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Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
True, but as I stated, there is little disagreement among modern day theologians as to the fact Junia was a female apostle. I am a 4th year religion major at a private Christian university, and I had to write extensively on this topic. Of course, I might be wrong, I admit. Thank God I still have grace!
True, but as I stated, there is little disagreement among modern day theologians as to the fact Junia was a female apostle. I am a 4th year religion major at a private Christian university, and I had to write extensively on this topic. Of course, I might be wrong, I admit. Thank God I still have grace!
N
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
I am just not so certain it doesn't bother some women. Everyone seems to be avoiding the topic of Junia and Luke 19:40, and the various other concerns I have raised regarding 'Complementarianism' and 'Egalitarianism.' Not a single person has addressed the issue I raised of the large decline in Protestant church attendance in America.
I am just not so certain it doesn't bother some women. Everyone seems to be avoiding the topic of Junia and Luke 19:40, and the various other concerns I have raised regarding 'Complementarianism' and 'Egalitarianism.' Not a single person has addressed the issue I raised of the large decline in Protestant church attendance in America.
R
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
in the case of phoebe in romans 6:1-2...the way paul talks about her makes it sound like she was operating in the gift of service or helping...named in romans 12:7 and 1 corinthians 12:28...
that gift is not one of the preaching or teaching or pastoring ministries...
in the case of phoebe in romans 6:1-2...the way paul talks about her makes it sound like she was operating in the gift of service or helping...named in romans 12:7 and 1 corinthians 12:28...
that gift is not one of the preaching or teaching or pastoring ministries...
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
Unless you can back up your belief with the Bible I do not care how much study you have.
True, but as I stated, there is little disagreement among modern day theologians as to the fact Junia was a female apostle. I am a 4th year religion major at a private Christian university, and I had to write extensively on this topic. Of course, I might be wrong, I admit. Thank God I still have grace!
N
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
Rachel,
This comment is not directed to your comment or the topic of the post. But I am curious why you have chosen the screen name RachelBibleStudent. Do you attend a Christian university or major in some religious field? If not, it is apparent you are well versed in Scripture, as evidenced by posts I have read from you in various other forums. Regardless, I was just curious what university you attend/attended, if any.
Rachel,
This comment is not directed to your comment or the topic of the post. But I am curious why you have chosen the screen name RachelBibleStudent. Do you attend a Christian university or major in some religious field? If not, it is apparent you are well versed in Scripture, as evidenced by posts I have read from you in various other forums. Regardless, I was just curious what university you attend/attended, if any.
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
It's good that they debate it today, and if their were women Apostles in Paul's day of the early Church. As it appears there were. Game over! I promise you there was never an Apostle of Christ Jesus that would be quiet. Because they were sent and started churches, and therefore they were also head over them. Since Paul is the one who named most of them as Apostles he is putting them on equal ground with him, and someone if we like it or not has to admit there's a problem here. All's I'm saying is, there are a lot of scholars and theologians and the such, who don't love Jesus any less then you; who have been apart of the people scrutinizing the Pauline letters. Who they are starting to believe by a wide margin, that not everything attributed to Paul is Paul's. They believe 1Corin. was written by Paul, but they believe someone after Paul added this text to suffice some authorities of that day. I'm just trying to bring something to the table here that might add to the discussion. I know what you think, cause that's what I use to think too! O Bull headed Bully Boys!
It's good that they debate it today, and if their were women Apostles in Paul's day of the early Church. As it appears there were. Game over! I promise you there was never an Apostle of Christ Jesus that would be quiet. Because they were sent and started churches, and therefore they were also head over them. Since Paul is the one who named most of them as Apostles he is putting them on equal ground with him, and someone if we like it or not has to admit there's a problem here. All's I'm saying is, there are a lot of scholars and theologians and the such, who don't love Jesus any less then you; who have been apart of the people scrutinizing the Pauline letters. Who they are starting to believe by a wide margin, that not everything attributed to Paul is Paul's. They believe 1Corin. was written by Paul, but they believe someone after Paul added this text to suffice some authorities of that day. I'm just trying to bring something to the table here that might add to the discussion. I know what you think, cause that's what I use to think too! O Bull headed Bully Boys!
