WORD OF FAITH., PROSPERITY GOSPEL????

[Joidevivre]

Don't you sometimes know it is not God's will for you when you receive no "signs following" or confirmation? Having so many years in hospice work, I saw many faith-filled people who actually believed they would be healed while on earth, only to have their symptoms get worse. It made me wonder if when we see no confirmations, we should be changing our prayers.

Could we be praying amiss? To those people who would not let go of their claim to earthly healing, they could have been praying entirely differently - like in the direction of how to prepare for their death emotionally, and how they could best minister to their families during that time.

Before my work, I was one that took God completely at His word for health - and would say that I still lean that way - but life happens and it sort of balances you a little. People do die, and even the best of Christians have lingering illnesses where they can then experience the reality of God's strength overcoming weakness - when all of a sudden health is not the important thing. When they are given the grace to endure and knows it's power.

For years, I prayed for my very high cholesterol to be brought down when I could not take the drugs. Nothing happened and I really believed in perfect healing for that. Had total faith. Nothing happened. Then one day, I felt the Lord directing me to pray differently. To pray that my arteries would be able to handle that high level. Well.... that was 40 years ago, and I"m still way over what I should be, but I'm still living. And very healthily. Made me wonder if the Lord wanted me to see that we could live a long life with various illnesses without healing them. That we are sometimes praying away the diagnosis when it should not be that important?

I have other things for which I am waiting on healing, but no confirmations yet. So, now I pray for strength and health to do what He purposes me to do with my life.

I don't have the answers - just wondering.... Maybe it just isn't that simple.

 

[dcontroversal]

Don't you sometimes know it is not God's will for you when you receive no "signs following" or confirmation? Having so many years in hospice work, I saw many faith-filled people who actually believed they would be healed while on earth, only to have their symptoms get worse. It made me wonder if when we see no confirmations, we should be changing our prayers.

Could we be praying amiss? To those people who would not let go of their claim to earthly healing, they could have been praying entirely differently - like in the direction of how to prepare for their death emotionally, and how they could best minister to their families during that time.

Before my work, I was one that took God completely at His word for health - and would say that I still lean that way - but life happens and it sort of balances you a little. People do die, and even the best of Christians have lingering illnesses where they can then experience the reality of God's strength overcoming weakness - when all of a sudden health is not the important thing. When they are given the grace to endure and knows it's power.

For years, I prayed for my very high cholesterol to be brought down when I could not take the drugs. Nothing happened and I really believed in perfect healing for that. Had total faith. Nothing happened. Then one day, I felt the Lord directing me to pray differently. To pray that my arteries would be able to handle that high level. Well.... that was 40 years ago, and I"m still way over what I should be, but I'm still living. And very healthily. Made me wonder if the Lord wanted me to see that we could live a long life with various illnesses without healing them. That we are sometimes praying away the diagnosis when it should not be that important?

I have other things for which I am waiting on healing, but no confirmations yet. So, now I pray for strength and health to do what He purposes me to do with my life.

I don't have the answers - just wondering.... Maybe it just isn't that simple.

I have thought this for some time....what if it is God's will for a sick person to die and come home and we continually pray for them to get better? Is that praying against the will of God? A friend of mine recently died from cancer and I had prayed that God would heal him...after his symptoms got worse and it looked grim I prayed for God to take him early so as not to suffer...four days later he passed in peace, no pain and surrounded by family......Sometimes we should just pray for the will of the Lord to be done it seems, rather than a specific prayer that may be against the will of God.......I am sure I will hear it on this view......!

 

[Ariel82]

LadyLynn, I didn't read the responses but I agree wholeheartedly with your OP. God gives us not the spirit of fear but of the Spirit of love and a sound mind.

Often Satan beats up God's children and tries to turn them from His Truth by making word association with false doctrine. It is like a trigger for an abused child that reminds them of their abuse. Out of love and respect for their wounds, I suggest using other words to talk about God's love and promises. His words concerning faith and prosperity are in the Bible and if used correctly are great blessings.

I praise God for His peace and love that has given you strength and courage to leave the prison of your house to share His love with world. It truly is an inspiring testimony. Remember without "test" there would be no testimony.

