership, one simply needed to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit. However, when they took the name Church of God, people easily confused them with the already existing Church of God that had headquarters in Cleveland, Tennessee.2

On another front, Howard Goss, representing a number of Charles F. Parham’s former Apostolic Faith followers, gained permission in 1911 from Bishop Mason to ordain white ministers. This arrangement permitted them to issue credentials under the name “Church of God in Christ and in unity with the Apostolic Faith Movement.” Rodgers’s and Goss’s groups later consolidated in 1912 at a convention in Eureka Springs, Arkansas.

Three hundred and sixty-one ministers, including eighty-four women, joined in the merger. There the faithful traded opinions about forming an even broader association of Pentecostals.3 The vague relationship, however, with Mason’s Church of God in Christ and the shakiness of the association led some of the more perceptive leaders to think of a bolder solution to the growing needs of the Pentecostal movement. Word and Witness, published by E. N. Bell in Malvern, Arkansas, carried the formal call for a “General Convention of Pentecostal Saints and Churches of God in Christ” in its December 20, 1913, issue. It was signed by Bell, Pinson, Goss, Arch P. Collins, and Daniel C. O. Opperman. Some wondered if they would be called compromisers for participating in an organizational meeting. Goss, however, remarked, “From the Book of Acts, as well as from our own experiences, I was led to see that even Spirit-filled people needed some restraint. Just as a good horse still needs a harness to produce worthwhile results, the movement needed a legal form of written cooperative fellowship.”4

McGee, Gary B.. People of the Spirit: The Assemblies of God . Assemblies Of God.

 

[SophieT]

Paul is not referring to a specific verse but to a general application of what the law says about the behavior of women in the O.T. Gen 3:16 tells the woman,

"Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

This has not changed. This is the same argument Paul uses in 1 Tim 2:11-14 where he discusses the same matter of women remaining silent in the assembly which was addressed to the Church at Ephesus. It is quite clear that this is the principle of law to which Paul is referring in 1 Cor 14.

Need a steam shovel and a big tractor trailer to haul this 'ahem' away

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Titus Livius , History of Rome. Book 34
The speech of Marcus Porcius Cato. Cato the Censor, the Elder and the Wise

Notice item [9]a which I've bolded.

“[1] If each of us, citizens, had determined to assert his rights and dignity as a husband with respect to his own spouse, we should have less trouble with the sex as a whole.....

[7] For myself, I could not conceal my blushes a while ago, when I had to make my way to the Forum through a crowd of women.
[8] Had not respect for the dignity and modesty of some individuals among them rather than of the sex as a whole kept me silent, lest they should seem to have been rebuked by a consul, I should have said, ‘What sort of practice is this, of running out into the streets and blocking the roads and speaking to other women’s husbands?
[9] Could you not have made the same requests, each of your own husband, at home?
Or are you more attractive outside and to other women’s husbands than to your own?
[10] And yet, not even at home, if modesty would keep matrons within the limits of their proper rights, did it become you to concern yourselves with the question of what laws should be adopted in this place or repealed.’

[11] Our ancestors permitted no woman to conduct even personal business without a guardian to intervene in her behalf; they wished them to be under the control of fathers, brothers, husbands; we (Heaven help us!) allow them now even to interfere in public affairs, yes, and to visit the Forum and our informal and formal sessions.”


Source
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0164:book=34:chapter=2