N
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
Please don't think I am trying to bicker, but I wanted to answer honestly . . . I have provided evidence to support my position of 'Egalitarianism.' No one has addressed how it is Paul disapproved of women teaching men, but Junia is regarded by the majority of Christian theologians as a female apostle. Furthermore, in Genesis 3:16, God was not mandating that men were to rule over women; he was merely referring to what would happen as a result of "The Fall." Lastly, no one will come near Luke 19:40 with a ten foot pole. I just find it odd that no one centers in on Luke 19:40.
Please don't think I am trying to bicker, but I wanted to answer honestly . . . I have provided evidence to support my position of 'Egalitarianism.' No one has addressed how it is Paul disapproved of women teaching men, but Junia is regarded by the majority of Christian theologians as a female apostle. Furthermore, in Genesis 3:16, God was not mandating that men were to rule over women; he was merely referring to what would happen as a result of "The Fall." Lastly, no one will come near Luke 19:40 with a ten foot pole. I just find it odd that no one centers in on Luke 19:40.
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
The way I see 1 Corinthians 14:34,35 in the context of "Let things been done decently and in order", a woman should not question a man/husband that is in the process of teaching/preaching with endless questions therefore disputing his word, and usurping his authority. If she has a question she should ask her husband at home therefore not disrupting the congregation and not usurping his authority. Now, what if the woman is a widow. . .then she cannot ask her "husband" at home? Has wearing our heads covered when we prophesy or pray in public . . . has that ceased? We also shouldn't have elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls, or costly array. We can't cut our hair but must wear it long. Were these instructions concerning women based more on the culture and customs in Corinth? In the first century, in Roman and Judean cultures, women were generally uneducated and thus were not prepared to always understand the theological issues.
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. . . .Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus . . also the church that meets at their house. . .Greet Mary, who worked very hard with you. Greet Andronicus and Junia. . . . . .Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord.
No, it doesn't say that any of these women taught. . . but neither does it say they didn't. We also need to remember that most "churches" were met in homes during this time. The thing is in Romans Paul took the time to mention these women.
But hey, what do I know. . . .I am a woman
The way I see 1 Corinthians 14:34,35 in the context of "Let things been done decently and in order", a woman should not question a man/husband that is in the process of teaching/preaching with endless questions therefore disputing his word, and usurping his authority. If she has a question she should ask her husband at home therefore not disrupting the congregation and not usurping his authority. Now, what if the woman is a widow. . .then she cannot ask her "husband" at home? Has wearing our heads covered when we prophesy or pray in public . . . has that ceased? We also shouldn't have elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls, or costly array. We can't cut our hair but must wear it long. Were these instructions concerning women based more on the culture and customs in Corinth? In the first century, in Roman and Judean cultures, women were generally uneducated and thus were not prepared to always understand the theological issues.
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. . . .Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus . . also the church that meets at their house. . .Greet Mary, who worked very hard with you. Greet Andronicus and Junia. . . . . .Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord.
No, it doesn't say that any of these women taught. . . but neither does it say they didn't. We also need to remember that most "churches" were met in homes during this time. The thing is in Romans Paul took the time to mention these women.
But hey, what do I know. . . .I am a woman
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N
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
And all of these things would stem from the fact a woman preaches the Gospel Message? Would this be the fault of the woman preacher, or would it be the fault of the person who was unreceptive to the woman preacher merely because she was a woman?
And all of these things would stem from the fact a woman preaches the Gospel Message? Would this be the fault of the woman preacher, or would it be the fault of the person who was unreceptive to the woman preacher merely because she was a woman?
R
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
here is something i just looked up in philip schaff's 'history of the christian church'...