God bless and keep you sister. In prayer for all who visit CC and speak upon God's Holy words.

Here are two of my favorite Bible verses:

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

(PS Ugly some people have vision problems and like big words to aid in that.)

 

[psychomom]

I have thought this for some time....what if it is God's will for a sick person to die and come home and we continually pray for them to get better? Is that praying against the will of God? A friend of mine recently died from cancer and I had prayed that God would heal him...after his symptoms got worse and it looked grim I prayed for God to take him early so as not to suffer...four days later he passed in peace, no pain and surrounded by family......Sometimes we should just pray for the will of the Lord to be done it seems, rather than a specific prayer that may be against the will of God.......I am sure I will hear it on this view......!

D, there are times i'm praying for someone, and it's like the Holy Spirit pulls me up short
saying, no, child, no. not that way.

and times i'm praying, and it seems all wrong...
so you've heard it...i agree with you! ♥

 

[Joidevivre]

Yet, for all those times I'm pulled up short and hear a "no", I've felt the anointing for healing just flow through my hands for someone else. It is all in His will for each person. Truly, it is in just following the lead of the Spirit.

 

[skipp]

I have thought this for some time....what if it is God's will for a sick person to die and come home and we continually pray for them to get better? Is that praying against the will of God? A friend of mine recently died from cancer and I had prayed that God would heal him...after his symptoms got worse and it looked grim I prayed for God to take him early so as not to suffer...four days later he passed in peace, no pain and surrounded by family......Sometimes we should just pray for the will of the Lord to be done it seems, rather than a specific prayer that may be against the will of God.......I am sure I will hear it on this view......!

This is very wise and I think there's a lot of truth to it. We forget that our will and the Lord's do not always match up.

 

[ladylynn]

To the OP

When you say "prosperity gospel" which is generally associated with the "word of faith" movements are you talking about the "name it and claim it" theology of those like Kenneth Copland or Joyce Meyers?

I have not heard Kenneth Copland but have heard listened to Joyce Meyers. I do not speak in tongues and am not in 100% agreement with everything any ONE Christian says but can respect and glean from them. As you can see in this thread, you have only to use the words "prosperity" and "word of faith" and you are labeled and dismissed. Being dismissed is awful and far too many Christians engage in such behavior to their own detriment.

 

[ladylynn]

In regards to the prosperity Gospel and the name it and claim it bunch:

You do not even see how wrong your words are ... name it claim it - bunch -
Is that me? Who are these bunches of people??? Do they merit any consideration on your part?



Well, 1 Timothy 6 says that there are those who think Godliness is gain. The man of God is supposed to flee in coveting after riches. Our thoughts are not God's thoughts. The Lord our God is not a magical genie nor is He like a Coke machine where you put your quarter in so as to expect something immediately in return. We are to glorify Jesus Christ His way and not our own way.





You have assumed wrongly that anyone who CLAIMS God's Word is out for gain., is coveting after riches and self glory. You don't know this "bunch" as you call them yet you wrongly accuse all of them that they think Jesus died on the cross to secure a "magical genie" or a "Coke machine" religion.

Trusting in the finished work of Christ is glorifying to Him. Taking Him at His word is pleasing to the Father and He says in His Word "without faith it is impossible to please God"

Stepping out in faith is what we are called to do and it is honored by God in our lives. He rewards such faith., that is biblical.


There is a joy and peace in Christ without the external things of this world. Fellowship is a part of that joy. But it is not about stuff or getting what you want.

I am not home right now so I don't have my concordance with me but I am thinking of the Bible verse that says - Which one of you fathers would give your son a snake when he asks for a fish? If you being evil know how to give good gifts how much more your Father in heaven?

Joy and peace are not only for our lives in heaven but for the here and NOW when we surely need it in this time on earth. The good fight of faith is fought right now., faith is the action we are called to take now, not later. The promises are for us now as we are engaged in the battle. We fight from a place of victory. Our job is to believe that when Jesus took our sin and it's judgement He secured for us Son-ship. That is where it begins and ends for the believer. Know who you are IN Christ., The works we do are from a heart of faith in what Jesus has already secured for us. Without Him we can do nothing. With Him we can do all things. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Grab a hold of that promise and RUN with it.

