word of faith movement

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Sep 5, 2012
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#41
In my opinion Jesus taught prosperity and being blessed is in part having prosperity. The people in the bible when god blessed them he gave them a lot of cattle and goats and what not. A lot of people will get mad at preachers preaching prosperity but will work over time 7 days a week to try and get some of that prosperity. When god blesses you your cup runneth over. BUT at the same time you can not manipulate God and only talk to him when you want something because that isn't going to work and its not the right way. I grew up in a word of faith church and they did very good lessons and it was really anointed there and not everyone was rich or praying to be rich. A lot of people got healed there, and the power of God was strong there. It's too bad its getting a bad name, but its basically the same as someone against christianity or any "religion" because of some bad people to call the whole religion bad.
 
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Crossfire

Guest
#42
In my opinion Jesus taught prosperity and being blessed is in part having prosperity. The people in the bible when god blessed them he gave them a lot of cattle and goats and what not. A lot of people will get mad at preachers preaching prosperity but will work over time 7 days a week to try and get some of that prosperity. When god blesses you your cup runneth over. BUT at the same time you can not manipulate God and only talk to him when you want something because that isn't going to work and its not the right way. I grew up in a word of faith church and they did very good lessons and it was really anointed there and not everyone was rich or praying to be rich. A lot of people got healed there, and the power of God was strong there. It's too bad its getting a bad name, but its basically the same as someone against christianity or any "religion" because of some bad people to call the whole religion bad.
After much research on the W.O.F. movement, I've found that they, like most other mainstream doctrines and / or denominations, possess their fair share of good points as well as bad. However, the same could be said of Calvinists, Baptists, Lutherans. Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Holiness, etc. No matter how hard you look, you simply will not find a perfect doctrine or denomination without some areas of doctrinal dispute. This is why as Christians we should approach such things cautiously yet objectively seeing as God can and does use all of these Churches as He sees fit whether we like it or not. The last thing any of us wants to experience while standing before God as we give an account of our actions that we actually opposed God on certain issues due to doctrinal pride.
 
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Closemyeyes2cU

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2012
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#43
God does bless people with earthly blessings at times, but the Bible never puts emphasis on earthly blessings like man tries to. The Bible puts its emphasis on Heavenly blessings. Just because you have faith and are a servant of God doesn't mean you are gonna have a smooth prosperous ride through this life. Go read Fox's book of Martyr's.

While God can and does bless people at times with earthly blessings, I also like to keep these verse's in mind.

1 Timothy 6:7-9
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
 
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carey

Guest
#44
In my opinion Jesus taught prosperity and being blessed is in part having prosperity. The people in the bible when god blessed them he gave them a lot of cattle and goats and what not. A lot of people will get mad at preachers preaching prosperity but will work over time 7 days a week to try and get some of that prosperity. When god blesses you your cup runneth over. BUT at the same time you can not manipulate God and only talk to him when you want something because that isn't going to work and its not the right way. I grew up in a word of faith church and they did very good lessons and it was really anointed there and not everyone was rich or praying to be rich. A lot of people got healed there, and the power of God was strong there. It's too bad its getting a bad name, but its basically the same as someone against christianity or any "religion" because of some bad people to call the whole religion bad.
I respect what your saying, and i believe the church your talking about and the wof movement are two different things, the wof and prosperity preachers teach that if your poor or sick that your in sin or you just don't have enough faith. This is wrong, because some people are poor or sick because God is trying to teach them something, we go through trials and sometimes it affects their bank account
 
Sep 5, 2012
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#45
Well the church im talking about is called The Word Of Faith. I've heard a lotta prosperity preaching and not all them say because you are sick its because you are walking in sin. Because we are in a world that is tainted by sin thats why its possible for people to be sick.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#46
People who say godliness is a means of financial gain are destitute of the truth and have corrupted minds. We're told to actually depart ourselves from such people. Instead so many come to their defense.


1 Timothy 6 (NKJV)
4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings[a] of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

Paul was a man in total submission to God. Yet he says he went naked, hungry, and homeless.

1 Corinthians 4

11 To this present hour we are both hungry and thirsty, and are poorly clothed, and are roughly treated, and are homeless;

Yes God will prosper some financially. But we can't say that's a one sized fits all suit for all Christians. And for those who are financially rich we're told...

