Wonder how many are cursed🤯
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Didn't Christ say there would be a great falling away?
Where did Christ say there is a finite no. of people going to hell? Or, to eternal life? God surely knows but foreknowing is not precondeming which is what Calvinism says.
I don't think hell needs to grow in size, but it grows in population every day. And will continue to till the return of Christ and the final judgement.
Just my thoughts
Where did Christ say there is a finite no. of people going to hell? Or, to eternal life? God surely knows but foreknowing is not precondeming which is what Calvinism says.
I don't think hell needs to grow in size, but it grows in population every day. And will continue to till the return of Christ and the final judgement.
Just my thoughts
Didn't Christ say there would be a great falling away?
Where did Christ say there is a finite no. of people going to hell? Or, to eternal life? God surely knows but foreknowing is not precondeming which is what Calvinism says.
I don't think hell needs to grow in size, but it grows in population every day. And will continue to till the return of Christ and the final judgement.
Just my thoughts
Probably not. But on that day hell will surely increase! There is still no place that gives a finite no. But, the thief on the cross had just another 5 minutes, and he went to Paradise.... so, hmm
None of us can say with any authority who or how many will be saved or lost.
Where did Christ say there is a finite no. of people going to hell? Or, to eternal life? God surely knows but foreknowing is not precondeming which is what Calvinism says.
I don't think hell needs to grow in size, but it grows in population every day. And will continue to till the return of Christ and the final judgement.
Just my thoughts
Probably not. But on that day hell will surely increase! There is still no place that gives a finite no. But, the thief on the cross had just another 5 minutes, and he went to Paradise.... so, hmm
None of us can say with any authority who or how many will be saved or lost.
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no answer for this post and not even an excuse
just an attempt to change the scene
7seasrekeyed said:
well how about that murder and adultery?
did God, whom you call good, ordain that?
is God the creator of sin, tempting us beyond our ability to resist? planting thoughts in our brains that lead to more sin and more evil?
is God responsible for Hitler and the Viet Cong? is He responsible for abortion?
OR
does God redeem mankind from these situations and this sin that leads to separation from God?
if He redeems them, then He never preordained the evil they did which means PEOPLE HAVE A CHOICE
just an attempt to change the scene
7seasrekeyed said:
well how about that murder and adultery?
did God, whom you call good, ordain that?
is God the creator of sin, tempting us beyond our ability to resist? planting thoughts in our brains that lead to more sin and more evil?
is God responsible for Hitler and the Viet Cong? is He responsible for abortion?
OR
does God redeem mankind from these situations and this sin that leads to separation from God?
if He redeems them, then He never preordained the evil they did which means PEOPLE HAVE A CHOICE
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Sheol/Hades should NEVER EVER have been called the grave, since it is in the heart of the earth or the lower parts of the earth. So Christians should not be basing their beliefs on mistranslations (just like Hades being called "hell"). Hell -- eternal Hell -- is the Lake of Fire. And Sheol in the OT is Hades in the NT -- the place of departed souls and spirits (also called "the netherworld". Only the body goes into the grave and turns to dust.
As to the OP, evidently the poster has no clue. No one needs to be under the curse of sin and death since Christ was made a Curse for us. And that is why we have the Good News of the Gospel.
As to the OP, evidently the poster has no clue. No one needs to be under the curse of sin and death since Christ was made a Curse for us. And that is why we have the Good News of the Gospel.
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none of us know. but God - has He not known the end from before the beginning? God says 'many will come to Me in that day saying lord, lord' - does He not know how many?
suppose we come to know Him by deciding for ourselves out of our own sovereign will and effort. suppose Christ returns 30 seconds before someone decides to believe Him, on that day. would He be just or unjust? this hypothetical person is condemned because he didn't choose for himself to believe in time, just seconds away.
does such a person exist at all or is that imaginary? will God return too soon to save all those the Father gives to Him? does God return too late? or does He return at just the right moment? it will be just like the days of Noah and the days of Sodom. people will be eating and drinking and marrying and having children. some will be pregnant, about to give birth, or having just given birth.
how will it be just at the right time, if God is just? 'no man' can number - but God, does He know the number? how long has He known the number, or how long will omnipotent God not know, if you think He is ignorant of it?
suppose we come to know Him by deciding for ourselves out of our own sovereign will and effort. suppose Christ returns 30 seconds before someone decides to believe Him, on that day. would He be just or unjust? this hypothetical person is condemned because he didn't choose for himself to believe in time, just seconds away.
does such a person exist at all or is that imaginary? will God return too soon to save all those the Father gives to Him? does God return too late? or does He return at just the right moment? it will be just like the days of Noah and the days of Sodom. people will be eating and drinking and marrying and having children. some will be pregnant, about to give birth, or having just given birth.
how will it be just at the right time, if God is just? 'no man' can number - but God, does He know the number? how long has He known the number, or how long will omnipotent God not know, if you think He is ignorant of it?
actually from my perspective you were trying to change the subject while i was trying to explain to John that Isaiah 5:14 does not make the argument that he tried to use it to make.
you want me to tell you whether God is the author of evil? nope. He is not.
satisfied?
ok, now, what do you think - does God know who He created?
here is an hypothetical situation - is it valid at all?
suppose you are out evangelizing on the day He returns. suppose you have just knocked on the door of someone who hasn't believed, and you open your mouth to tell them about the gospel, but the second before you do, He comes in the sky like lightning, every eye sees Him, and all of you are instantly transported before the throne.