"DEACONESSES, or female helpers, had a similar charge of the poor and sick in the female portion of the church. This office was the more needful on account of the rigid separation of the sexes at that day, especially among the Greeks and Orientals. It opened to pious women and virgins, and chiefly to widows, a most suitable field for the regular official exercise of their peculiar gifts of self-denying charity and devotion to the welfare of the church. Through it they could carry the light and comfort of the gospel into the most private and delicate relations of domestic life, without at all overstepping their natural sphere. Paul mentions Phoebe as a deaconess of the church of Cenchreae, the port of Corinth, and it is more than probable that Prisca (Priscilla), Mary, Tryphaena, Tryphosa, and Persis, who he commends for their labor in the Lord, served in the same capacity at Rome."
"The deaconesses were usually chosen from elderly widows. In the Eastern churches the office continued to the end of the twelfth century."
here is something i just looked up in philip schaff's 'history of the christian church'...
"DEACONESSES, or female helpers, had a similar charge of the poor and sick in the female portion of the church. This office was the more needful on account of the rigid separation of the sexes at that day, especially among the Greeks and Orientals. It opened to pious women and virgins, and chiefly to widows, a most suitable field for the regular official exercise of their peculiar gifts of self-denying charity and devotion to the welfare of the church. Through it they could carry the light and comfort of the gospel into the most private and delicate relations of domestic life, without at all overstepping their natural sphere. Paul mentions Phoebe as a deaconess of the church of Cenchreae, the port of Corinth, and it is more than probable that Prisca (Priscilla), Mary, Tryphaena, Tryphosa, and Persis, who he commends for their labor in the Lord, served in the same capacity at Rome."
"The deaconesses were usually chosen from elderly widows. In the Eastern churches the office continued to the end of the twelfth century."
M
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
nicene i agree with what you say about gen 3:16 but im not sure what your trying to get at with luke 19:40.are you trying to say that God will use women to preach and teach and have authority over men in the churches if not enough people are spreading the gospel? interesting,but can God go against his own word or instruction which he gave through Paul?
nicene i agree with what you say about gen 3:16 but im not sure what your trying to get at with luke 19:40.are you trying to say that God will use women to preach and teach and have authority over men in the churches if not enough people are spreading the gospel? interesting,but can God go against his own word or instruction which he gave through Paul?
N
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
I am uncertain if you read what I stated previously about the decline of Protestantism in America, but if men will not answer the call, women will cry out. If women do not answer the call, children will cry out. Even so, if the children do not answer the call, the stones will cry out. Let us not forget the 'Great Commission.' I do not believe the 'Great Commission' being carried out is contingent upon whether or not we have "the right sex" fulfilling it. We are losing male preachers in the church faster than we are able to make new ones.
I am uncertain if you read what I stated previously about the decline of Protestantism in America, but if men will not answer the call, women will cry out. If women do not answer the call, children will cry out. Even so, if the children do not answer the call, the stones will cry out. Let us not forget the 'Great Commission.' I do not believe the 'Great Commission' being carried out is contingent upon whether or not we have "the right sex" fulfilling it. We are losing male preachers in the church faster than we are able to make new ones.
M
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
i think another factor we have to consider here is what Eve did with the word of God in the garden of eden.she dibelieved it and in turn caused adam to disbelieve it.This may also be one of the reasons women are not permitted to teach or have authority over men in the church setting.Not only was she deceived she also took that deception and passed it on to adam.
i think another factor we have to consider here is what Eve did with the word of God in the garden of eden.she dibelieved it and in turn caused adam to disbelieve it.This may also be one of the reasons women are not permitted to teach or have authority over men in the church setting.Not only was she deceived she also took that deception and passed it on to adam.
N
Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
Correction. Adam was standing with Eve at the time the serpent was tempting her. Had he so chosen, being that Adam was the man, he could have prevented Eve from eating of the 'Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil' had he so desired. Therefore, Adam sinned in his heart prior to him ever eating the fruit. Also, Eve was deceived, but Adam had full knowledge of what he was doing.
Correction. Adam was standing with Eve at the time the serpent was tempting her. Had he so chosen, being that Adam was the man, he could have prevented Eve from eating of the 'Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil' had he so desired. Therefore, Adam sinned in his heart prior to him ever eating the fruit. Also, Eve was deceived, but Adam had full knowledge of what he was doing.