17 Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. 18 Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good [m]works, to be generous and ready to share, 19 storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.

Now there are those who have a nice sleight of hand game where they'll discuss God prospering us in all things, and that we need to use that to help others. If this point was just left without their sleight of hand rhetorical additions, they would have a point.

Unfortunately you need to watch their rhetoric closely, because they will do a very sly sleight of hand, where they actually do say we're all supposed to be rich with many, many material blessings.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#47
People who say godliness is a means of financial gain are destitute of the truth and have corrupted minds. We're told to actually depart ourselves from such people. Instead so many come to their defense.


1 Timothy 6 (NKJV)
4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings[a] of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

Paul was a man in total submission to God. Yet he says he went naked, hungry, and homeless.

1 Corinthians 4

11 To this present hour we are both hungry and thirsty, and are poorly clothed, and are roughly treated, and are homeless;

Yes God will prosper some financially. But we can't that's a once sized fits all suit for all Christians. And for those who are financially rich we're told...

17 Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. 18 Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good [m]works, to be generous and ready to share, 19 storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.

Now there are those who have a nice sleight of hand game where they'll discuss God prospering us in all things, and that we need to use that to help others. If this point was just left without their sleight of hand rhetorical additions, they would have a point.

Unfortunately you need to watch their rhetoric closely, because they will do a very sly sleight of hand, where they actually do say we're all supposed to be rich with many, many material blessings.

I have a sister who has fallen prey to this prosperity gospel. It is sad that some seek their reward here, instead of the place where it counts eternally. It is also sad that they live above their means, all the while saying, "God wants us to be rich". But then, one must ask thier self's if what they have is what God intended for them to have and no more. How unbecoming it is to worship God for finanicial gain.

Sorry for any misspelling, don't have spell check here at work.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#48
The bible teaches that Christians will go through tribulation and will be hated for our faith. I actually believe that the bible speaks of 2 tribulations.

The first Tribulations, the Great Tribulation, was in the time of the 1st century Christians who were being persecuted for their faith by Jewish religious zealots and the Roman empire...GOSH, where was the WOF back then?

John spoke as if he was in the tribulation, Revelation 1:9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Notice that John also states he is in the kingdom!

Matthew 24 (I believe Matt. 24:1-34 has already happened and is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70AD)
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

Now why would Jesus tell us to get down from our house tops if he was speaking to us in the 21st century? We don't live on our house tops today. But they did back then!

The other tribulation, I call a general tribulation, I believe the bible speaks of this tribulation in that all Christians will face tribulation from Christ to His second coming. For example:
1 Thessalonians 3:4-5,
4 For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know. 5 For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.


and John 16:33
33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”


Through out the NT there seems to a theme of endurance that Christians should take note of. I believe God will protect us from His Wrath upon His destruction of the world, but not the trails and tribulations we face in this fallen world. And I do believe the 7 year tribulation a farce, no offense to those who believe it.



Ok now I must take cover and await all the arrows that will be flung in my direction ------> ------> (((((((me)))))))
 

Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
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#49
The WoF and the prosperity gospel are not synonymous. The WoF is about what biblical faith is, how it works, God's will in healing and prosperity, confession, the authority we have in the name of Jesus ...etc. Some have taken the part about prosperity and taken it to excess and have done harm to the movement. Jesus never made anybody rich in the Bible, but He did heal people. The apostles never made anybody into a millionaire when they preached the gospel, but they did bring healing. This doesn't mean that God doesn't desire to bless His children, but it does mean that financial prosperity isn't part of the gospel in the way that physical healing is.
 
Sep 14, 2017
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#51
The WoF and the prosperity gospel are not synonymous. The WoF is about what biblical faith is, how it works, God's will in healing and prosperity, confession, the authority we have in the name of Jesus ...etc. Some have taken the part about prosperity and taken it to excess and have done harm to the movement. Jesus never made anybody rich in the Bible, but He did heal people. The apostles never made anybody into a millionaire when they preached the gospel, but they did bring healing. This doesn't mean that God doesn't desire to bless His children, but it does mean that financial prosperity isn't part of the gospel in the way that physical healing is.
Sorry, sir, but I can't agree with that.

Is there a reason you opened up a 6 yr old thread to say this?
 

Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
167
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#52
It came up in a search and I commented. If there's an expiration date on the thread I didn't see it.
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,917
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#53
The WoF and the prosperity gospel are not synonymous. The WoF is about what biblical faith is, how it works, God's will in healing and prosperity, confession, the authority we have in the name of Jesus ...etc. Some have taken the part about prosperity and taken it to excess and have done harm to the movement. Jesus never made anybody rich in the Bible, but He did heal people. The apostles never made anybody into a millionaire when they preached the gospel, but they did bring healing. This doesn't mean that God doesn't desire to bless His children, but it does mean that financial prosperity isn't part of the gospel in the way that physical healing is.
Abraham. He made Abraham rich. Probably all the patriarchs too. Read the blessings.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#54
.......wait............WHUT?

YOU MEAN I AIN'T GETTING MY NEW BEEMER AND MY NEW MILLION DOLLAR HOME ON KEY WEST, AND THAT SWEET BAYWATCH BABE FOR A WIFE?

BUT, BUT, I NAMED IT AND CLAIMED IT!

'course, I also named and claimed T.D. Jakes private Jet, and Rolex watch.......still waiting to get them......

.............snap...........
 

Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
167
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#55
"Name it and claim it" is what WoF opponents call WoF theology. The WoF doesn't teach that you can just get anything you want by saying it. It teaches that we can exercise biblical faith for anything that God's Word shows us is His will for us.
.......wait............WHUT?

YOU MEAN I AIN'T GETTING MY NEW BEEMER AND MY NEW MILLION DOLLAR HOME ON KEY WEST, AND THAT SWEET BAYWATCH BABE FOR A WIFE?

BUT, BUT, I NAMED IT AND CLAIMED IT!

'course, I also named and claimed T.D. Jakes private Jet, and Rolex watch.......still waiting to get them......

.............snap...........
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,366
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#56
The church of today is woefully ignorant, naive, gullible, simple minded, and too trusting of those above them in the church.
The church is in such a sad state, to think that WOF is evil, and sicknesses and diseases are good, even a blessing from God.
How sad!
Know it or not, both Paul and the apostles taught WOF to the early church. This is what they preached. And at the same time, Paul said, if anyone comes preaching another gospel, other than the one they first received, let them be accursed. And yet the mainline churches of today preach another gospel, even calling WOF, of the devil or a doctrine of devils.
If WOF is evil, then you used the evil word of God to get saved, because not only is WOF a truth and of God, it is necessary for salvation. Words of faith and works of faith go hand in hand, when it comes to receiving from God. Salvation is just a small part of that receiving.
I can understand those who don't study the bible or understand what is written, they are just following their blind guides, I mean pastors and teachers of their church, but what can we say about those who teach such a heresy? How can one even justify calling themselves a Christian?
Again, this is why I question so many people's salvation. They can't even receive this simple truth in God's word.
Those who are not of God, will not be able to hear or receive this truth from God's word.
WOF is one of the essences of the gospel. Without it, there is no gospel of Jesus Christ.
And yet the teachers continue to propagate this destructive lie.
This is sad, it is a very sad thing to see.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
160
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#57
The church of today is woefully ignorant, naive, gullible, simple minded, and too trusting of those above them in the church.
The church is in such a sad state, to think that WOF is evil, and sicknesses and diseases are good, even a blessing from God.
How sad!
Know it or not, both Paul and the apostles taught WOF to the early church. This is what they preached. And at the same time, Paul said, if anyone comes preaching another gospel, other than the one they first received, let them be accursed. And yet the mainline churches of today preach another gospel, even calling WOF, of the devil or a doctrine of devils.
If WOF is evil, then you used the evil word of God to get saved, because not only is WOF a truth and of God, it is necessary for salvation. Words of faith and works of faith go hand in hand, when it comes to receiving from God. Salvation is just a small part of that receiving.
I can understand those who don't study the bible or understand what is written, they are just following their blind guides, I mean pastors and teachers of their church, but what can we say about those who teach such a heresy? How can one even justify calling themselves a Christian?
Again, this is why I question so many people's salvation. They can't even receive this simple truth in God's word.
Those who are not of God, will not be able to hear or receive this truth from God's word.
WOF is one of the essences of the gospel. Without it, there is no gospel of Jesus Christ.
And yet the teachers continue to propagate this destructive lie.
This is sad, it is a very sad thing to see.
I understand your frustration and I agree with your post. I didn't even grow up in a word of faith type of church.,quite the contrary., I was raised in a very fundamental Baptist church called the GARBC. (general association of regular baptist churches)

What many here mean when they are calling out other Christians to be "word of faith" is simply not what "word of faith" means in all cases. There are many off shoots of certain Christian denominations like the Baptists and the Methodists and the Protestants and so on. To condemn these denominational names as all being and meaning the same because some of the off shoots did something wrong would be ludicrous. But it's done every day here on these forums.