And I do remember there are verses in the Bible that speak of how in living a godly life there is much gain., Our Father is a generous and giving Father that longs to give and give and give some more. The problem I had and see many Christians have is they do not know how to take freely. They don't believe God is that wonderful. Instead they look around at the world and it's devastation and give weight to it rather than the promises of God. Eve doubted God's goodness and generosity when she believed the lie of the devil. That somehow God didn't really have her best interests in mind and was withholding something good. She didn't believe God loved her that much., So she and her husband Adam fell big time and we have had to deal with it ever since. Jesus came and re-claimed what Adam forfeited. He secured the victory for us. We are called to daily take the ground already won.

 

[posthuman]

Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
(James 1:2-4)

 

[ladylynn]

The death of His saints is precious in His sight but the death of the wicked is not so.

The is joy in death for the saint of God. There is always mourning for the death of the wicked.

There is Spiritual joy and earthly carnal joy. The latter is fleeting and only that joy we have in Christ is eternal. Eternal joy is not of this earth but of the Lord.

Paul said I know how to abound and how to be abased yet in all I glorify God.

Christians ought to rejoice in the Lord no matter their circumstances.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I have come to find out that God is the God of the living not the dead. All this talk of death and joy in death.... mourning the death.....????

We are called to live in Christ NOW., to be in joy NOW. We are called to live the abundant life NOW because we have Jesus NOW. It's that simple and that wonderful. It's not carnal to love Jesus NOW and to trust Jesus NOW and to live for Him NOW. That joy is never fleeting or temporal. Eternal joy is now because we have eternal life NOW. We have the Holy Spirit now and by faith we can run and not be weary even now. We are called to trust in the things that are not seen that is our calling.

 

[posthuman]

here also is the prosperity of the righteous & blessing of heaven:

Better is a dry crust of bread where there is quietness than a house full of feasting with strife.
(Proverbs 17:1)

is it not the Prince of Peace that grants us quietness?

Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
(Philippians 4:6-7)

 

[posthuman]

Blessed are the poor in spirit:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:3)

 

[ladylynn]

Do you believe in the Prosperity Gospel and or in the belief that you can name it and claim it?

The more I read what many of you have posted about prosperity, the more I see you have no idea what it really means. Nor do you understand what motivates other Christians who trust that God will take care of them regardless of their circumstances., although sadly you think you do know what motivates them and you condemn them for your ideas not theirs because you don't even know their true convictions.,how crazy is that??

 

[posthuman]

The more I read what many of you have posted about prosperity, the more I see you have no idea what it really means. Nor do you understand what motivates other Christians who trust that God will take care of them regardless of their circumstances., although sadly you think you do know what motivates them and you condemn them for your ideas not theirs because you don't even know their true convictions.,how crazy is that??

i must say that i don't see any reason for us to wait till He returns before we have joy and thank Him! and he certainly does bless us now, abundantly, as we walk in Him & even His chastisement is mercy - truly 'all things work together for our good'

but our God does not bless as the world blesses.

Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives.
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
(John 14:27)

 

[psychomom]

Blessed are the poor in spirit:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:3)

post, as my 19 yo daughter would say, you are just crushing it! lol

i have to admit, i'm leery of this stuff.
we do a tiny bit of work with Voice of the Martyrs, and Compassion...

there are so many of God's people around the world who are truly suffering right now.
i don't mean the American view of suffering...(we only have one car... )

sometimes i think we westerners could use a good primer on current events.

 

[Tintin]

Frankly, I'm a bit confused by the Word of Faith movement. Are there doctrinal differences between churches that belong? Because I've heard about the false beliefs coming from Word of Faith (name it, claim it, God has to act), but not all Word of Faith churches seem to have these beliefs. Some Word of Faith churches, for example, just pray with great faith and expectation. They pray with the belief that God will act (what that looks like depends on Him) but they also believe He can't be controlled and will do His own thing (that He is sovereign). Can someone please enlighten me? Thanks.

 

[elf3]

I can't write my story right now but some of you know it.

Please just know above and beyond everything that our God is Sovereign. Our God has our best interest at heart. God created us to Glorify Him. No matter what, let's give God the honor He deserves and glorify Him in all we do so the whole world will know that He is GOD!!!