"too late" -- the unbeliever you were about to try convince to be saved is condemned in their unbelief.
does this situation exist or is it purely imaginary? is anyone going to 'miss their chance to decide for themselves to know Him' because there just weren't quite enough nanoseconds left for them to repent?
did the Lord return to judge the quick and the dead just 2 minutes too early?
or does He know - has He known since before He designed and created each and every person on earth for His own purpose - that this person will never receive Him?
is God just or unjust? He is just.
so how will it be 'at just the right time' that Christ returns, on a day and in an hour that no human can know? what is it about that specific moment that He tears open the sky that makes it the perfect time?
how does God know when to return? does He randomly guess?
right now He's preparing a place for us - how many rooms He building? random number? too many, too few?
you want me to tell you whether God is the author of evil? nope. He is not.
satisfied?
ok, now, what do you think - does God know who He created?
here is an hypothetical situation - is it valid at all?
suppose you are out evangelizing on the day He returns. suppose you have just knocked on the door of someone who hasn't believed, and you open your mouth to tell them about the gospel, but the second before you do, He comes in the sky like lightning, every eye sees Him, and all of you are instantly transported before the throne.
"too late" -- the unbeliever you were about to try convince to be saved is condemned in their unbelief. does this situation exist or is it purely imaginary? is anyone going to 'miss their chance to decide for themselves to know Him' because there just weren't quite enough nanoseconds left for them to repent?
did the Lord return to judge the quick and the dead just 2 minutes too early?
or does He know - has He known since before He designed and created each and every person on earth for His own purpose - that this person will never receive Him?
is God just or unjust? He is just.
so how will it be 'at just the right time' that Christ returns, on a day and in an hour that no human can know? what is it about that specific moment that He tears open the sky that makes it the perfect time?
how does God know when to return? does He randomly guess?
right now He's preparing a place for us - how many rooms He building? random number? too many, too few?
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what do you think, @7seasrekeyed ?
'hell hath enlarged herself' -- what does that mean? it doesn't say 'God hath enlarged hell' it says hell enlarged herself
you think that means more people going to hell than God intends? it's not God enlarging hell; it's hell enlarging herself.
is hell snatching Christ's sheep out of Christ's hands?
nothing in Isaiah 5 talks about population increase. heck, it talks about population decrease. Isaiah 5 talks about multiplied wickedness, joining house to house and field to field 'until no space is left and you live alone in the land' and about the harvest of a large field bringing only a scarce amount of fruit. who is determining how much fruit in Isaiah 5? the LORD is! who builds the vineyard? who sets up its walls, setting its boundaries ans determining its size? the LORD! the LORD exalted in justice says the sheep and lambs will graze on these pastures after He whistles to summon from the ends of the earth distant nations to destroy and carry off the wicked. He's choosing a place for His sheep, and driving out the wolves. does He know how big of a field He needs, because He knows exactly how many sheep He has? or does He just guess & get one 'seems big enough probably' then wait and see how good of a guesser He is?
what are the grapevines in scripture?
so what are we talking about in verse 14 -- did God 'guess wrong' when He laid out His vineyard, and now it's got way more vines than it was supposed to? what does He say? He says there are far more bad grapes than what He desired. does omnipotent God ever have to 'guess' about anything? so what's happened here? is there anything He could have done for His vineyard that He has not done for it? why then did it bring forth evil fruit when He planted it for good?
well, the sheep get a pastureland out of it, in the end, and the wicked are without excuse.
'hell hath enlarged herself' -- what does that mean? it doesn't say 'God hath enlarged hell' it says hell enlarged herself
you think that means more people going to hell than God intends? it's not God enlarging hell; it's hell enlarging herself.
is hell snatching Christ's sheep out of Christ's hands?
nothing in Isaiah 5 talks about population increase. heck, it talks about population decrease. Isaiah 5 talks about multiplied wickedness, joining house to house and field to field 'until no space is left and you live alone in the land' and about the harvest of a large field bringing only a scarce amount of fruit. who is determining how much fruit in Isaiah 5? the LORD is! who builds the vineyard? who sets up its walls, setting its boundaries ans determining its size? the LORD! the LORD exalted in justice says the sheep and lambs will graze on these pastures after He whistles to summon from the ends of the earth distant nations to destroy and carry off the wicked. He's choosing a place for His sheep, and driving out the wolves. does He know how big of a field He needs, because He knows exactly how many sheep He has? or does He just guess & get one 'seems big enough probably' then wait and see how good of a guesser He is?
What more could have been done to My vineyard
that I have not done in it?
Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
did it bring forth wild grapes?
(Isaiah 5:4)
(Isaiah 5:4)
multiplied bad grapes. what is fruit, in scripture? people or works? what are the grapevines in scripture?
For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel,
and the men of Judah are His pleasant plant.
(Isaiah 5:7)
the vineyard and the vines are people, and He is the One who built it, who set its boundaries and determined its size: He is the One who planted each one. (Isaiah 5:7)
so what are we talking about in verse 14 -- did God 'guess wrong' when He laid out His vineyard, and now it's got way more vines than it was supposed to? what does He say? He says there are far more bad grapes than what He desired. does omnipotent God ever have to 'guess' about anything? so what's happened here? is there anything He could have done for His vineyard that He has not done for it? why then did it bring forth evil fruit when He planted it for good?
well, the sheep get a pastureland out of it, in the end, and the wicked are without excuse.