Sad to say many here use the title of "word of faith" to mean evil. It reminds me of what the secular news people do with words like "racist" or "sexual abuse" All they need to do is attach that name to someone and even if they are not racist they have been labeled and it sticks. All they have to be is labeled and their careers are doomed and their good names are smeared.

People do this all the time by labeling others. Labeling others is a serious sin because it's gossip. It takes "words" and misconstrues the truth in the "word" that is already misunderstood. Then when they label another., they give themselves permission to discredit and malign people. This is gossip and it takes the power of "words" and harms others just as the Bible says. The tongue is a small member but it has the power to set stuff on fire in hell. (my paraphrase)

If anything., we should watch our "words"


(side note)
The Bible has tons of verses with "word" in it. Just check out a concordance. Here is only a few "word of" verses.
Romans 10:8; 1 Cor.12:8; 2 Cor.5:19; 6:7....
But what does it say? The Word (God’s message in Christ) is near you, on your lips and in your heart; that is, the Word (the message, the basis and object) of faith which we preach,

[SUP]8 [/SUP]To one is given in and through the [Holy] Spirit [the power to speak] a message of wisdom, and to another [the power to express] a word of knowledge and understanding according to the same [Holy] Spirit;


[SUP]8 [/SUP]To one is given in and through the [Holy] Spirit [the power to speak] a message of wisdom, and to another [the power to express] a word of knowledge and understanding according to the same [Holy] Spirit;
[SUP]
9 [/SUP]To another [[SUP][a][/SUP]wonder-working] faith by the same [Holy] Spirit, to another the extraordinary powers of healing by the one Spirit;
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]To another the working of miracles, to another prophetic insight ([SUP][b][/SUP]the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose); to another the ability to discern and distinguish between [the utterances of true] spirits [and false ones], to another various kinds of [unknown] tongues, to another the ability to interpret [such] tongues.
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]All these [gifts, achievements, abilities] are inspired and brought to pass by one and the same [Holy] Spirit, Who apportions to each person individually [exactly] as He chooses.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]For just as the body is a unity and yet has many parts, and all the parts, though many, form [only] one body, so it is with Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

NAS
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit:

[SUP]19 [/SUP]to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having [SUP][a][/SUP]committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


[SUP]7 [/SUP]in the word of truth, in the power of God; [SUP][a][/SUP]by the armor of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
9,963
791
113
#58
The church of today is woefully ignorant, naive, gullible, simple minded, and too trusting of those above them in the church.
The church is in such a sad state, to think that WOF is evil, and sicknesses and diseases are good, even a blessing from God.
How sad!
Know it or not, both Paul and the apostles taught WOF to the early church. This is what they preached. And at the same time, Paul said, if anyone comes preaching another gospel, other than the one they first received, let them be accursed. And yet the mainline churches of today preach another gospel, even calling WOF, of the devil or a doctrine of devils.
If WOF is evil, then you used the evil word of God to get saved, because not only is WOF a truth and of God, it is necessary for salvation. Words of faith and works of faith go hand in hand, when it comes to receiving from God. Salvation is just a small part of that receiving.
I can understand those who don't study the bible or understand what is written, they are just following their blind guides, I mean pastors and teachers of their church, but what can we say about those who teach such a heresy? How can one even justify calling themselves a Christian?
Again, this is why I question so many people's salvation. They can't even receive this simple truth in God's word.
Those who are not of God, will not be able to hear or receive this truth from God's word.
WOF is one of the essences of the gospel. Without it, there is no gospel of Jesus Christ.
And yet the teachers continue to propagate this destructive lie.
This is sad, it is a very sad thing to see.

Word of Faith is the lie. It is the lie that killed my friend, who got breast cancer, and instead of getting chemo, claimed healing, along with her church, and Kenneth Copeland’s ministry, whom she was ordained under.

