Working on the Sabbath Day?

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Jul 11, 2020
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James 2:14-26.....FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD!

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,453
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James 2:14-26.....FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD!
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that we are saved by works. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree. It takes a living faith to produce works, just as it takes a living tree to produce fruit. Something that is dead cannot produce anything. So James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
James further illustrates his point that faith without works is dead by comparing empty words of compassion without acts of compassion.

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Again, the kind of faith that produces no works at all is an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
We show our faith by our works, but we do not establish it. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Again, James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, (vs. 14) then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved/accounted as righteous based on the merits of his works when he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Yet Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.[/QUOTE] In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." That is the "sense" in which God was said to be "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith unite in a common interest around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (substantiated, evidenced) by works (James 2:14-26). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the kind of faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*
 
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pottersclay

Guest
Over the yrs I have seen many post on the Sabbath subject. Some have even said it's like kicking a dead horse😔.
I have to admit that with Beth's post it became very interesting again as "to tell you the truth"I have been unsettled with the subject.
Malemandan post are also very clear in the matter.
I commend both on their efforts to share God's word on there convictions.
No name calling, no twisting the truth, this is what it's suppose to be like as we reason with one another.
Looking forward to responses on the subject here as I stand in limbo in this matter.
( Limbo??? Hey there is a purgatory).😄😄😄😄😁😁😁
 

birdie

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
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"And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?" Apparently, the religious people thought healing was working and didn't allow it? This brings up the interesting point that God can work on the sabbath day. We find this in Exodus 31:13:"Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you" So this seems to be saying that We don't sanctify ourselves. It seems to be saying the God does all of the sanctifying, the saving. So God does ALL the work of saving the true believers while the true believers only rest in that sense. The true believers cannot by their own efforts save themselves. This brings up the interesting point: What does it mean to KEEP the sabbath? Does it mean to go to a building on a certain day of the week,o or does it mean to be saved by God's work alone while we cannot by our works save ourselves?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Over the yrs I have seen many post on the Sabbath subject. Some have even said it's like kicking a dead horse😔.
Yes it is like beating a dead horse. Over the years, I have been in discussions with multiple thoroughly indoctrinated SDA's on various Christian forums and the gospel they preach culminates in salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

Here are a couple of statements below made by SDA's which prove my point.

Under the "one gospel" preached in the OT even to Abraham Gal 3:8
"This IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
Ex 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus"

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

So salvation by faith "plus" commandment keeping (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment - keep the Sabbath day holy) sums up the gospel of the SDA church. Seventh-day Adventists also teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. - https://nonsda.org/study8.shtml
 
May 28, 2020
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Louisville, Ky
I have news for you. Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 - The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Seventh Day Adventist church teaches salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works, " which is more than a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)

See - https://www.exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/SabbathSunday/tabid/516/Default.aspx

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Galatians 2:16 - knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
 
May 28, 2020
75
33
18
Louisville, Ky
I have news for you. Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 - The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Seventh Day Adventist church teaches salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works, " which is more than a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)

See - https://www.exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/SabbathSunday/tabid/516/Default.aspx

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Galatians 2:16 - knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
I have news for you. Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 - The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Seventh Day Adventist church teaches salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works, " which is more than a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)

See - https://www.exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/SabbathSunday/tabid/516/Default.aspx

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Galatians 2:16 - knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Thank you for all the info and now I don't feel so bad about working on Sunday!
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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Beth are you a 7th day Adventist?
And? If? So? I hope no one here is an Seventh-day Adventist-aphobe. If so, there is a cure for that.

I find all of this thread, including pictures, on an Adventist site
Really? What's the site? Post it here please.

are you trying to convert people to your belief?
Only the Holy Ghost brings conversion. What Beth is doing is called 'sharing'.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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Beth are you a 7th day Adventist? I find all of this thread, including pictures, on an Adventist site

are you trying to convert people to your belief?
"Be not afraid", said Jesus. (Luke 12:4)

You might desire to consider whether you are being controlled by fear or by faith:

 
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lenna

Guest
If Beth is or is not a Seventh Day Adventist has nothing to do with understanding scripture. That has to do with one human judging another human. Beth is asking you to judge scripture, not her.
says the champion of confusing the old and new testaments

Beth is not asking anything. she is copy/pasting from 7th Day Adventist teaching and that is not what the Bible teaches

most folks here know that the 7th Day people started under Ellen G White and you can look up who that is and what she did

give it a rest with your Sabbath teaching already
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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Thank you for all the info and now I don't feel so bad about working on Sundays!!!
If Jesus is your example, as He is mine, then follow the pattern set down by Him. Prepare for the 7th day, rest on the 7th day and go back to work on the first day of the week (some might call Sunday, though not an exact match, as Bible its evening to evening (1-7 (Sabbath)) and Roman time (Sunday) is midnight to midnight).

1Pe_2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:​

Be like Jesus all day long, ahving "no plans" of your own, but follow the plan (pattern) set by Christ Jesus, as he best knows the Father's will for you:

 
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lenna

Guest
"Be not afraid", said Jesus. (Luke 12:4)

You might desire to consider whether you are being controlled by fear or by faith:

you Sabbath teachers build upon error

error upon error

it's a shame y'all don't have the same energy for the actual gospel

this is not a 7th Day site and not a Sabbath keeper site.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
929
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most folks here know that the 7th Day people started under Ellen G White
Not factual historically, and neither is the statement factual scripturally.