Yes bring your cares and worries before Him. Let Him know your hopes and disappointments. But if God says yes no maybe or wait don't let anyone tell you that your praying wrong or you don't have enough faith. Honor God in your prayers and He will honor you in heaven, Not this little spinning thing we live on now.

 

[popeye]

I am not home right now so I don't have my concordance with me but I am thinking of the Bible verse that says - Which one of you fathers would give your son a snake when he asks for a fish? If you being evil know how to give good gifts how much more your Father in heaven?

When I read your op this is the verse that jumped in my spirit. WOF had it's hay day. Kenneth hagin was a strong man of God. His followers took the revelation and made a mess. Prosperity can be a blessing or a curse. A blessing to those that are not corrupted by abundance and wealth.A curse to those that will shipwreck on reckless choices accompanying wealth.
In a nutshell WOF became error by emphasis. Wealth,wealth building is a distraction and a trap.WOF is not the devil,nor are the verses in the word that are used.
The earth's economy is the economy of lack.
Heaven's economy is the economy of abundance,or,the absence of lack.
"give,and it will be given unto you good measure,shaken,and running over shall men give unto your bosom."

In the broad picture we see the ezcesses ,errors,abuses,of some "faith" minister and do the most natural thing a humanoid can do,we place a blanket indictment of not only the preachers but the bible itself. Now the "prosperity verses are bogeymen also.

Would like to see those that demonize the faith movement ask themselves "is it worth it to damage my own faith by stoning those that ventured into that territory?"

Smith Wigglesworth lived long before the faith movement and was in the healing ministry. He had somewhat of a 95% success rate with those he prayed for healing.
Faith is a calling,a knowledge and a revelation. Those that sit on the sidelines,have weak faith,and venture nothing,take no chances,and stone those trying are modern day pharisees.

God tells us saw off that limb you sit on. We say "OK" and start sawing opposite the trunk and leave a little bit for comfort.
God says "NO,NOT THERE,RIGHT UP AGAINST THE TREE" We say "no way God...I will fall"
The man of faith says nothing,he just starts sawing,because any word or anything that comes from his God is CORRECT.
IOW,he is too "stupid" to know NOT TO OBEY.
Make me "STUPID" God
Give me an even greater revelation.Help me to have courage to obey the command to raise the dead,open blind eyes,and ignore the chanting of brothers and sisters that would make me like them.

Praying for the sick.....nothing,they die or get worse
Invoking healing,taking from my Fathers stores......works every time.
Healing= removing the infirmity,comanding life,restoration to that area. We do what Jesus did. He handed us the mantle.
Healing=no problem=healed
Poverty=no problem=finances added
dead?=raise them from the dead.

If it aint true,then Jesus is not alive,because when JTB asked "are you the one or do we wait for another"?
Jesus said "Go tell John THE BLIND SEE,THE LAME WALK,THE LEAPERS ARE CLEANSED AND THE DEAD ARE RAISED"
IOW it was the MIRACLES that PROVED /VALIDATED Jesus was the messiah.

 

[popeye]

Blessed are the poor in spirit:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:3)

IOW the poorer you are the more blessed you are?

We can both go to your bank and I will take that filthy mammon off your hands.
This offer is good to every believer.
I CAN help you!! Think of it we can both get blessed.
Just kidding dude lighten up

 

[popeye]

..................... Some Word of Faith churches, for example, just pray with great faith and expectation. They pray with the belief that God will act (what that looks like depends on Him) but they also believe He can't be controlled and will do His own thing (that He is sovereign). Can someone please enlighten me? Thanks.

OK,I was in their churches, You WILL GET YOUR FAITH built up. That is a fact. However you will turn green with the emphasis on finances.IE they ask for money all the time. I would personally try and ignore it becz I wanted the faith ingredient. I ended up hating them and their message. I damaged my own faith. But then Jesus came and walked me through it.
Now I do not wonder about faith I KNOW it.But I will say what I know without blanketing lies about them.
Prosperity is in heaven,and earth.
Healing is in heaven,and earth.
Jesus commanded us to do his works as the apostles did "and many miracles were worked AT THE HANDS OF THE APOSTLES"