It is a noxious and utterly untrue scenerio, whereby people who are greedy, needy and ignorant of the Bible get fleeced by evil, lying mega church pastors and evangelists. If you want to read some posts which I wrote last year, on why Word of Faith is not scriptural, then click on this link and enjoy. Might as well look at a thread from 2016, as from 2012.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/144809-word-faith-look-what-bible-says.html
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
160
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#59
​And Jesus said "Love one another as I have loved you"
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,366
25
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#60
Word of Faith is the lie. It is the lie that killed my friend, who got breast cancer, and instead of getting chemo, claimed healing, along with her church, and Kenneth Copeland’s ministry, whom she was ordained under.

It is a noxious and utterly untrue scenerio, whereby people who are greedy, needy and ignorant of the Bible get fleeced by evil, lying mega church pastors and evangelists. If you want to read some posts which I wrote last year, on why Word of Faith is not scriptural, then click on this link and enjoy. Might as well look at a thread from 2016, as from 2012.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/144809-word-faith-look-what-bible-says.html
I am well aware of what others have done with the doctrine, about the same as what others have done with other doctrines, such as the doctrine of healing and divine health, but the doctrine isn't about how others have abused it, it's about the truth of what is written in the scriptures.
Is it a scriptural truth or not? Is it a lie of the devil or a truth of God?
You say not, but what is written?
Unlike you, I'm not basing what I believe on other's experiences/testimonies. How can I have faith in God with that. If I were to listen to what you and others say about what is of God and what isn't, instead of believing what is written, I would have an evil heart of unbelief as well.
As I have said before, I say again, I cannot not know or unlearn what I KNOW about what faith is and how it works.
But to set the record straight, WOF can be for evil as well as for good. It can be for blessing or cursing. Most use it to their own detriment though. It is a law set in motion and forever establish in heaven and it does work, Jesus proved that.
One of the biggest problems I see is people thinking they have faith, when they are hoping or wishing. Many don't seem to even know they are hoping, while still calling it faith.
Sorry about both your friend and my mother who died TRYING to believe for their healing. Trying just doesn't cut it.
There are many things people don't know about faith simply because they have rejected knowledge, the very reason why God's people are destroyed. They don't what to know because they were told it's evil from people like you.
I can tell you that you have no scripture to back up your claim that word of faith is a lie, yet you still choose to believe that it is. You might want to check WHY you choose to believe something that has absolutely NO scripture that say otherwise.
You say you believe the bible, but what you said in your post proves contrary. You believe ONLY what you choose to believe, NOT what is written.
Jesus said if you deny me (the truth/word/promises of God) before men, I will deny [what] you [ask for] before my Father and the angels in heaven.
Again, it is a sad thing to see, so many believing WOF is a lie, evil, and of the devil. Really sad.
I said many Christians are simple mind people, because of the things they fall for.
One of the things lawyer and politicians are good at is making a pimple or blemish look like a mountain, then building the whole person's character off this blemish. And by listening to this long and drawn out focus on this tiny blemish, they cause those listen to see this picture of the person they have painted, not as they truly are. So now it's not about evidence, but about the character of the person, based solely on this single minuscule blemish.
It is similar to the evolutionist building an entire prehistoric man or ape from a single tooth. And yes, they really did do that.
Stop looking at the pictures others have painted about WOF, and start looking at the evidence in the scriptures, after you seek and ask God what the truth is. This I know you did not do.
And just to set another record straight again, WOF is not about health, wealth, and getting things, it's about speaking and acting on what you believe in your heart without any doubt.
As I have stated many time in the past, many people unwittingly use it against themselves and their loved ones to their own detriment. Many times their own words of faith caused sickness to come on a loved one.
What did you do when you or a loved one felt pain in your body? What did you do when a doctor told you or a loved one that they had some sickness or disease, because the tests came back and proved it to be so?
You believe what you felt and/or where told, accepted it as fact, and then you acted on that info by seeking a natural cure or treatment. You just put both your own words of faith and works of faith in motion against yourself or loved one.
Didn't have anything to do with wealth, money, or things, did it?
If you believed what was written, or the true gospel, you would have rejected that evil report as a lie of the devil and started tanking God for your good health and cursing the lie and work of the devil, with the word of God, to destroy it.
And if you don't quit until it manifests, it will. That is, if you believe what is written over what others are saying.