The original Person to sabbath the 7th day was God (Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11). Then also see:

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:​
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.​

The first "man" is Adam.

Then you can see many others long before Ellen G White who kept sabbath, the 7th day, including Patrick Of Ireland (that's right, 'St.' Patrick).

Another long before Ellen G White:

Thomas Tillam:

Doctrine - Sabbath - Thomas Tillam - The Seventh Day Sabbath Sought Out -1657

https://ia801900.us.archive.org/35/items/doctrine-sabbath-thomas-tillam-the-seventh-day-sabbath-sought-out-1657/Doctrine - Sabbath - Thomas Tillam - The Seventh Day Sabbath Sought Out -1657.pdf

You might consider reading some historical sources (first hand, just making a kindly suggestion, really).
 
Mar 28, 2016
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James 2:14-26.....FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD!

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
It is simply a impossibility to separate faith (the will) from the works, (the final product).

Just another one of those doctrines that God calls good as "one" Satan the author of confusion divides and call separate, His MO. No separation between faith and works.

If the loving commandment(not just a good suggestion) is not to have the faith of Christ, the power of God that works in the creatures in respect to ones own self, or any creature that we can see with our eyes. We should just do it without murmuring. What about me. .

If the opening commandment is not obeyed mankind has already committed blasphemy against the faith that works in us . Blaspheming the name or power of Christ by which we are called heaven ward .

James 2:1 King James Version (KJV) My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. (faithless)

The outcome of not obeying the loving commandment below.

James 2:7 King James Version (KJV) Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

The example of Christ working in Abraham and Rehab to both will and do the good pleasure of God.
Clearly the imputed faith of Christ is not of or from Abraham and Rehab. Then neither would we accredit the work or power of faith to the corrupted hands of mankind. Blasphemy.

James 2: 22-23 King James Version (KJV Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

No work of Christ's faithfulness working in us to both will and do his good pleasure no imputed righteousness.

Follow the power trail (faith) .Its right on the money .
 
L

lenna

Guest
Not factual historically, and neither is the statement factual scripturally.

The original Person to sabbath the 7th day was God (Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11). Then also see:

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:​
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.​

The first "man" is Adam.

Then you can see many others long before Ellen G White who kept sabbath, the 7th day, including Patrick Of Ireland (that's right, 'St.' Patrick).

Another long before Ellen G White:

Thomas Tillam:

Doctrine - Sabbath - Thomas Tillam - The Seventh Day Sabbath Sought Out -1657

https://ia801900.us.archive.org/35/items/doctrine-sabbath-thomas-tillam-the-seventh-day-sabbath-sought-out-1657/Doctrine - Sabbath - Thomas Tillam - The Seventh Day Sabbath Sought Out -1657.pdf

You might consider reading some historical sources (first hand, just making a kindly suggestion, really).
thanks

but I believe the actual gospel presented in the New Testament

you are free to indoctrinate yourself in error from now until you run out of copy/paste

I am disengaging posting to you. I've heard it all from you folks and like Solomon said, nothing new under the sun and like we say today, nothing to see here

tata
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
929
136
43
you Sabbath teachers build upon error
Personal aprioric opinion based in no substantial documented evidence in either history or scripture. It may be safely ignored.

error upon error
Personal aprioric opinion based in no substantial documented evidence in either history or scripture. It may be safely ignored. I have demonstrated from history and scripture the point.

it's a shame y'all don't have the same energy for the actual gospel
Like this:



this is not a 7th Day site
I noticed the blatant apostasy too.

and not a Sabbath keeper site.
Truly, the hypocrisy of the Christian which dares to deem one of God's eternal Ten Commandments should be neglected in it's specificity is truly something to behold.

These might help you and others (but they are only for the brave):




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwbJhNeJ93Q&list=PL0dfeFGyG7O-byXpLRrwyB1eQw9xZNLpP&index=13&t=0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs6tE3JSj7I&list=PL0dfeFGyG7O-byXpLRrwyB1eQw9xZNLpP&index=4&t=0s
 
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pottersclay

Guest
And the debate goes on.
Question is are we keeping it holy??? Or are we mucking it up causing division among the brothers.
Is it ok to recognize the Sabbath yet pick a different day to honor it?
Is it a sin to not practice it on the day the Lord chose.
Can we agree to disagree or is this a salvation issue. If the 7th day belief is correct then those who disagree have unrepentant sin in their practice.
If the Sunday issue is acceptable does that mean that the 7th day belief is in error.
Is this more important than saving money by choosing Geico for your auto insurance ( sorry just couldn't help myself). When will I learn😔😔
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
929
136
43
thanks

but I believe the actual gospel presented in the New Testament

you are free to indoctrinate yourself in error from now until you run out of copy/paste

I am disengaging posting to you. I've heard it all from you folks and like Solomon said, nothing new under the sun and like we say today, nothing to see here

tata
Hmmm, Solomon said:

Pro_28:1 The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.​